Degree before learning full-time

You can’t compare both sceanrios. The second guy’s father clearly paid for son’s education, the first one had to pay on his own. There are other factors to consider too. The second guy learned for ten years? Either he got help from parents or his wife had a great job. First guy didn’t have that.

Great post! There is a bit of a catch-22 in that some may not want to sit and learn again, and learning full time has countless benefits to a good Jewish home and the community. On the other hand, having a degree in an in-demand profession to earn good money has countless benefits to a good Jewish and the community. There should be the balance you suggest.

Now I’d like to tell you about another person I know. He insisted that his son get an education. He went to Israel for a year, then went to school. He was in yeshiva in the morning, then went to school in the evenings. He got a degree. After that, his father asked him, so, are you looking for a job? He said no, I’m going to sit and learn. I have the education so that when the time comes I can work. With that safety net, I’m ready to learn for a while.

This guy went on to sit in kollel for almost 10 years, and when he needed to support his family, he went and found a job almost immediately.

I see more of this than the other method, for those that end up going to college (or go to college part time before learning in EY for a few years). If they are in Kollel without anything, they end up never going to college (in my experience), or getting a BTL and law (with support).

I like scenario #2, however, that is very rare. Most guys go straight from college to working at least part time. Partly because it is harder to get a job with a 10year gap on your resume than fresh out of school in many fields. Most guys who do go to college first and then learn full time only do it for a few years.

I think the second scenario is a real rarity. I would say that it takes a very strong person to get out of the “college scene” and get back into yeshiva full-time. Since he stayed part-time, that might have been what kept it high on his priority list, but I think that most people, once they get involved in college, then they’re off to work because “what’s the point of having a degree if you’re not going to use it”. It takes a lot of yishuv hadaas to get back to kollel at that point. He deserves a lot of credit. I think it’s like people who I know who were in EY for a couple of years after getting married and decided they wanted to make a go of buying an apartment here and living here, but first went back to the States to work to make enough $ to have a nest egg when they got back. Most people would probably never make it back here after that, but I do know one couple that did. It wasn’t easy, but that was their goal together so they helped each other stay focused.

I also agree with the poster who said that it’s hard to imagine what kind of degree he had that it was so easy for him to get a job after he was in learning full-time for 10 years after getting the degree.

I’d like to see the guy get a job 10 years out of college. Good blazes luck with that.

Sounds like very reliable information. I knew one person…. I knew another person…. Seems to account for the thousands upon thousands of yechidim who are making Torasam Umnasam. I’m so surprised to hear this issue brought up I’ve never heard it discussed before and by a person who is proud modern orthodox. It must be that he understands how the yeshiva world works and he’s genuinely looking to make a change. We all appreciate your pure intentions But I’ll bet if you’ll search well in your own backyard you might just be able to find something you need to work on and not look to fix the problems of a world that you have no understanding of or connection to.

I have a close friend who was a “Teen at risk” back in the day. He dropped out of yeshiva, went to school, graduated and even got his CPA. By that time he was growing out of his adolescent rebellion, and settled down and married. Moved to Israel, learned in KOllel for 3 years and came back to the US. As he was licenssed, he was able to become employyed very quickly. I think it was more the license than the education. Just an education and a degree, and then several years of removal from the olam hamaaseh, it is difficult. But the license was a very tangible piece that made a very big difference.

I think one of the main reasons the yeshivos don’t encourage this is because once one is out in the world, and is to’em the ta’am of the world and everything in it, it is very difficult to “put the genie back in the bottle”. People will leave yeshiva, fully and realistically expecting to return, but after they are exposed to the velt, it never happens for many people.