October 18, 2012 9:08 pm at 9:08 pm #932231shlishiMember
You complained of husbands who “work for years on end in dead end jobs that don’t bring home sufficient income to cover basic needs despite the wife working also. Men who independently choose to stay in their beloved carreer because they’re convinced that despite a decade or more of struggle and tears that their next dollar is just around the corner.”
That is not divorcable grounds. He is entitled to make that decision and if he chooses to continue working there, that is his decision whether she agrees with it or otherwise. She has to live with it.October 18, 2012 9:39 pm at 9:39 pm #932232OneOfManyParticipant
No biggee – she can just burn his supper.October 18, 2012 9:44 pm at 9:44 pm #932233mommamia22Participant
I’m not a vengeful person, but let me tell you, that kind of an attitude can make her a very miserable person to live with. He might very well wind up wishing for divorce in the end.
And we wonder why people leave yiddishkeit?!?
Sure, he can act like a jerk and there’s nothing she can do about it. She has no grounds for divorce.
Now, let’s all discuss the shidduch crisis.
Yeah, right.October 18, 2012 9:57 pm at 9:57 pm #932234shlishiMember
momma: Your recipe for disaster would have wives demanding divorces when their husbands can’t afford the jewelry they expect. These pathetic reasons for divorce are all too common and must be put an end to.
One: Burning his supper merely gives him grounds if he chose to exercise it. He could just as easily let it pass. (Should he so choose.)October 18, 2012 10:38 pm at 10:38 pm #932235The little I knowParticipant
I am once again astounded at the attitudes displayed in many of the comments here. Before we discuss halacha or secular law, let’s discuss this rare commodity called “morality”. While a woman must be divorced by her husband, it is immoral as **** to lock a woman into a marriage that is unviable. That said, each instance needs to be examined for its unique details. There are incompetent men and women. There are poorly functioning men and women. There are great men and women, and there are plainly nasty men and women. We will do ourselves, a couple, and the world a disservice by engaging in who is right or wrong, which is one common pitfall for those without professional training who undertake to work with a couple in trouble. If we cannot succeed in breaking down the barriers between them, leading them to get closer and create a bond, a stable parental unit for the home, then this marriage is beyond repair. The role of outside help is unique per case, and I will will get nauseated by the generalizations that tend to appear in these comments (all men …. or all women ….)
Now, having identified whether there is a moral responsibility to help a marriage or to end it, we know whether to refer them to a therapist or a beis din. The recalcitrant spouse who refuses to receive or give a get is a moral invalid. Sure, one must engage in the process to mediate a settlement, and the obstacles in this process are many. But the withholding of a get (giving or receiving) hostage in order to pressure the other to relinquish any of their rights is another violation of basic menchlichkeit. To assist either side to commit this immorality is beneath human dignity. Even a Rov or Dayan who participates in such behavior is sunscribing to anti-Torah values. Yes, I proclaimed the violator of ????? ???? ???? an incompetent, perhaps evil individual. Such cases are not common, but are also not rare, ?????????? ?????.
There is never a single cause for the failure of a marriage. But there can be many individuals who feed the problem and can cause much damage, ?’ ?????.October 18, 2012 10:56 pm at 10:56 pm #932236OneOfManyParticipant
That’s OneOfMany to you.October 19, 2012 12:08 am at 12:08 am #932237mommamia22Participant
I’m going to try a different stance. Seek first to understand, then to be understood:
Ok. So, what you and health are saying is that you find many women apply their superficial values to their lifestyles and marriages and when they can’t keep up with the Jones’ or have their foolish whims satisfied , they cry abuse and demand a divorce. Is that right?
I’m talking wives wanting divorce because of husbands who make unilateral decisions without consideration to their wives regarding choices that are life determining in a much more basic way (like the ability to pay basic bills). I am not talking about people leaving their spouses because of a depressed Economy that they have no control over (which just shows a lack of loyalty and maturity). I’m talking about the exact attitude you quoted here which is “I can do what I want and she has no say in the matter”. Why get married if you want to think Unilaterally?October 19, 2012 12:15 am at 12:15 am #932238HealthParticipant
mommamia22 -“Men who withhold money to get what they want.”
This I can see as a grounds for divorce, but I still think that therapy should be tried first.
“Men who work for years on end in dead end jobs that don’t bring home sufficient income to cover basic needs despite the wife working also. Men who independently choose to stay in their beloved carreer because they’re convinced that despite a decade or more of struggle and tears that their next dollar is just around the corner.”
Now this is not so clear cut. Is the man refusing to accept a better job? Perhaps he feels if he quits this one to look for another, he won’t find another one at all. And to look for another job while doing this one might be too difficult for him. This has to be judged up, each case individualy, by Marital Therapists. For any woman to declare, off the bat, without the therapist’s approval, that she has to divorce him, is both foolish and immature!February 25, 2013 6:02 pm at 6:02 pm #932239sam responsibleMember
The little I know – You are so right!!
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