Degree before learning full-time

Home Forums Decaffeinated Coffee Degree before learning full-time

Viewing 16 posts - 1 through 16 (of 16 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #600453

    Feif Un
    Participant

    A close friend of mine recently left kollel to go to school in order to be able to support his family.

    I was talking to him a few days ago, and he told me that while he doesn’t regret learning in kollel, he definitely has some problems with the system.

    While he was learning, he and his wife were making ends meet, but it was tight. He was getting a kollel check, and his wife was working full time. They are paying a few tuitions and a mortgage. Now that he’s in school, they aren’t getting a kollel check, and they are paying another tuition – one that is much higher than a yeshiva tuition.

    He asked the Rosh Yeshiva, how can the system leave people in such a situation? He has all these bills to pay, and no way to pay them. His wife is going crazy from having to work all hours just to barely make ends meet. She’s completely burned out. He has another 2 years before he can get a real job. The R”Y told him there is no answer, but told him, “Changes are coming.”

    Now I’d like to tell you about another person I know. He insisted that his son get an education. He went to Israel for a year, then went to school. He was in yeshiva in the morning, then went to school in the evenings. He got a degree. After that, his father asked him, so, are you looking for a job? He said no, I’m going to sit and learn. I have the education so that when the time comes I can work. With that safety net, I’m ready to learn for a while.

    This guy went on to sit in kollel for almost 10 years, and when he needed to support his family, he went and found a job almost immediately.

    Why can’t we encourage people to do this? Get an education first, to establish the safety net. That way, when the time comes, you don’t have to go crazy over how to support your family. You don’t have to pay tuition for college while you’re broke paying for your kids and a mortgage. You can go straight into the workforce.

    #825357

    flowers
    Participant

    You can’t compare both sceanrios. The second guy’s father clearly paid for son’s education, the first one had to pay on his own. There are other factors to consider too. The second guy learned for ten years? Either he got help from parents or his wife had a great job. First guy didn’t have that.

    #825358

    optimusprime
    Member

    If the Rabbonim do not support it, then it must not wrong. Perhaps the latter case you mentioned was under special circumstances, of which you were not told.

    #825359

    BTGuy
    Participant

    Great post! There is a bit of a catch-22 in that some may not want to sit and learn again, and learning full time has countless benefits to a good Jewish home and the community. On the other hand, having a degree in an in-demand profession to earn good money has countless benefits to a good Jewish and the community. There should be the balance you suggest.

    #825360

    Jothar
    Member

    I’m with Feif Un on this one. I went to college while in yeshiva, and had the degree when I needed it. Other friends of mine are staring at the financial abyss with no ability to go to college and take care of their family.

    The sad thing is I know someone who is out of yeshiva, insists it’s assur to go to college, and is not making much of a parnossah.

    #825361

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    Now I’d like to tell you about another person I know. He insisted that his son get an education. He went to Israel for a year, then went to school. He was in yeshiva in the morning, then went to school in the evenings. He got a degree. After that, his father asked him, so, are you looking for a job? He said no, I’m going to sit and learn. I have the education so that when the time comes I can work. With that safety net, I’m ready to learn for a while.

    This guy went on to sit in kollel for almost 10 years, and when he needed to support his family, he went and found a job almost immediately.

    I see more of this than the other method, for those that end up going to college (or go to college part time before learning in EY for a few years). If they are in Kollel without anything, they end up never going to college (in my experience), or getting a BTL and law (with support).

    #825362

    kako
    Participant

    I don’t think a degree that was obtained 10 years ago would help much in getting a job when he hasn’t been in the job market for that long and has 0 experience.

    #825363

    A Heimishe Mom
    Participant

    I like scenario #2, however, that is very rare. Most guys go straight from college to working at least part time. Partly because it is harder to get a job with a 10year gap on your resume than fresh out of school in many fields. Most guys who do go to college first and then learn full time only do it for a few years.

    #825364

    HaKatan
    Participant

    It really depends on the person. It takes work to go to college and still learn bihasmada, so I don’t think that decision is for everyone, necessarily, provided you are sure that with Hashem’s help you will work in some sort of klei kodesh job and/or you will take a BTL and go for a Master’s in Education afterwards, which will make you a suitable candidate for many jobs in the field with that credential. Sorry for the rambling sentence…

    #825365

    Nechomah
    Participant

    I think the second scenario is a real rarity. I would say that it takes a very strong person to get out of the “college scene” and get back into yeshiva full-time. Since he stayed part-time, that might have been what kept it high on his priority list, but I think that most people, once they get involved in college, then they’re off to work because “what’s the point of having a degree if you’re not going to use it”. It takes a lot of yishuv hadaas to get back to kollel at that point. He deserves a lot of credit. I think it’s like people who I know who were in EY for a couple of years after getting married and decided they wanted to make a go of buying an apartment here and living here, but first went back to the States to work to make enough $ to have a nest egg when they got back. Most people would probably never make it back here after that, but I do know one couple that did. It wasn’t easy, but that was their goal together so they helped each other stay focused.

    I also agree with the poster who said that it’s hard to imagine what kind of degree he had that it was so easy for him to get a job after he was in learning full-time for 10 years after getting the degree.

    #825366

    Josh31
    Participant

    Real Torah has to based upon Kosher Money.

    #825367

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I’d like to see the guy get a job 10 years out of college. Good blazes luck with that.

    #825368

    Toi
    Participant

    josh-kollel checks are kosher money. you just dont like them and have an agenda.

    #825369

    RabbiRabin
    Member

    Sounds like very reliable information. I knew one person…. I knew another person…. Seems to account for the thousands upon thousands of yechidim who are making Torasam Umnasam. I’m so surprised to hear this issue brought up I’ve never heard it discussed before and by a person who is proud modern orthodox. It must be that he understands how the yeshiva world works and he’s genuinely looking to make a change. We all appreciate your pure intentions But I’ll bet if you’ll search well in your own backyard you might just be able to find something you need to work on and not look to fix the problems of a world that you have no understanding of or connection to.

    #825370

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    I like scenario #2, however, that is very rare.

    I think the second scenario is a real rarity.

    I see it happen all the time. I guess it is different where I live.

    #825371

    midwesterner
    Participant

    I have a close friend who was a “Teen at risk” back in the day. He dropped out of yeshiva, went to school, graduated and even got his CPA. By that time he was growing out of his adolescent rebellion, and settled down and married. Moved to Israel, learned in KOllel for 3 years and came back to the US. As he was licenssed, he was able to become employyed very quickly. I think it was more the license than the education. Just an education and a degree, and then several years of removal from the olam hamaaseh, it is difficult. But the license was a very tangible piece that made a very big difference.

    I think one of the main reasons the yeshivos don’t encourage this is because once one is out in the world, and is to’em the ta’am of the world and everything in it, it is very difficult to “put the genie back in the bottle”. People will leave yeshiva, fully and realistically expecting to return, but after they are exposed to the velt, it never happens for many people.

Viewing 16 posts - 1 through 16 (of 16 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.