Do American Jews care about Eretz Yisroel?

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  • #1917793
    techeles
    Participant

    Should American Jewry move to Israel after a Biden win?

    Should we wait for the Goyim to throw us out?

    Or should we just move to Canada?

    #1917812
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    The greater question should be should the Americans living in Israel leave? there will be a lot more pressure on the Israeli Government during the Biden administration then pressure on the American Jews with a GOP senate in control.

    #1917816
    opinionated-2
    Participant

    Of course! I wish I could make aliyah.
    We need Mashiach to come!

    #1917879
    yytz
    Participant

    Remember that the “Trump peace plan” involved putting pressure on Israel to approve a Palestinian state, which the Likud has been against for decades.

    Remember that the “peace deals” with Arab countries with which Israel was never at war (UAE, etc.) were only obtained at the price of canceling Netanyahu’s plan of annexing the West Bank, which would have been historic and game-changing.

    Remember that Sharon’s disengagement from Gaza, which was opposite to his political instincts and would not have happened without American pressure from a Republican president, GW Bush.

    Remember that Israel remained a strong country and dealt with its enemies appropriately more or less, even during the Obama years. Perhaps there was more pressure, but the US was always an ally, not an enemy.

    Trump was more sympathetic to Israel but there has still been inappropriate pressure. Things will change a bit with Biden but Israel still has the power to make the right decisions; they just need the guts.

    Regardless, our Neviim have often warned against putting our trust in geopolitical alliances, including particular countries or their leaders. Let’s trust in Hashem and daven that Israel makes the right decisions regardless of pressure.

    #1917883
    1
    Participant

    It’s not easy to get Canadian citizenship. They might be liberal in a lot of areas but immigrating there is not easy.

    #1917921
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Yes, we care at lot but not all of us share the same priorities. And no, we don’t think the goyim will be “throwing us out” of the U.S. anytime soon. As to Canada, they were planning to build their own version of the wall to keep out Americans seeking to escape another 4 years of the Trumpkopf.

    #1917920
    crazykanoiy
    Participant

    Chill Out. Stop with the hysterical nonsense. Canada is governed by the Liberal Party under Justin Trudeau. Canada is more liberal than Biden would ever make America. Canada is a great place to live with a very strong social safety net. Frum Jews live a very high quality of life in Canada and benefit from socialized medicine and child assistance payments. Stop believing the nonsense of right-wing pundits that liberals equal socialism and communism. Stop the nonsensical hate and name-calling. Focus on issues and stop labeling others. Stop painting the entire Democratic party as the party of AOC it’s a lie and not true. There are many blue dog centrist Democrats.

    #1917942
    KGN
    Participant

    I an moving to Israel regardless of who wins.

    #1917970
    charliehall
    Participant

    Actually Netanyahu has endorsed a Palestinian State on several occasions and the Trump peace plan provides for one. The last Israeli Prime Minister NOT to have endorsed a Palestinian State was Yitzhak Rabin of blessed memory, that is of blessed memory unless you are Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. 🙁

    #1917973
    charliehall
    Participant

    To answer your title question, I would have to say that for the most part the answer is either “no” or “not much”. Most Jews in America are very disconnected from both Eretz Yisrael and from Medinat Yisrael. And we Zionists aren’t very effective at countering this apathy.

    #1917971
    charliehall
    Participant

    “There are many blue dog centrist Democrats.”

    I am one of them. My frum community is full of them.

    #1917993
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    A large percentage of the MO tzibur outside of NYC metro area (and I suspect a modest percentage in NYC) are actually quite moderate in their politics although leaning Democratic. There are relatively few in the JStreet/AOC/Bernie wing of the party. This past election actually reinforced the moderate wing of the party since it is clear from election results around the country that there is little support for the most extreme progressive views and Republicans actually did much better then expected at the state level. Look at the results of several statewide referendums in California if you have any doubts.

    #1918020
    rational
    Participant

    Do American Jews care about Eretz Yisroel?

    Well, why should they? It’s not like it’s mentioned in the Torah at all.
    Oops…

    #1918104
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    Any Jew who cares about Israel should be as scared as heck of the Biden Administration, read the Black Lives Matter position on Israel, and Harris marches in lockstep with BLM.

    #1918117
    bk613
    Participant

    “Stop believing the nonsense of right-wing pundits that liberals equal socialism and communism.”
    “Stop painting the entire Democratic party as the party of AOC it’s a lie and not true”

    Among millennials YouGov currently ranked the most popular members of the Democrat party. The top 5 are:
    Obama
    Sanders
    Jimmy Carter
    AOC
    Warren
    (Joe Biden is #8)
    If filtered to include gen X and baby boomers: Sanders falls to # 3 and AOC to # 11 and Biden rises to # 4.
    I found similar results from several other polls so please excuse me if I don’t believe you.
    Millennials include people born from 1981-96, we are not talking about a bunch of 18 year old kids. Does it not concern you that they like Sanders and AOC more than they like Joe Biden? A large percentage of millennials voted for Biden with the intent of pushing him hard to the left.

    #1918132
    ZSK
    Participant

    In a word: No.

    #1918137
    young rechnitz
    Participant

    you people are clueless if you think that biden is going to be an even mildly good option for the jews you have not learned enough history. nearly everything that the dems have dove has been incredibly dirty and not in the benefit of anyone in the country let alone jews. the dems are okay with new york burning, with going against the constitution (2nd amendment) with lying and you people just buy it. where is your gemarah cup dont you understand this is not politics anymore it is a corrupt group of power hungry criminals trying to tear down our country and get elected in ANY WAY THEY CAN and your response is well trump is a meany i would not want him to be my morah. grow up and see what is really going on out there

    #1918234
    crazykanoiy
    Participant

    The one Democratic poll that matters is the Democratic primary which was won by one of the most centrist Democrats in the pack. The party chose Biden and did not follow the radical example set by the Republican party faithful. The Democratic party is large and diverse. As President-elect Biden said “The grim era of demonization ends now”

    #1918238
    crazykanoiy
    Participant

    It concerns me more to watch Republicans undermine Democracy and rile up passions with baseless claims of widespread fraud.

    #1918241
    crazykanoiy
    Participant

    Special call out to the many frum Jews in Teaneck who helped reelect centrist Democrat Josh Gottheimer a true friend of Israel and chairman of the bipartisan problem solvers caucus.

    Welcome! Thanks for popping in!

    #1918257
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    If some of the CR regulars would take time to review the election results at the state and local level, you will see that the Democratic vote was considerably stronger for moderate candidates and more conservative referendum positions than for far left candidates and policies. Major exception was in Washington D.C. where 92 percent voted for Biden but 86 percent also voted to legalize hallucinogenic mushrooms with a good hashgacha. (OK, maybe not with the hashgacha angle). In fairness, the D.C. mayor opposed the legalization.

    #1918267
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    @CrazyKano “The one Democratic poll that matters is the Democratic primary which was won by one of the most centrist Democrats in the pack ”
    Lets see, Bowman beat Engle, Jones replace Lowy, sadly I think your out of touch with reality.
    PS Josh Gottheimer race was rated safe Democratic from the onset, all of Teaneck could of voted for the other guy and he would have still won.

    #1918307
    motchah11
    Participant

    @youngrechnitz, Why do you point only to the Second Amendment? Democrats are pretty rough against the First Amendment too. They have fought against religious expression & free speech in many cases — as longs as it’s Jews and conservatives.

    #1918362
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant
    #1918382
    charliehall
    Participant

    ” read the Black Lives Matter position on Israel”

    There isn’t one. They removed the horrible statement that had been in their platform. That is good news. Most of the rest of the platform is still pretty nutty, though.

    ” and Harris marches in lockstep with BLM.”

    No she doesn’t. For one thing, she oppposes defunding police. For another, she doesn’t want to release all drug dealers from prison.

    You now may retract and apologize for your motzi shem ra.

    #1918380
    crazykanoiy
    Participant

    @commonsaychel – Bowman and Jones were elected in a liberal stronghold of NYC. There are NYC and San Fransisco Democrats who are clearly progressive and liberal but there are also centrist Democrats like Henry Cueller of Texas and Abigail Spanberger of West Virginia. In the one poll representative of the national Democratic party as a whole, the party chose a centrist that is what truly matters.


    @motcha
    11 – The first amendment includes freedom of assembly. It was Trump who tried to use the insurrection act against those who assemble against his will. Sec. Esper opposed Trump’s authoritarian impulses and that is why he was fired today.

    Also, would you care to back up your claims that Democrats have fought against free speech and religious expression? Please provide examples to back up your assertions.

    #1918392
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Um, charlie? Do you have any idea what motzei shem ra is?

    #1918449
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    @crazyKanoiy, are you kidding me?? the 17th CD is a Liberal stronghold? That Rockland and Westchester Counties, Trump won Rockland with 65% of the vote and Jones opponent won 40% of the Westchester vote in spite of not campaigning and spending the grand total of $10,000 on her campaign.
    Bigger proof the the national democratic congressional sentiments is the the fact the blue dog coalition is 26 members a mere 10% of the Congressional Democrats and Congressional Progressive Caucus has 95 members of 40% of the Democratic congress members.

    #1918442
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    @Charlie Hall, the mere fact that BLM even ever had the vitriolic Anti Semitic – Anti Israel position should scare the heck out of every Jew, they retracted the statment after a huge amount of negitive PR, a Leopard never changes its spots.
    As to your second part of your statement

    “Protests were “necessary,” the Democratic candidate for Vice President said, as “the people’s voices must be heard, and it is often the people who must speak to get their government to do what it is supposed to do, but may not do naturally unless the people speak loudly — and obviously peacefully.”
    Harris also praised the “brilliance” and “impact” of Black Lives Matter, without criticizing the ongoing violence at rallies held in the organization’s name in cities across the country, nor the shooting of two police officers in Louisville. “I actually believe that ‘Black Lives Matter’ has been the most significant agent for change within the criminal justice system,” the former California Attorney General said.”
    Give me a break, I stand by my words 1000%.

    #1918463
    jdf007
    Participant

    Why do we even live in such a world to ask the question? Does a Biden win effect the fate of a unified Ireland or does it result in the US endorsing ethnic cleansing of the emerald isle?
    When I change the nouns, it shows just how offensive politicians and radicals really are.

    #1918609
    charliehall
    Participant

    BK13,

    Sanders is not and has never been a Democrat.

    #1918613
    charliehall
    Participant

    “Bowman beat Engle, Jones replace Lowy”

    Jones is fine. He gave an interview to Mishpacha after the primary. He called out the vile anti-Semitic leaders of the Rockland County Republican Party. And he distanced himself from AOC, Tlaib, and Omar.

    Bowman is a problem.

    Also new in Congress is Ritchie Torres, a far left gay Afro-Latino who didn’t even ask the Democratic Socialists of America for their endorsement (DSA didn’t endorse Biden either). Torres is a true believing Zionist!

    Interesting that we have a lot of gay bashing on this site but it is the two new gay representatives, Jones and Torres, who are our friends, and the two straight representatives, Bowman and Ocasio-Cortez, who aren’t.

    #1918745
    bk613
    Participant

    “BK13,
    Sanders is not and has never been a Democrat.”

    All the more reason to be concerned that he is more popular among Democrats than Joe Biden. Don’t you think it’s an indication of where the party is heading?

    #1918793
    Avi K
    Participant

    Crazykanoiy, are you kidding? Canada is the home of enforced political correctness.

    Charlie,

    First of all, why is it a chiddush for you that people are complex? Anyway, maybe gays are pro-Zionist because they know what happens to gays in Moslem countries.

    In fact, I will one-up you. The Israeli Minister of Internal Security, Amir Ohana, is publicly gay and lives with another man. He is also very far to the right, railed against anti-Hareidi articles in the press and has constantly harshly criticized the Supreme Court and even said that he would disobey the judges if he thought that a decision would harm national security.

    #1918814
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    @crazykanoiy, you say look the the party as a whole and you will see its centrist, that is a laugh, look at the projected numbers for the 2020, the Blue Dog Coalition is projected to shrink to to 17 and the Progressive caucus to grow to 100.

    @CharlieHall
    , any Congressmember who is gay and opposes Israel is nuts, Hamas excutes people if they are gay. Jones was J street endorsed but I am not worried, he won in a 7 way primary and if tacks far left he is a one termer.

    #1918880
    HaKatan
    Participant

    This question seems odd. Of course American Jews, like all Jews, care about E”Y. It is Hashem’s holy land, and we daven at least three times each day that Hashem send Mashiach and return us all there BB”A.

    But none of the discussion here has anything to do with Eretz Yisrael.

    If the question was do we care about our brethren in E”Y, then the answer to that is, of course we do, just like we care about our brethren in France, China or anywhere else.

    If the question is “Do American Jews care about [international relationships with] the Zionist State of Israel?” then that is an entirely different question.

    The answer to that the question is:
    1. The question is really irrelevant because this country has a strategic interest that Israel maintain its QME, or Qualitative Military Edge. It has nothing to do with Jews, antisemitism, and the like but rather plain strategic interest. So our elections are largely irrelevant to the State of Israel.
    2. We (those who do not worship at the idolatrous altar of Zionism) recognize that Zionism and its State have always been an enormous liability and cause of suffering to the Jewish people. So, we have zero interest in the Zionist regime (the State of Israel) that has invaded large portions of E”Y over a century ago and that has shmaded our brethren there and world-wide. We care only about our brethren (Jews) world-wide.

    #1919498
    techeles
    Participant

    SOME but not all –
    Proud AMERICAN Jews daven three times a day for the ingathering of the exiles to E”Y

    SOME but not all-
    Proud AMERICAN Declare Leshana Habba Beyerushalaim after Yom Kippur and the pesach seder

    Some but not all-
    Proud AMERICAN Jews claim that when Moshiach comes they will come home to their own homeland

    Do they mean what they are saying???
    Do they realize what they are asking and hoping for????
    Do they really care?????
    Where is AMERICAN jewry??????
    Unfortunately the KUZARI words on this exact question is still relevant “BIRD CHATTER”

    All anyone cares about is who won the election!!!

    ANYONE WHO DAVENS FOR HATZLACHA IN LEARNING YET DOESNT EVEN OPEN A SEFER AND TRY- COMPLETELY MISSED THE BOAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    FOR ANYONE THAT DAVENS AND YEARNS TO RETURN HOME TO OUR G-D GIVEN HOLY LAND – SHOULD BE AWARE THAT THE DOOR IS OPEN AND HE CAN COME HOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    To my dear brothers and sisters in the great america who have forgotten where they truly belong please remember that living in our precious homeland has nothing to do with politics or elections. To the contrary it transcends any ancient or modern day movement or party.

    The doors are open come home!!!!!!!!!!
    If I can be of any assistance please feel free to reach out.

    #1919529
    charliehall
    Participant

    “Bowman and Jones were elected in a liberal stronghold of NYC. ”

    Jones’ district does not include any part of NYC. And he is fine on Israel; he gave an interview to Mishpacha Magazine in which he went out of his way to distance himself from the anti-Israel nutjobs. The scary thing is that the frum areas of Rockland County, with a vile anti-Semitic local Republican Party, still voted Republican this year.

    Ritchie Torres also won in the South Bronx and he is a true believing Zionist!

    #1919534
    charliehall
    Participant

    “Abigail Spanberger of West Virginia”

    Spanberger is from the 7th Congressional District of Virginia. It was gerrymandered to elect a Republican. She has decided to take on the left wing nutjobs in a big way. I contributed to her campaign and I hope she survives redistricting.

    #1919535
    charliehall
    Participant

    “idolatrous altar of Zionism”

    If I wanted to read vile anti-Zionist garbage I’d go read Rashida Tlaib’s Tweets or Linda Sarsour’s Facebook Page.

    #1919709
    ZSK
    Participant

    No HaKatan, you pray 3x a day to go back to the Russian Pale.

    #1920220
    KGN
    Participant

    To the original @techeles.

    Moving to Canada isn’t a good idea for an American Jew unless he has a real reason too. There’s plenty of more Limud in Lakewood than Toronto. Many Torontons end up moving to Lakewood.

    I do admit that American Jews don’t understand what it’s like to be a 2nd World country like Israel or let alone a conflict region since they are comfortable in a 1st World country. The same is true for Canadian Jews. Many Americans learn in Israel but then come back. I think someone should just find a place and stick to it.


    @charliehall
    , in the time of Yithzak Rabin, there weren’t many advocates for an Arab State in Israel as there are today under the looney social justice warriors. So in today’s world, the card-carrying Right-Winger Netanyahu has had to at least claim to endorse some type of Arab state. It will be very strange to teach Israeli history…

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