Do You Belong To A "Shushing" Shul?

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  • #592128

    ZosHaTorah
    Participant

    Do you know what I mean by shushing shul? Where you might get shushed for talking during davening? I do belong to a shushing shul, and quite frankly, I prefer it that way. When I want to shmooze, I can’t see how doing it in the beis kenessis is the place to do so.

    On the other hand, others really like a place where the kids can run around during davening, where people quietly talk after they finish their Shemona Esra and before the repitition, where the men have somewhat of a “social club,” etc. Perhaps that has its merits, too.

    What do you think?

    #797855

    sms007
    Member

    i think the best idea is when shuls have a minyan or class for the kids so they don’t disturb others, but there not bored out of their minds. also, talking quietly between shemoneh esrei and chazara might disturb others. that’s my opinion anyway

    #797856

    apushatayid
    Participant

    I belong to a “no talking during davening shul”. The Rav and the Gabboim make it a point to try and stop all talking during davening. I know several people who were “insulted” that the Rav called them at home to discuss not talking during davening who left the shul to daven elsewhere.

    Personally, I like davening in this minyan. The decorum allows me to daven and not worry about having to block out discussions on the latest move by the Mets GM, the Dow and anything else people might talk about.

    #797857

    mamashtakah
    Member

    I like a quiet shule. I find any talking in shule disturbing, and cell phone ringing is even worse. I have been known to move my seat to get away from noise; shushing doesn’t help, as it just adds to the noise.

    #797858

    SJSinNYC
    Member

    My shul limits talking as much as possible. It is a young shul with lots of children, so its not always possible.

    The Rabbi did kick out a few congregants for blatantly disrupting davening while talking.

    #797859

    HennyK
    Member

    Question:

    Why is it that in the theator do you make sure to have your phone off and wont dear talk to the guy next to you for fear of the audience reaction, and in the shul you will screw your nose if someone gives you a stare for talking?

    Don’t try answering this question.

    #797860

    bpt
    Participant

    Our shul is self policed, so no one “shushes” anyone else. Though, from time to time we do glare at the occasional cell phone violator (unless his ringtone is way cool)

    And were I to go to movies, I would NOT shut my phone (I might miss a CR update!)

    #797861

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Why is it that in the theator do you make sure to have your phone off and wont dear talk to the guy next to you for fear of the audience reaction, and in the shul you will screw your nose if someone gives you a stare for talking?

    Don’t try answering this question.

    Answer: I don’t talk in shul unless it’s necessary for the davening* (and then I’ll do it as softly as possible). Therefore, no one stares at me for talking.

    In general, my shul is very quiet during davening. I can’t remember the last time we actually had to “shush” someone.

    The Wolf

    (*Example: telling my son during the Yom Tov davening that we don’t say this piyut or do say that one.)

    #797862

    ZosHaTorah
    Participant

    There’s a shul down the street from me where talking during davening is tolerated. I’m the president of my shul, so I always have my “financial cap” on. I hate seeing good families chose to go down the street to daven for this reason, but then I keep reminding myself they are just not a “fit” for my shul if their hashgofa allows them to talk during davening and think that’s ok.

    I always find it amazing when families tell me they daven down the street because the other shul is more “kid friendly.” Maybe that’s just where the family is holding. I would think you pick a shul by where the family can learn and grow the most – every single day of the week, not where the mothers and children feel most comfortable “chatting it up” the 1 hour a week they are in shul. Is that an appropriate way to think?

    #797863

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    It should be noted that when I daven in other shuls (i.e. not my regular shul), I will sometimes stare at someone who talks during davening. I’ll usually let one comment go, mind you — but when people hold entire unnecessary conversations in shul, it really gets to me. Talking in shul is one of my pet peeves.

    I don’t have many pluses in my life, but not talking during davening is one of them.

    Little kids, OTOH, are little kids. As long as they aren’t overly disturbing, I smile and look the other way.

    The Wolf

    #797864

    wolf

    I don’t talk in shul unless it’s necessary for the davening*

    actually i heard that you talk incessantly during the leining

    #797865

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    actually i heard that you talk incessantly during the leining

    I wasn’t going to bring that up, but sadly, that is true. I know that makes me somewhat of a hypocrite… but so be it. 🙁

    The Wolf

    #797866

    laguy
    Member

    I used to be a “no talking” guy and hated when others talked in shul. I then moved to a new shul and got sucked into the talking scene. Things changed dramatically when I had to start saying Kaddish. I could never have imagined how disruptive talking was while someone was trying to say Kaddish. I think if people really knew how their talking disturbed others, they wouldn’t do it. I’ve now re-reformed myself to NO TALKING and I’m hoping my non-participation in conversations will encourage others not to talk.

    #797867

    charliehall
    Participant

    Not talking in shul is the one mitzvah that Reform Jews do a better job of keeping than we who claim to be committed to halachah. We should hang our heads in shame.

    #797868

    oomis
    Participant

    I absolutely LOATHE it when someone is a visitor in the shul in which I daven, and THEY are disruptive. When you are a guest in my house, show some derech eretz. When you are a guest in HASHEM’S and my house, even more so.

    #797869

    laguy

    ive heard it said that if someone is m’vazeh Kaddish by talking when someone is saying it, then the Kaddish that will be one day said for him will not be a zchus for him.

    #797870

    Max Well
    Member

    charlie – there is no mitzvah to be quiet in a reform religion church (even if they call it a synagogue). In fact its an aveira to merely be in there!

    #797871

    mosherose
    Member

    “I wasn’t going to bring that up, but sadly, that is true. I know that makes me somewhat of a hypocrite… but so be it. :(“

    Then dont be a hypocrite and stop talking! Or do you like being holier than thou and knock people for talking while you do it all the time during layning.

    Moshe – Wolf has kidded around about this many times — even though he sounds very serious when joking. He is the baal korah for leining, as he admitted many times, hence he “talks during leining.”

    #797872

    blockhead
    Participant

    @charliehall unfortunately, familiarity breeds contempt.

    #797878

    bpt
    Participant

    “actually i heard that you talk incessantly during the leining”

    I was wondering what Mod-80 was drinking, as this sure sounded out of charachter (Very funny line, now that I get the joke!)

    #797879

    says who
    Member

    charliehall said:

    “Not talking in shul is the one mitzvah that Reform Jews do a better job of keeping than we who claim to be committed to halachah. We should hang our heads in shame.”

    The yetzer horah is not fighting their davening.

    #797880

    Yanky55
    Member

    I agree with Charlie. Talking during davening is something many frum people are not careful about even though the Shulchan Aruch has some very strong words cautioning against it.

    The fact is that reform people recognize that they are there to talk to God and that demands respect. It IS sad that they understand that and many frum people don’t.

    #797881

    Max Well
    Member

    The 3 days a year the reform go to their church isn’t too hard to keep them quiet.

    #797882

    max, reform is not a church!! (in church, they believe in (three) god(s). in reform temple, they don’t belive in nobody!!)

    my shul happens to be VERY quiet. there is never any shushing because i don’t recall anyone talking during tefillah or kri’ah. i know that sounds a little absurd (unfortunately), but it’s true.

    mod nice one

    #797884

    sm29
    Participant

    I think people need to be taught and understand the importance of not talking in shul. Our tefillos would have a much better impact. It can be done if individuals make the effort.

    At the one I go to, they have reading material on the table, so you read instead of talk.

    #797885

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    in reform temple, they don’t belive in nobody!!)

    You’re more correct than you think.

    The vast majority of my family is reform. To my knowledge, every last one of them believes in the existence of HKBH.

    You (and I) may not like the way the Reform practice Judaism, but there’s no reason to add on to their faults where it’s not warranted.

    Are there Reform Jews who are athiests? Certainly. But to suggest that all are (when I’d be willing to bet the majority are not) is just wrong.

    The Wolf

    #797886

    apushatayid
    Participant

    Since “reading material” was mentioned. To me, reading anything, including looking into a gemara, during chazaras hashatz or any other time during davening for that matter, tells me the person is bored and would rather be anywhere else doing anything else, but in shul davening. Those who aren’t in the mood to look into a sefer or read, talk.

    #797887

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    This reminded me of a rant I recently began proclaiming. I’ll put it in a new thread. You’ll like it.

    Also, it’s good to be shushed once in a while. It reminds you how hard it is to be criticized, and helps me remember not to criticize people.

    #797888

    aries2756
    Participant

    HennyK, here’s another question:

    How come you wouldn’t dream of interrupting your phone conversation if someone wants to chat with you, but you don’t mind interrupting your “bakashas” and tefilos, your personal and supposedly meaningful conversation with Hashem to speak to your friend and/or answer your phone? What is so very important that can’t wait for 30 minutes?

    My husband doesn’t bother to turn off his phone in shul, he doesn’t have to! He doesn’t even bother taking it with him to shul. That is the time he chooses to put it on the charger at home!

    #797889

    oomis
    Participant

    What about reading Artscroll meforshim between the Aliyos (i.e. when the person is being called up and general mi sheberachs – not for refuos – are being made).

    #797890

    sm29
    Participant

    But people do become bored unfortunately. It’s much better that they look at a piece of paper rather than talk. I guess the best thing would be that people study the prayers beforehand so it has more meaning to them. Plus, learn the importance of listening to Torah reading

    #797891

    btdater
    Participant

    max well your critique is irrelevant. YOu are telling a bunch of frum jews they cant go to a reform place of worship, I think we all know that.

    That being said, I grew up in a conservative shul and contrary to what you all believe, they talk during davening as well. We would constantly shush people and my father who was the head usher occasionally asked people to leave. I also went to shul every friday night and shabbas day for about 11 years before i switched to an orthodox shul. I had a better track record of making shabbas davening than a whole lot of “orthodox” Jews do.

    Ironically when I was in college i was nervous about switching to the orthodox minyan because i had been told it was a very serious place and i didnt want to show up late and possibly talk a little.

    #797892

    “in reform temple, they don’t belive in nobody!!)

    “You’re more correct than you think.

    The vast majority of my family is reform. To my knowledge, every last one of them believes in the existence of HKBH.

    You (and I) may not like the way the Reform practice Judaism, but there’s no reason to add on to their faults where it’s not warranted.

    Are there Reform Jews who are athiests? Certainly. But to suggest that all are (when I’d be willing to bet the majority are not) is just wrong.”

    An organization of american (Reform) rabbis conducted a survey which showed that 9 out of 10 rabbis do not believe in a god in the traditional sense of the word.

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