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Dogma and extremist mindsets significantly distort moral agency by replacing nuanced ethical reasoning with rigid, black-and-white thinking and moral disengagement. This process is driven by both psychological and neuropsychological mechanisms that prioritize group loyalty and emotional certainty over objective moral evaluation.
Dogmatic thinking creates a closed cognitive system where individuals accept beliefs without criticism and reject opposing viewpoints, effectively halting critical moral reasoning And personal responsibility. This rigidity leads to moral disengagement, where harmful actions are justified as serving a higher good or protecting the group’s group think. Consequently, individuals surrender personal responsibility to a larger ideology or authority, allowing them to rationalize behavior that would normally violate their moral code. The belief in one’s own moral righteousness becomes absolute, fostering intolerance and justifying character assassination and opression as necessary defenses of truth.
I’m talking to you qweurty
To the Group
What nevuah is saying is that those who accept and adhere to the teachings of Pirkei Avos and Rambam and Rashi and the Gaon etc. are dogmatic extremists. Tell that worthless kofer, checkmate. There is some good news. He has no spelling mistakes except for my name. lol It’s only a matter of time til I break this nut job.
Yes, and?
Hello??? Where are the mods to shut down this coffee room? Every thread has become a vicious debate about zionism… Even the most random discussion becomes the same debate of everyone vs qwerty, ujm and hakatan… YWN, its time to shut down this “Kosher Chat Room” you’ve created… For as we all know, that’s all the coffee room is…. Your classic online chat room that happens to be on a Jewish site, so people can lie to themselves and think they’re not wasting hours upon hours of their lives in “real” chatrooms….
Shut it down.
All who agree with me, please say “aye”. (No long posts please…. Just say “aye”)
Reply to nevuah. Firstly I agree with qwerty613: you are a koifer – whether you realise it or not. If your rant was only against dogma, I would have responded differently. But since you include ‘extremist’ you clearly mean strict adherence to Orthodox belief, as established by the nevi’im, anshe kenesses hagedoilah, tanoim, amaroim, rishoinim, achroinim, and you propose to follow your own critical reasoning. You are starting from a place that does not end here. You are clearly a troll, and a sick one at that.
nevuah, your entire argument is based on a false premise – that morality comes from within. It does not. Morality comes from Hashem and the Torah.
Here’s an example where I surrender my personal view to a larger ideology: society today, for the most part, is very accepting of same-gender marriages. From a personal perspective, why should I oppose this? Why should it matter to me who someone wants to be with, and what they do? But, the Torah tells us that it’s wrong, and therefore I surrender my personal thoughts to the will of Hashem, and I oppose it. The morality is set by Hashem and the Torah, not by my personal views.
In the wild, animals live by survival of the fittest. The strong take from the weak. Why shouldn’t mankind be the same? If I’m stronger than you, why shouldn’t I be able to just attack you and take whatever I want from you? It’s because Hashem told us that killing is wrong, stealing is wrong, etc that society has these laws. Yes, it dates back thousands of years, even pre-dating Matan Torah. But it came from what Hashem told the people at the time, and it became the norm in society.
So yes, absolutely we should surrender to the greater ideology of the Torah!To DaMoshe and ipchamistabra
Welcome to the club who realize that this lunatic thinks that he can tell Hashem what the Torah means.
Using your own sense as the basis for developing your morals means that you never changed and never grew. It also creates a facade of having the real developed moral system when the opposite is true, and it is merely a system built upon itself with many and varies undetected influeces.
On the other hand, when you study Torah with יראת שמים with the intention to get to know what is important and what it possible and attainable, then you develop your moral system around Hashem’s system, which He graciously gave us.
This is actual nuance, since you are constantly refining and redefining the requirements and values, and you learn to delve deeper and see with clarity that which has been blurry hitherto. Whereas using yourself as the yardstick means that what you call nuance is merely the track that your mind naturally drifted. That is not growth. That is not developed. That is wild growth.
@johnnysmith
why a zero sum game? Just shut down any new chat about zionism. There should be one chat where they can go to and freely debate. But they shouldn’t be allowed to highjack the other chats and should be blocked from posting anyhting about zionsim. Everyone just stick to their own chat. It not a reaosn to close the whole coffee room downNevuah: I’m not sure what you mean when you say “God is within”. Yes, there is a spark of God in each of us. But there is also a yetzer hara. We have bechirah. We are imperfect beings, while Hashem is perfect. So morality can’t come from people, because people are flawed.
Morality comes from the Torah, and only from the Torah.
As far as what you said about relationships – so what if it’s ick? Personally, I can’t stand salmon. Don’t like the taste. Even the smell of it gets me nauseous, and I can’t be around it while it’s cooking, or if it’s being served hot (it doesn’t give off much of a smell when it’s cold.) Does that mean nobody should eat salmon? Absolutely not. You may find such relationships “ick”, but to plenty of people, it’s normal, or even desirable. So why should it bother you what somebody does in private?
The answer is that it’s the Torah that tells us it’s wrong. The Torah is perfect, and if it tells us what is moral and what isn’t, then that is the truth.Nevuah: do you exercise your intellect and not blindly follow when it comes to spelling? For example, I keep wondering why you write “fallow” instead of “follow”. Fallow means “something left unused, inactive, or dormant”.
To johnnysmith
I don’t know why you’re grouping me with the anti-Zionists ujm and Hakatan.
To DaMoshe
He doesn’t mean anything. He’s a psychofer who went off the deep end after his divorce. Nothing he says makes any sense to anyone including the atheist. He’s just angry at the world and Hashem for having ruined his own life.
To DaMoshe
Fallow instead of follow is one of his favorites. When he initially showed up as rescue, he would regularly use oppion for opinion. I think he thinks that it demonstrates that he is not bound by any social conventions and so this is part of his Kefirah attitude meaning he can reinterpret the Torah. His Yetzer hora has complete control of him as the idiot tries to tell the world that they have to reinvent themselves while he’s a slave to his inner demons.
We are frum. We abide by the teachings of the Torah. We believe that morality comes from the Torah. We believe that we are commanded to follow the Torah today just like our forebears were commanded to do so.
We accept your right to choose differently. We also believe that you will pay for your choices much as we will.
You do NOT have a right to demand that we recognize your kefira as another interpretation of the Torah.
Didn’t read through all posts here, just responding to the initial post. Is this different in essence to the point made in “group think”, or it’s the same idea from a slightly different angle? It seems to me that what you keep circling back to is systemic ideas that influence what and how people think, and you make the point that people must live and think as individuals. While it seems like you’re doing between the lines is questioning how the mainstream frum communities operate. You’re not necessarily a coward, maybe you just want ywn to post your content.
Back to your main point, doom77 made a good point, “yes, and?”. You keep dropping lessons on sociology/psychology without laying your targets makes it very hard for us to understand and seems like all you’re doing is rage bating qwerty on a public platform rather than opening a discussion.As i said, I’m responding to the initial post because these conversation get side tracked, which in essence means it has nothing to do with the origibal point made, and my question stands.
To pekak
You certainly get it. The psychofer thinks we’re idiots who are babbling whatever we’ve been told. He therefore rejects the first Mishna in Pirkei Avos. The question is not whether he violates the Torah, it’s whether he keeps any of it, i.e. are there any laws which he finds amenable and so he does G-d a favor and observes them?
To ashergg
I’ll thank you on this post for calling out the psychofer’s ad hominem attacks against me. The moron thinks that his insults bother me. He’s just adding fuel to the fire they’re preparing for him in Gehinnom.
Aren’t you enlightened, parroting what atheists and long dead members of the Haskalah said?
Just Stop!
Nevuah and rescue (same thing) only care about themselves.
YOU ARE YOUR OWN GOD!!
You don’t care what the God of Israel (Torah) says.
Your god is YOUR OWN CONSIENCE!!
End of discussion.
Every time he says “god” he means “MYSELF”!!
FACTS
To pekak
Love your response to that sickotic. Chazal teach that Moshe Rabbeinu reached the stage where every word he said was coming from Hashem. Whatever this psychofer says is coming from his Yetzer hora. He’s like a host organism that was invaded by a virus which took over his DNA.
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