Dogma stunts moral agency

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  • #2555378
    Happy new year
    Participant

    Every response nevuah gave PROVES 1000% my point that his “god” is HIMSELF and his “divine” is his own body.

    You LITERALLY WORSHIP YOURSELF!!

    And anybody who doesn’t worship YOU is delusional.

    How about YOU are delusional???????

    And if I wanna worship myself, who are you to disagree?

    If I follow my own god, i’m delusional???

    #2555379
    Happy new year
    Participant

    Moshe killed a Mitzri to save a Yisrael’s life.
    Bro…

    And you don’t give a **** about Moshe!!

    You’ll trash EVERYTHING he said that you don’t like!!

    #2555380
    Happy new year
    Participant

    And just to UTTERLY DESTROY the headline here:

    Assuming there is such a thing as “moral agency” is itself 100% DOGMA!!

    THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS “MORALITY” SCIENTIFICALLY!!!!!!!

    FACT!!!

    If you think “morality” exists (without dogma) you are 100% DELUSIONAL!!!!!

    #2555519
    qwerty613
    Participant

    To Happy New Year

    You nailed it.

    #2555569
    nevuah
    Participant

    Happy new year there’s no such thing as morality?
    So you don’t agree with right and wrong?
    Your starting to sound like a liberal lol your sure your 100 percent Jewish

    #2555570
    nevuah
    Participant

    Fist of all calm down. Lol what does Moshe killing a mitzri have to do with the fact that he grew up outside the Jewish quarter complelty negating what you said. Second,
    Let’s differentiate morality from dogma:

    Dogma is an authoritative principle, belief, or statement of opinion accepted as absolutely true regardless of evidence or without supporting proof, often rooted in tradition, authority, or cultural norms. It is characterized by unquestioning adherence and rigid doctrines that dictate behavior based on external imposition.

    Morality, in contrast, is the recognition of the distinction between good and evil or right and wrong, involving respect for and obedience to the rules of right conduct through individual reflection and critical thinking. While dogma determines right and wrong based on authority, morality emerges from autonomous ethical reasoning, empathy, and a conscious engagement with complex human experiences rather than blind obedience

    #2555571
    nevuah
    Participant

    You’re right God and the self are interwoven you cannot serve God without the self and you cannot know right from wrong without first understanding it with your brain. Yourself and reality are not disconnected from the other they are both machines that work in a reality ship with the other. You cannot have one without the other. Now go cope. Ok?

    #2556641
    Happy new year
    Participant

    Thank you for admitting you worship yourself and not the God of Israel who gave the Torah. I appreciate the honesty!!

    You see what happens? When I prove there is no objective morality, you say I’m a liberal.
    Yes, YOU ARE DOGMATIC!!
    And liberalism is also dogma. Bruh…

    Once you realize YOU ARE DOGMATIC, you’ll stop this craziness…

    #2556958
    qwerty613
    Participant

    To Happy

    I totally agree with you that Nevuah considers himself to be a (the) deity. To that point he just composed what he calls “The Five Commandments.” Having ten would be conforming to the rigid dogma.

    1. I am the L-rd your G-d who took you out of the Egypt of dogmatism and so you shall have no other god beside me.
    2. Do not make any graven images since these are symbols of materialism which reflect the corruption of mankind.
    3. Do not take my name in vain as it dehumanizes me.
    4. Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy, by observing its moral imperatives not its religious doctrines which stunt our free will.
    5 Honor your father and mother unless they force you to conform to their dogmatic ideologies.

    #2556995
    nevuah
    Participant

    I said they were both connected. You cannot worship God without the self. As having a body and soul is the way we connect to God. What are we hot air that doesn’t exist. We are the vessal the worships God. Second your mixing up dogma as I stated very clearly. Do you know what dogma is?

    #2557075
    nevuah
    Participant

    How do you pray? From the mouth God gave you. From the self. Lol like are you dumb?

    #2557166
    nevuah
    Participant

    Prove to me how what I said is dogma lol. If your making a claim prove it.
    You don’t believe in objective morality then you don’t believe in inherint right and wrong and yes that’s exactly what liberals believe. If you tell them morality is objective they go on a conveluted tangent how morality doesn’t exist. Explain to me how that’s different?
    Qwerty your starting to sound exactly like God spoke. Yes that’s kind of the idea….tell me how that’s any different from the luchos.

    #2557167
    nevuah
    Participant

    Happy new year _you_ are dogmatic. We already established what dogma means. Maybe read it again ok? Get some clarity

    #2557327
    Happy new year
    Participant

    Morality itself is DOGMA!

    Yes, I know what dogma is. It’s anything subjective that is not scientifically true.

    Like Morality.

    There is no reason, scientifically, objectively, to not kill or do anything bad. In fact, even the word “BAD” is DOGMA!

    Let’s rewrite the headline:
    DOGMA CREATES MORAL AGENCY!!

    Morality is dogma. Good/Bad are Dogmatic ideas.

    If we believe in Morality, we are Dogmatic.

    Some of us follow the Dogma/Morality of the Torah/God of Israel.

    And others, like yourself, follow YOUR OWN DOGMA!!
    THAT YOU RANDOMLY DECIDED

    #2557642
    nevuah
    Participant

    Um I’m not sure you know what dogma is but ok

    #2557689
    Happy new year
    Participant

    No, YOU dont know what Dogma is!

    And now that I finally educated you, I fully appreciate that you admitted it.

    Thank you!

    Now you’ll stop all these crazy threads.

    #2557749
    nevuah
    Participant

    No, your throwing out statements that don’t have a basis in fact but if you want to convince yourself that’s ok

    #2558020
    Happy new year
    Participant

    Ok fine. Lets play this game.

    Prove to me, scientifically, how morality exists.
    What is morality and how do you know it’s real?

    Is it because it makes you feel good? It feels right to you?

    I want Objective, Scientific facts.

    NO DOGMA!!

    This is gonna be fun!

    #2558076
    qwerty613
    Participant

    To nevuah

    You stated yesterday that morality is objective as is the difference between right and wrong. According to your thesis can you explain the difference between Jews and non-Jews?

    #2558509
    nevuah
    Participant

    All people are tied down to morality as it’s the structure of reality doesn’t matter if your Jewish or not.

    #2558521
    nevuah
    Participant

    Happy new year the fact that your asking that question is insane. No offense. This is why, and I’ve seen this over and over again, your definitely not the only one , but this is why I don’t fully see truth coming from people who conform, cuz over and over again they ask “who defines morality”
    If you claim to keep the Torah “blindly fallow God” like your the ultimate of ultimate and your asking the question like that your complelty lost. No offense.
    I can tho answer for you if you want but all I can say is “face palm” and wow, after all this back and forth _im_ the bad guy. Wow. You are a living walking contradiction to your own beliefs

    #2558524
    nevuah
    Participant

    Reality itself reacts to moral corruption.
    It says in the Torah “and the land will spit you out”
    When a socioty collectively does evil it gets involved in the occult it litterally can cause “wars”
    (But that’s between people) And natural disasters.
    That’s how powerful we are and that’s how powerful our actions are. Now translate that on a micro level

    #2558527
    nevuah
    Participant

    Every single sin or “bad action” has its physical, mataphysical, moral and Devin consequences, there’s many layers and thier not all the same. It also affects others (duh) and can also affect the community.
    It says what you reap you sow. That means whatever you give out it grows. Whether for good. Or for bad.
    And that growth can bless you or haunt you. It really depends on the action.
    In the times of the temple there were very specific, atonement principles set up for each sin, cuz each morally corrupt action is different and requires different kind of animals and different kind of payment to mitigate the consenquences of said action.
    There’s so much at play here it’s not a simple one or two answer. It really depends on the scanerio as well. If you want to give me a specific scanario I can perhaps give you a more concrete version of what this means

    #2558530
    nevuah
    Participant

    On a more human and scientific level
    (The metaphysical isn’t always concrete)
    “moral behavior arises from a complex network of older structures that is neccisary for social survival, including the ventromedial prefrontal cortex (vmPFC) for emotional valuation, the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex (dlPFC) for cognitive control, and the temporoparietal junction (TPJ) for understanding others’ intentions. These regions are part of a heterarchical-hierarchical neurological architecture where ancient affective systems in the brain stem and limbic system interact with higher-order cortical areas to regulate impulses and process empathy.

    Morality affects reality by enhancing group survival through cooperation and shaping social norms that dictate individual behavior. Genetic predispositions provide the neural “building blocks” for empathy and fairness,This interplay ensures that moral reasoning is not just an abstract concept but a biological mechanism that influences real-world decisions, social cohesion, and the perception of right versus wrong”

    I couldn’t find something more simplistic but to explain “morality” and right and wrong is neccisary for the health of a community and it’s survival and the health of a person as an individual.

    #2558531
    nevuah
    Participant

    Inherinitly understanding of right and wrong is built into our physiology including the tools for discernment.
    That’s how socioty maintains equalibrium
    The opposite affect like bad actions or “sin”, breaks the fabric of a person and perhaps even harms their human nature by changing physiology and it’s inherint biological systems and also breaks social cohesion.
    These are very important principles to understand.
    At the same time, there are also metaphysical systems at play here but that’s not neccisarily something that needs to be the focus.

    #2558873
    Happy new year
    Participant

    I see alot of DOGMA!!

    Anything real??

    Everything you’ve just articulated is pure DOGMA!

    Look, we can have our own version of morality. Thats fine.
    But don’t pretend youre aren’t dogmatic!

    #2559016
    qwerty613
    Participant

    To nevuah

    Thank you for stating that morality makes no distinction between Jew and gentile. Now since you believe that the entire Torah is a book of morality what emerges is that you believe that Hashem gave the Torah to all people on equal footing to be judged equally. Rashi, in his first comment, in Sefer Bereishis, disagreed with you. He said that Breishes means Bishvil Reishis ie for the Jewish people who are called Reishis. So, let’s understand why Rashi along with all our other Mefarshim are correct but you are not. In fact, the Mitzvahs can be categorized into three groups. The first are Mishpatim, civil laws, or, to use your term; moral laws. These are found in all civilized societies. And it can be said that all people, Jews and gentile alike are equally bound to keep them. But then we have the second group which are called Chukim, suprarational commandments. No human being could intuit them had Hashem not given them to Moshe. While people may offer reasons, once such laws are on the books, no one could predict them. Finally, we have those Mitzvahs which speak to the origins of the Jewish people, Pesach as a prime example. As we learned in the second Perek of Pirkei Avos one may not treat one Mitzvah as superior to another and therefore all the Mitzvahs in each of the three groups must be treated with the same reverence. This is not dogma. It’s the truth, whether you like it or not.

    #2559193
    nevuah
    Participant

    Happy new year. You see nothing you have no clue what dogma is. Ok? Next moving on.
    Morality qwerty does not diffrentiate because it’s the fabric of reality. That means if your _human_ you reap what you sow. It doesn’t matter if you wear a suit or a kippa on your head.
    There’s other rules in the Torah that only apply to Jewish people, like sotah, and shabbas, and sandhedein, and yom tov and alot of other things. But morality, which is right and wrong doesn’t descriminate.
    I mean please stop missing what I’m saying

    #2559194
    nevuah
    Participant

    Your saying exactly what I’m saying. Like please. Morality. Which is right and wrong. Reality, doesn’t care what suit you wear or if you think your better then anyone. If someone, falls off a tree, does it matter what he’s wearing or who he claims to be. No. It doesn’t and that shows how stupid we think we are that we think we are better then anybody else by the way we present ourselves. Presentation is litterly like saying clothes change your character or make you into some almighty God. It’s just fabric. I mean get over yourself.

    #2559195
    nevuah
    Participant

    “This is not dogma. It’s the truth, whether you like it or not”
    It is dogma as it’s making a blanket statement and not taking nuance into account but whatever.
    Second just like the Torah is a blue print for reality, when the “mitzvahs” that aren’t morality affects everyone the exact same if they don’t keep it.
    So if a Jew decides not to keep pesach for some reason it will affect a non Jew in the same way. (Humans are humans phsyioligy doesn’t change by beliefs. Sorry to tell you)
    But the non Jew never kept chag so he doesn’t feel the spiritual shift.

    #2559196
    nevuah
    Participant

    Humans are all the same. Actually just we are actually, of less quality because of thousands of years of inbreeding. So please your not better then anyone else, even if your trying ok? Thanks

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