November 18, 2019 10:35 pm at 10:35 pm #1801946
Ashkenazim seem more prone to Machloket. I’ve heard this from many ASHKENAZIMNovember 19, 2019 5:56 am at 5:56 am #1801969
Ashkenazim are more intellectual (look at all the great yeshivas), which causes more individualism. Hence more opportunities for Machloket.
Sephardim are more emotionally/spiritually connected. That leads to less individualism.November 19, 2019 5:58 am at 5:58 am #1801977MilhouseParticipant
Ashkenazim seem more prone to Machloket. I’ve heard this from many ASHKENAZIM
Of course you’ve heard it from Ashkenazim, who fondly imagine all kinds of things about a community they don’t know. You won’t hear it from Sefaradim, who know it’s not true.November 19, 2019 9:26 am at 9:26 am #1801992
Ashkenazim are more intellectual?? That’s a Chiddush.November 19, 2019 9:27 am at 9:27 am #1802037benignumanParticipant
It is a machlokes Rishonim whether Ahavas Yisroel requires actual loving feelings towards fellow Jews or simply to do for them what you want done for yourself and not do to them what you would not want done for yourself.November 19, 2019 11:55 am at 11:55 am #1802091
“Ashkenazim are more intellectual??
That’s a Chiddush.”
A Sephardic friend explained that to me. He said that the Ashkenazi connection to Hashem is more intellectual. Which was good until Haskala. Before Haskala, the average nonJew was an illiterate ingnorant peasant. It was easy to stay separated.
After secular enlightenment, their ideas were harder to refute out of hand. That’s why many went OTD in Europe, especially among non chassidim. The Chassidim, my friend explains, went more towards the emotional/spiritual connection to Hashem, and thus suffered less OTD.November 19, 2019 12:06 pm at 12:06 pm #1802100
But how do you explain that many Sephardim were intellectual Geonei Olam? I’ve heard this argument before but I don’t think you can generalize.November 19, 2019 12:06 pm at 12:06 pm #1802101
“Ashkenazim seem more prone to Machloket. ”
Another good reason for that is explained by the Chida.
He says that Ashkenazim are from Binyamin and are tougher people. Hashem put them in Europe because they could withstand the harsh galut of Esav. Binyamin was the only son who did not bow in front of Esav. That maaseh avot was needed for the banim.November 19, 2019 12:46 pm at 12:46 pm #1802109
MDG do you know the source for that HIDA?
I heard that he said that Ashkenazim come from Midat Hadin and Sephardim from Rachamim.November 19, 2019 1:32 pm at 1:32 pm #1802123
“MDG do you know the source for that HIDA?
I heard that he said that Ashkenazim come from Midat Hadin and Sephardim from Rachamim.”
I confused my sources. What you quoted from the Hida is correct.
I have a book on English that states a Midrash about Haman telling Mordecai to bow, just like Yaacov bowed before Esav. Mordecai answered that he is from Binyamin who did not bow.November 19, 2019 1:33 pm at 1:33 pm #1802119It is Time for TruthParticipant
I kept out of the for a while there’s no question Ashkenazim were more intellectual and that goes even the Middle Ages as well when they influenced even Spanish jewry
Who were quite different anyhow than Eastern Sephardic
מגלה עמוקות stated this as wellNovember 19, 2019 1:33 pm at 1:33 pm #1802115
“But how do you explain that many Sephardim were intellectual Geonei Olam?”
I’m not about intellectual capacity or accomplishment. I’m talking about approach in life. Ashkenazim like to intellectualize things. A couple examples:
Ashkenazim like to learn Gemara for lomdus, not for halacha. See the intro to the Yabia Omer, where he points out the need to learn halacha. Otherwise, people learn lomdus and can make huge mistakes because they think they understand. ROY points out that when an Ashkenazi student starts learning for smicha, he goes in the back of the B”M and kind of hides, as if he’s doing something shameful.
A non practicing Sephardi is generally philosophically Orthodox. He knows the real religion, but chooses not to follow. Nonfrum Ashkenazim, on the other hand, make a whole philosophy about their misdeeds. Hence reform, conservative, reconstruction, renewal, etc.November 19, 2019 3:56 pm at 3:56 pm #1802138
מגלה עמוקות stated this as well
Exact source. I want to see inside.November 19, 2019 3:56 pm at 3:56 pm #1802131GadolhadorahParticipant
So if we distill the past 50 or so postings, Ashkenazim are more “intellectual” and that, in turn, makes them more philosophical prone to “engage in machlokes” Poor Sephardim are just plain thinking, everday poishete yidden without much depth and thus willing to accept other (similarly situated) poishete yidden without overthinking their real motives and intent. For example, when you walk in to a strange ashkenaz shul, a few in the tzibur may grunt gutten shabbos and will immediately worry about WHY you are there and what sorts of mischief you may have in mind (aka c’v sitting in a makom kavuah or taking a sefer from someone’s shtender). Conversely, the tzibur in the Sehardeshe shul will give you a warm “shabbot shalom’, escort you to a seat, make sure you have a siddur, and insist you stay around for the kiddush after davening.November 20, 2019 6:56 am at 6:56 am #1802442
The ironic thing is that the friend i quoted is a Sephardic college professor, an intellectual.November 24, 2019 9:42 pm at 9:42 pm #1803869
The Ashkenzi OTD became the Reform etc starting some 200+ years ago. The Sephardi OTD became Catholics about 500-600 years ago. Today fully one third of modern day Spanish Christians descend from Sephardim.November 24, 2019 9:42 pm at 9:42 pm #1803868
The great talmidei chachomin in klal yisroel over the last almost 500 years have mostly come from among the Ashkenazim. 500+ years ago they largely came from the Sephardim, though there were of course the greatest of the greats, Rashi, as well as numerous others such as the Baalei Tosfos etc. that came from Ashkenaz.November 24, 2019 10:53 pm at 10:53 pm #1803897
Joseph wrong again. Just because you don’t know about them didn’t mean they don’t exist. Get out of your bubble.November 27, 2019 12:30 pm at 12:30 pm #1805083Reb EliezerParticipant
Joaeph, what about the Chida and the Ben Ish Chai?November 27, 2019 2:56 pm at 2:56 pm #1805193
“what about the Chida and the Ben Ish Chai?”
….To name a few!November 27, 2019 2:56 pm at 2:56 pm #1805187
Reb Eliezer, of course there were huge Sefardic gedolim. But numerically there have been far far more and even far greater Askenazic gedolim over the last several hundred years.November 27, 2019 3:49 pm at 3:49 pm #1805222Reb EliezerParticipant
Currently, I giive thanks to Rav Ovadya Yoseph ztz’l for his Yabia Omer and Yechaveh Daas for disseminating all the views when answering a shalah.November 27, 2019 7:21 pm at 7:21 pm #1805296
Joseph, who are you to decide who is a greater Gadol?November 27, 2019 7:36 pm at 7:36 pm #1805306
YO — See the following OP:November 27, 2019 10:25 pm at 10:25 pm #1805330
Nunu, you sent a link to a previous thread,? Nunu? That’s supposed to be some sort of authoritative document on “rating” Rabbanim? You think a guy who lives in BK and spends all his time on YWN is the go to person for Gedolim??
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