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i just saw this elsewhere here:
“bagels are hamotzi according to everyone because they are baked after being boiled.”
assuming (and not discussing)that it is assur to dip challah into hot soup on Shabbos, whatever circumstances you hold it takes to make it assur,
would bagels be mutar under the same circumstances?
the issue with challsh being that although there is no bishul acher bishul, there is bishul after baking (an improvement)
but bagels are already mvushal, challah is not.
but they are baked after boiling, does this negate the boiling?
Bagels are not fully cooked after boiling; the baking “completes” the bagel. Just go to your neighborhood bagel shop and ask for a boiled bagel, before it has been baked.
Bagels are not boiled long enough to actually cook them through – it’s probably not even the minimum shiur of being done a third of the way. Because of that, it would probably not be allowed.
In any case, if you use a tureen to serve the soup, it’s a non-issue, because the bowl is either a kli shlishi or revi’i (depending on the status of the ladle).
mod 80
work backwards, according to rav moshe z”tl why is it hamotzi?
ps i’m of the opinion ALL bread, rolls, bagels are hamotzi
I must have missed something, as bagels are only eaten on moztoi shabbos, so whats the problem with the hot soup? (sorry, I had nothing else to contribute, and this struck me as witty)
feif-un (Poster #3) has it right. By the time the soup reaches the plate, it is a “Kli shlishi” (Third vessel) and Challah being dipped is a non-issue. Let’s not look for more Chumros that have no basis in Halacha. The end result of these unnecessary and not thought through stringencies is that life becomes unbearable and some people will drop truly important parts of Religious observance that are integral to Halacha.
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