Do you love all Jews…

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  • #1801946

    Yabia Omer
    Participant

    Ashkenazim seem more prone to Machloket. I’ve heard this from many ASHKENAZIM

    #1801969

    MDG
    Participant

    Ashkenazim are more intellectual (look at all the great yeshivas), which causes more individualism. Hence more opportunities for Machloket.
    Sephardim are more emotionally/spiritually connected. That leads to less individualism.

    #1801977

    Milhouse
    Participant

    Ashkenazim seem more prone to Machloket. I’ve heard this from many ASHKENAZIM

    Of course you’ve heard it from Ashkenazim, who fondly imagine all kinds of things about a community they don’t know. You won’t hear it from Sefaradim, who know it’s not true.

    #1801992

    Yabia Omer
    Participant

    Ashkenazim are more intellectual?? That’s a Chiddush.

    #1802037

    benignuman
    Participant

    It is a machlokes Rishonim whether Ahavas Yisroel requires actual loving feelings towards fellow Jews or simply to do for them what you want done for yourself and not do to them what you would not want done for yourself.

    #1802091

    MDG
    Participant

    “Ashkenazim are more intellectual??
    That’s a Chiddush.”

    A Sephardic friend explained that to me. He said that the Ashkenazi connection to Hashem is more intellectual. Which was good until Haskala. Before Haskala, the average nonJew was an illiterate ingnorant peasant. It was easy to stay separated.

    After secular enlightenment, their ideas were harder to refute out of hand. That’s why many went OTD in Europe, especially among non chassidim. The Chassidim, my friend explains, went more towards the emotional/spiritual connection to Hashem, and thus suffered less OTD.

    #1802100

    Yabia Omer
    Participant

    But how do you explain that many Sephardim were intellectual Geonei Olam? I’ve heard this argument before but I don’t think you can generalize.

    #1802101

    MDG
    Participant

    “Ashkenazim seem more prone to Machloket. ”

    Another good reason for that is explained by the Chida.

    He says that Ashkenazim are from Binyamin and are tougher people. Hashem put them in Europe because they could withstand the harsh galut of Esav. Binyamin was the only son who did not bow in front of Esav. That maaseh avot was needed for the banim.

    #1802109

    Yabia Omer
    Participant

    MDG do you know the source for that HIDA?
    I heard that he said that Ashkenazim come from Midat Hadin and Sephardim from Rachamim.

    #1802123

    MDG
    Participant

    “MDG do you know the source for that HIDA?
    I heard that he said that Ashkenazim come from Midat Hadin and Sephardim from Rachamim.”

    I confused my sources. What you quoted from the Hida is correct.
    I have a book on English that states a Midrash about Haman telling Mordecai to bow, just like Yaacov bowed before Esav. Mordecai answered that he is from Binyamin who did not bow.

    #1802119

    I kept out of the for a while there’s no question Ashkenazim were more intellectual and that goes even the Middle Ages as well when they influenced even Spanish jewry
    Who were quite different anyhow than Eastern Sephardic

    Yabia Omer
    MDG

    מגלה עמוקות stated this as well

    #1802115

    MDG
    Participant

    “But how do you explain that many Sephardim were intellectual Geonei Olam?”

    I’m not about intellectual capacity or accomplishment. I’m talking about approach in life. Ashkenazim like to intellectualize things. A couple examples:
    Ashkenazim like to learn Gemara for lomdus, not for halacha. See the intro to the Yabia Omer, where he points out the need to learn halacha. Otherwise, people learn lomdus and can make huge mistakes because they think they understand. ROY points out that when an Ashkenazi student starts learning for smicha, he goes in the back of the B”M and kind of hides, as if he’s doing something shameful.

    A non practicing Sephardi is generally philosophically Orthodox. He knows the real religion, but chooses not to follow. Nonfrum Ashkenazim, on the other hand, make a whole philosophy about their misdeeds. Hence reform, conservative, reconstruction, renewal, etc.

    #1802138

    MDG
    Participant


    מגלה עמוקות stated this as well

    Exact source. I want to see inside.

    #1802131

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    So if we distill the past 50 or so postings, Ashkenazim are more “intellectual” and that, in turn, makes them more philosophical prone to “engage in machlokes” Poor Sephardim are just plain thinking, everday poishete yidden without much depth and thus willing to accept other (similarly situated) poishete yidden without overthinking their real motives and intent. For example, when you walk in to a strange ashkenaz shul, a few in the tzibur may grunt gutten shabbos and will immediately worry about WHY you are there and what sorts of mischief you may have in mind (aka c’v sitting in a makom kavuah or taking a sefer from someone’s shtender). Conversely, the tzibur in the Sehardeshe shul will give you a warm “shabbot shalom’, escort you to a seat, make sure you have a siddur, and insist you stay around for the kiddush after davening.

    #1802442

    MDG
    Participant

    GH,
    The ironic thing is that the friend i quoted is a Sephardic college professor, an intellectual.

    #1803869

    Joseph
    Participant

    The Ashkenzi OTD became the Reform etc starting some 200+ years ago. The Sephardi OTD became Catholics about 500-600 years ago. Today fully one third of modern day Spanish Christians descend from Sephardim.

    #1803868

    Joseph
    Participant

    The great talmidei chachomin in klal yisroel over the last almost 500 years have mostly come from among the Ashkenazim. 500+ years ago they largely came from the Sephardim, though there were of course the greatest of the greats, Rashi, as well as numerous others such as the Baalei Tosfos etc. that came from Ashkenaz.

    #1803897

    Yabia Omer
    Participant

    Joseph wrong again. Just because you don’t know about them didn’t mean they don’t exist. Get out of your bubble.

    #1805083

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Joaeph, what about the Chida and the Ben Ish Chai?

    #1805193

    Yabia Omer
    Participant

    “what about the Chida and the Ben Ish Chai?”

    ….To name a few!

    #1805187

    Joseph
    Participant

    Reb Eliezer, of course there were huge Sefardic gedolim. But numerically there have been far far more and even far greater Askenazic gedolim over the last several hundred years.

    #1805222

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Currently, I giive thanks to Rav Ovadya Yoseph ztz’l for his Yabia Omer and Yechaveh Daas for disseminating all the views when answering a shalah.

    #1805296

    Yabia Omer
    Participant

    Joseph, who are you to decide who is a greater Gadol?

    #1805306

    Joseph
    Participant
    #1805330

    Yabia Omer
    Participant

    Nunu, you sent a link to a previous thread,? Nunu? That’s supposed to be some sort of authoritative document on “rating” Rabbanim? You think a guy who lives in BK and spends all his time on YWN is the go to person for Gedolim??

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