Diamond Wedding Rings

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  • #596209

    shlishi
    Member

    Is there any mekor for giving a diamond wedding ring (at the engagement or whenever), or is it just another bad habit we picked up from the goyim?

    From what I read, the De Beers diamond cartel popularized diamond wedding rings with their advertising motto of “diamonds are forever”. Before that, the vast majority of engagements/weddings, even by goyim, didn’t include a diamond ring.

    #763441

    Know.it.all
    Member

    truth is i couldn’t find any reason for this popular custom and its definitely not given at the chupah, but i guess a diamond is forever.

    or is it just another bad habit we picked up from the goyim?

    how about they picked up a good habit from us?

    #763442

    shlishi
    Member

    “truth is i couldn’t find any reason for this popular custom and its definitely not given at the chupah”

    “how about they picked up a good habit from us?”

    That appears contradictory. You’re saying there is no mekor. Then you’re saying the goyim picked it up from us. Since when have we been doing this “minhug”? Apparently since we picked it up from them, if there is no mekor.

    Did our zaida’s have this diamond giving engagement ring tradition 100 years ago and earlier?

    #763443

    eclipse
    Member

    Our elteh zaidas gave NOSE-RINGS.

    #763444

    always here
    Participant

    misleading, confusing title: not wedding ring–> diamond engagement ring.

    #763445

    smartcookie
    Member

    Who cares? I love my diamond ring!! 😉

    #763446

    shlishi
    Member

    In addition to the earlier issues, could there not be a chashash or sofek kiddushin by giving an engagement ring altogether?

    #763447

    ZachKessin
    Member

    the Idea that an engagement ring MUST be a diamond dates to the 1950’s or so and probably did start with DeBeers. If you want to give a Diamond ring by all means do so, but don’t think its some custom that has always been there, its modern.

    Oh and if possible find out where your Diamond came from. Some come from parts of Africa where they are mined by slave labor.

    #763448

    RABBAIM
    Participant

    1-And how much do you pay the cleaning lady here in NY?? How much better is that than slave wages?

    2- But now that it became the norm, NOT to give it shows disrespect unless you are part of the Kehilla which is using CZ for everyone.

    #763449

    apushatayid
    Participant

    Not sure about diamonds specifically, but a single diamond ring is hardly anything when compared to the camels laden with all sorts of jewlery we find eliezer bringing to rivka when doing a shidduch for yitzchak.

    The mishna in kiddushin regarding erusin is also pretty clear, kessef OR shava kessef. I don’t have the daf right now but in the sugya of “trichi shuma” there is a tosfos that discusses whether one should use precious stones for nissuin or not and concludes for nissuin a plain band is customary, nobody has to be a baki how much it is worth. Perhaps that is why the expensive stuff was reserved for the erusin (our engagement today _ is sort of the erusin of those days) where “bekiin bishuma” is not a factor. Just a guess. I’m sure the CR poskim will be out in full force a bit later to clarify for everyone.

    #763450

    walton157
    Member

    @zachkessin: You bring up an excellent point about African mined slave labor.

    If I may suggest, there is a book titled “Deluxe: How Luxury Lost Its Luster” by Dana Thomas. This is one of the best books I have ever read. I couldn’t put it down. It has changed the way I shop for clothing, pocketbooks and any other purchases I make.

    Thank you for bringing this important issue to light.

    #763451

    Darchei Noam
    Member

    Unfortunately there are other things too that we picked up from our surrounding foreign cultures.

    #763452

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    could there not be a chashash or sofek kiddushin by giving an engagement ring altogether?

    No, we’ve been over this.

    He knows he’s not giving the ring for kiddushin, she knows that she’s not accepting it for kiddushin and anyone viewing it knows that the ring is not for kiddushin because there’s going to be a proper kiddushin later.

    The Wolf

    #763453

    yogibooboo
    Member

    well lubavitch dont give the diamond ring till after the chuppah!

    #763454

    yenta.morph
    Member

    Many are careful that the Chohon’s mother or sister give the ring & other gifts, No Eidim etc to make it obvious it is not ??? ???????

    #763455

    eclipse
    Member

    Should I repeat my joke, or it’s just not funny?

    #763456

    Know.it.all
    Member

    Many are careful that the Chohon’s mother or sister give the ring & other gifts, No Eidim etc to make it obvious it is not ??? ???????

    for those that are makpid, some aren’t makpid on yichud and negiah.

    IM GLAD LUBAVITCH ONLY GIVES IT AFTER THE CHUPPAH 🙂

    #763457

    always here
    Participant

    altho’ it’s my son-in-law’s family’s custom to give the engagement ring after the chuppah (Lubavitch), my daughter wanted her ring earlier; come to think of it, her mother-in-law gave it to her @ the vort, after calling in my son-in-law from the men’s section.

    #763458

    shlishi
    Member

    know.it.all: I’d venture to say that those who are makpid are generally more makpid on the other issues as well.

    #763459

    yogibooboo
    Member

    KIA-is that sarcasm?

    #763460

    yogi, you got yours bef. your wedding!

    #763461

    mewho
    Participant

    i heard the diamond wedding band is given after the marriage is consumated

    #763462

    ZachKessin
    Member

    And how much do you pay the cleaning lady here in NY?? How much better is that than slave wages?

    Well it depends, are you holding a gun to your cleaning lady’s head? When I say slave labor I mean slave labor. As in people who don’t work get shot on the spot, not someone paid minimum wage to clean a house.

    And for the record we clean our own house.

    #763463

    shlishi
    Member

    Is there any mekor for a white wedding dress or a wedding veil?

    #763464

    Rivka wore a veil when she met Yitzchak….idk if thats the mekor but its sounds smart!! lol

    #763465

    rosesharon
    Member

    Nevermind

    #763466

    SJSinNYC
    Member

    shlishi, women wore white on Tu B’Av.

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