February 17, 2013 7:58 pm at 7:58 pm #608256
Are you allowed to drink a coffee from a non-kosher Dunkin Donuts?February 17, 2013 7:59 pm at 7:59 pm #1022356
ya but only reg iced coffee, not latte and no flavorings.. and no whipped cream i thinkFebruary 17, 2013 8:00 pm at 8:00 pm #1022358
can you buy a hot coffee?February 17, 2013 8:11 pm at 8:11 pm #1022359
Black non-flavored, only.February 17, 2013 8:13 pm at 8:13 pm #1022360
It would be the same as any other goysha “coffee” shop. While you know the coffee itself has a hecksher, you have no information on the other ingedients, and you have to ask whether the utensils used may have been used with non-kosher foods.
Some people drink coffee anywhere, and some people don’t, depending on their own level of kashrus.February 17, 2013 8:16 pm at 8:16 pm #1022361
u can get sugar and milk too.. if u x keep cholov yisreal..February 17, 2013 8:16 pm at 8:16 pm #1022362
Does non flavored mean with no milk.
I got a regular hot coffee with milk and sugar. Is that ok??February 17, 2013 8:20 pm at 8:20 pm #1022363
non flavored means no caramel or mocha or hazelnut.. if u dont keep cholov yisreal theres no reason why the milk wud be a problem..February 17, 2013 8:26 pm at 8:26 pm #1022364
what about the donuts?February 17, 2013 8:28 pm at 8:28 pm #1022365
Thanx ThePurpleOne now i am going to drink my coffee w/o being worried if the coffee is Kosher. But i don’t think i am going to buy a coffee there again.February 17, 2013 8:52 pm at 8:52 pm #1022366
So just like that, you’d accept the word of an anonymous person on the internet, who may or may not know what s/he is talking about, instead of asking a Rav and getting a real halachic opinion?February 17, 2013 9:35 pm at 9:35 pm #1022368
noooo do noot eat the donuts if its a non kosher dunkin donuts!! coffee is ok, not donuts.
and N.G. pls ask ur rav and lemme no if im right!!February 17, 2013 10:52 pm at 10:52 pm #1022369
Takahmamash- it’s not like shetold him to so by saying only coffe w/o milk or flavoring…any way he said he’s not buying there anymore
IMPORTANT: MANY POSKIM SAY THE CHOLOV YISROEL MILK ONCE OPENED AND TOUCHED BY A GUY IT’S NOT CHALAV YISROEL ANYMORE DON’T TRICK URSELF INTOTHINKING THAT SO IF U DON’T EAT CHOLOVHASTAM DO NOT GET ANYTHING FROM DUNKIN OR STAR BUCKS ETC! MANY PPL DON’T KNOW THIS SPREAD THE WORD!!!February 17, 2013 11:53 pm at 11:53 pm #1022370
superme- anyways starbucks and dd dont have cholov yisreal milk..February 17, 2013 11:55 pm at 11:55 pm #1022371
Touching milk does not affect cholov Yisroel status, but if it’s opened and not supervised, one has to assume that the milk container may be refilled with the cheaper cholov stam milk.February 18, 2013 2:07 am at 2:07 am #1022372
DY – exactly what poskim said I just said touching bec kinda the same thing
Purple one- in flatbush u bet that DD had cholov YISROEL milk they showed me but then I read this…February 18, 2013 2:16 am at 2:16 am #1022373
Superme, to be clear: it’s not about touching the milk, it’s about the open container being unsupervised. There is a big difference, they’re not “kinda the same thing”.February 18, 2013 4:17 am at 4:17 am #1022374
Hot coffee can be consumed in any establishment, especially in a disposable cup. Sugar and milk in DD shops both generally have hechsherim, and many hold that both these items in America don’t require a hechsher anyways.
Also, regarding donuts in DD shops: all mixes and ingredients used by all DD shops are kosher. Their toasters in the front of the store are used for treif and therefore, you cannot have toasted sandwiches in treif DD shops. But the donuts themselves are not problematic, according to an expert in kashrut, R’ Abadi.February 18, 2013 4:19 am at 4:19 am #1022375
Well they are bec noone there is just touchingrhe bottle and u shld know exact words it said was “once the bottle of cholov yisroel milk is placed in a goys presence it isno to be treated as cholov yisroel of course it is better to still ask for it but to shld know it’s not” -words from thenoticeFebruary 18, 2013 4:26 am at 4:26 am #1022376
“according to an expert in kashrut, R’ Abadi.”
lolFebruary 18, 2013 4:56 am at 4:56 am #1022377
yitzchokm – R’ Abadi is an expert, who also happens to have some unconventional views. The fact that the majority don’t pasken like him doesn’t mean you have a right to demean him.February 18, 2013 5:00 am at 5:00 am #1022378
“according to an expert in kashrut, R’ Abadi.”
You mechutzaf. Rav Abadi is quite an expert, and is head and shoulders in learning over most rabbonim.
And we also are not noheg like him. But I wouldn’t want to be the one to be mevazeh him.
Mods: that comment should not have been posted.February 18, 2013 5:03 am at 5:03 am #1022379
I wouldn’t eat in a DD without a hechsher, but if people do eat donuts from such a place, they’re not technically violating anything, which is why I cited R’ Abadi’s shita.
IIRC, he also says a person could eat a tuna salad sandwich from a treif Subway restaurant and could eat grilled fish in a treif restaurant, under certain conditionsFebruary 18, 2013 5:05 am at 5:05 am #1022380
Can anyone who wants to, follow Rabbi Abadi’s leniencies?February 18, 2013 5:07 am at 5:07 am #1022381
Can anyone who wants to, follow Rabbi Abadi’s leniencies?
It would be appropriate to follow his stringencies as well. I think he’s got some nice opinions about eruvin that will mean you can forget about using most of them.February 18, 2013 5:08 am at 5:08 am #1022382
If one follows his kulot, they need to follow his humrot, as well.February 18, 2013 5:10 am at 5:10 am #1022383
Why must you follow his eruv stringencies if you follow his kasruth lenieincies?
If someone follows Rav Moshe’s leniencies on IVF (or any other matter) must he follow Rav Moshe’s stringency against setting a timer to turn an AC on during Shabbos?February 18, 2013 5:45 am at 5:45 am #1022384
According to most reputable kashrus agencies, plain coffee is not a problem anywhere. Sugar is not a problem as it doesnt require hashgocha. Milk, if you dont keep CY, is ok anywhere in the USA / Canada. As for flavored coffee, I believe all DD flavors are kosher anyway.
Remember, the stuff behind the counter is NOT necessarily the stuff for sale in front of the counter. The bagged coffee at Wawa is not packed the same as the coffee used behind the counter.February 18, 2013 6:49 am at 6:49 am #1022386
popa and others,
you’re right, i misspoke. i apologize.
i wanted to point out that most don’t agree with his ideas and psack, especially regarding kashrusFebruary 18, 2013 12:24 pm at 12:24 pm #1022387
We noticed DD on Ave P between McDonald and East 2nd was using the very same “Cholov Yisroel” milk container ( for those who asked for it ) with the same exp date every day for a long time, for a long time after the exp date, somehow the same bottle was always full and it never spoiled…mamesh a miracle
Also another “kosher” DD was caught putting an employee’s Bacon in the same microwave they used for customers …….that’s when they lost the chof k
In short I would not eat from DD even with a hechsher….unless a yid owns and runs it (which I don’t think is the case in any ) and a good hashgocha
If they are willing to save a dollar by keep on refilling the same empty cholov yisoel milk container with cholov stam milk, and serve cholov stam milk to customers who clearly think they are getting CY milk, I wonder what else are they willing to save a buck or more on when no one is lookingFebruary 18, 2013 1:09 pm at 1:09 pm #1022388
Why are you saying the whipped cream and flavors are not kosher? That’s false. The whipped cream, at least in the dd near me is kosher and chalav stam, as was the french vanilla flavor. I didn’t check about the other but all you need to so is ask. No need to assume its not.
On another note I have a question. I don’t understand how people drink coffee in diners or restaurant out of china mugs!! ( not kosher places I am talking about). At dd and Starbucks the coffee is poured into a to go cup, but in a diner the china mugs are washed in a dish washer along with everything else!February 18, 2013 1:42 pm at 1:42 pm #1022389
Some posters have wrote a statement that can be easily misconstrued that black or any type of known kosher hot coffee can be basically had anywhere(which means including many starbucks and similar cafe type establishments)The OU StarK CRC all have published guidelines one should follow or issues to be aware of even when purchasing even plain black coffee from such an establishment. Just as an example Re starbucks: One can find a quick basic do and don’t chart from the star k for starbucks on their website just google star K and starbucksFebruary 18, 2013 2:42 pm at 2:42 pm #1022390
thanks morahrach for clarifying that point the hazelnut and vanilla flavors are universally under the OU.February 18, 2013 4:15 pm at 4:15 pm #1022391
In dishwashers, there would be no issue, since the soap would render anything treif pagum.February 18, 2013 4:22 pm at 4:22 pm #1022392
A person needs to find one consistent halakhic hermeneutic (“mehalech”) and stick with it.
Case in point- If I follow the Gemara/Rambam/ShA and eat something made on hezkat halavi with meat (Hullin 111), then I should be consistent and also not use our eruvin. Or, on the converse, if a person believes that they can clap on Shabbos, there should be no reason why they shouldn’t eat vegetarian cheese that isn’t gevinat yisrael, since the same principle matirs both of these things (the approach of Tosafot is that changing circumstances can override Talmudic gezerot; Tosafot allow clapping on shabbos in contradiction to 2 gemaras in Betzah 30b and 36b, and in Avodah Zarah 35b, s.v. chada, Tosafot allow vegetarian cheese made by nochrim; Rabbenu Tam says that the gezera was due to the use of nevelot, and therefore, that wouldn’t be a concern in certain cases).
There is a gemara in Horayos which condemns one who is maikil all the time.February 18, 2013 4:31 pm at 4:31 pm #1022393
That would only be true if the soap was nivla before the taam of the food, which is not always the case.February 18, 2013 4:37 pm at 4:37 pm #1022394
In dishwashers, there would be no issue, since the soap would render anything treif pagum.
I think this is correct as well.February 18, 2013 5:13 pm at 5:13 pm #1022395
***Correction: This story above (and copied here below) happened at Kings Highway and East 10th and NOT on Ave P between McDonald and East 2nd ****
We noticed DD on Kings Highway between Coney Island Ave and East 10th was using the very same “Cholov Yisroel” milk container ( for those who asked for it ) with the same exp date every day for a long time, for a long time after the exp date, somehow the same bottle was always full and it never spoiled…mamesh a miracle
If they are willing to save a dollar by keep on refilling the same empty cholov yisoel milk container with cholov stam milk, and serve cholov stam milk to customers who clearly think they are getting CY milk, I wonder what else are they willing to save a buck or more on when no one is lookingFebruary 18, 2013 5:17 pm at 5:17 pm #1022396
Most places do not even use dishwashers, and the coffee cups are used only for tea or coffee.February 18, 2013 5:18 pm at 5:18 pm #1022397
rebdoniel -“Hot coffee can be consumed in any establishment, especially in a disposable cup. Sugar and milk in DD shops both generally have hechsherim, and many hold that both these items in America don’t require a hechsher anyways.”
I don’t know about Treif DD’s shops, but I do know about Starbucks. The cRc posts on their website -that one should Not buy hot coffee in a Starbucks that sells Treif sandwiches. We had this discussion a few times in the CR. The same could be for Treif DD’s. And even if R’ Abadi (& of course our own PBA) holds differently -he is a Daas Yochid. So unless you’re Talmidim of him -Do Not drink coffee from anywhere. Or you can ask your LOR what to do.
I personally think people come here in the first place to ask Shailos because they are looking for Kulos, instead of asking their LOR!February 18, 2013 6:12 pm at 6:12 pm #1022398
Health: Bkavod, I think the CRC is the daas yachid here. And even they concur that what they are saying is a chumrah and is not the halacha.February 18, 2013 7:03 pm at 7:03 pm #1022399
pba: My last comment was meant to be addressed to you.February 18, 2013 7:10 pm at 7:10 pm #1022400
Why does everyone quote that soap is Pogem? That’s nice for Sefardim, but the Rama rejects that opinion.February 18, 2013 7:39 pm at 7:39 pm #1022401
DaasYochid – Even if the food wan’t nivla until afterwards, the food itself became pagum from the soap.
Sam – Because we can judge pagum by our own eyes. I can’t tell you I know exactly what kind of soap the Rema referred to or what the people his his place and time were okay with tasting, but I can tell you for certain that any food that acquired dishwashing soap flavor is one that normal people don’t want to eat.February 18, 2013 7:46 pm at 7:46 pm #1022402
PBA -“Health: Bkavod, I think the CRC is the daas yachid here. And even they concur that what they are saying is a chumrah and is not the halacha.”
Excuse me, whether it’s a Chumra or Halacha I don’t know, but what I do know is that it’s Not a Daas Yochid that recommends not to use this coffee. I don’t know how you have the Chutzpa, even if you’re a Poisek – which noone here can possibly know because e/o is anon, to say that this is a Daas Yochid?
From the Star-k website:
“It is this clean-up procedure that has soured many kashrus agencies on Starbucks coffee. While leniencies exist to allow the coffee in spite of the clean-up issues, Rabbi Moshe Heinemann, shlita, Rabbinic Administrator of the Star-K, has decided against using them.
But take heart, for all is not lost. Firstly, the above is true only at full-service Starbucks stores that serve treif sandwiches and the like. However, at the smaller Starbucks kiosks, typically located in airports and train stations, sandwiches are usually not offered. The good news is that the coffee making equipment at these establishments remains free of treif blios (non-kosher absorption), and you are permitted to drink the coffee there.February 18, 2013 7:48 pm at 7:48 pm #1022403
Health: I say that they concur it is a chumrah, since that is what their document about it says, in the footnotes.
And I say they are a daas yochid, because every competent person I have discussed it with is bewildered by their psak, and that includes at least one prominent mainstream posek.February 18, 2013 8:00 pm at 8:00 pm #1022404
I refer to Note H on the chart:
“Although the brew basket is only used as kli sheni, the cRc recommends purchasing items which are free of all shailos.”
Well, that is a fine recommendation, but b’kavod, I think it should be displayed a bit more prominently–perhaps in the title.
See also Note A.February 18, 2013 8:01 pm at 8:01 pm #1022405
PBA – “Health: I say that they concur it is a chumrah, since that is what their document about it says, in the footnotes.”
Whatever it is – they say Not to drink it in a regular situation. They are saying you should be Machmir. Who are you to say you shouldn’t?
“And I say they are a daas yochid, because every competent person I have discussed it with is bewildered by their psak, and that includes at least one prominent mainstream posek.”
Let’s say I believe you on the mainstream Poisek, why isn’t he the Daas Yochid, instead of all these Kashrus agencies?February 18, 2013 10:21 pm at 10:21 pm #1022406
Who am I say you shouldn’t be machmir? When a kashrus agency under highly suspicious conditions proclaims you should be machmir on something with absolutely no basis for the chumrah–I can say you don’t have to be.
(The highly suspicious conditions is that they had already announced it was assur previously, and then gotten flack because it wasn’t, so they released a several page memo, and got more flack because it was still not assur, so they released a 20 page memo and buried in a footnote the fact that it is not min hadin. Call that whatever you want, but that’s the new term I’m using for suspicious conditions.)February 18, 2013 11:36 pm at 11:36 pm #1022407
I would never drink my coffee IN a not kosher DD. If there is a window i will get it from there.
I am not going to drink a coffee there until i ask my rav.
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