Ear Piercing

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  • #612040

    BoruchSchwartz
    Participant

    at what age is it best to pierce a girl’s ears?

    #1002111

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    After 6 years, if they won’t leave.

    #1002112

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    newborn or teens

    #1002113

    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    As a baby, so they look cute, or whenever they want their ears pierced.

    I’m of the opinion younger is better.

    #1002114

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    If you don’t do it as a baby, wait ’till they ask.

    #1002115

    SaysMe
    Member

    not as a baby! Because the hole can shift as their ears grow. When they ask. Or offer after age 8

    #1002116

    notasheep
    Member

    Not as a baby cause then you give yourself the extra work of looking after the holes, putting on spirit and turning the earrings. Once they are old enough to understand that they have to take care of their earrings is best.

    #1002117

    takahmamash
    Participant

    Six months.

    #1002118

    TheGoq
    Participant

    On the plane ride home from seminary just watch out for turbulence.

    #1002119

    writersoul
    Member

    My parents let us at bas mitzvah. My sisters basically went the next day to get holes drilled in their heads. I declined.

    I think that at that point you can rely on kids to stay on top of it and understand the consequences (yes, it’s going to hurt).

    #1002120

    oomis
    Participant

    I will state for the record that I am personally against piercing the ears, because it reminds me of eved nirtzeh. Sorry, but it just is an image I cannot get away from. That said, it is far easier IMO to pierce an infant’s ears, because they won’t pull at the earring studs as a toddler or older child might, and it will be easy to take care of the healing areas. On the other hand, I also feel this is something which is being done to the baby without her consent, and unlike a bris on boys, is NOT required by halacha, so I guess it bothers me a bit. As you can see, I am not so in favor of doing this.

    But in the end, if you are going to do it anyway, do it in their infancy. Less traumatic for the baby. My granddaughter’s ears were pierced at around 6 months, and she did really well with them. I am still opposed, though, and my kids all know that, though all my daughters have pierced ears, which they did as teens.I opposed it, but I am not a dictator. They were old enough to make their own decisions at the time. The thought makes me ill.

    #1002121

    WIY
    Member

    popa_bar_abba

    Don’t think this halacha applies to women only male slaves.

    #1002122

    2ND OPPINION
    Participant

    oomis- an eved’s ear is pierced in the cartilage part, not the lobe, which is just skin.

    #1002123

    BoruchSchwartz
    Participant

    My 4 month old just had them pierced yesterday

    #1002124

    oomis
    Participant

    I know all that, but it STILL eckles me just the same!!!!! And the cartilage is even MORE yucky to think of being pierced… EWWWW!

    #1002125

    RisingSun613
    Member

    if someone avoids getting their ears pierced, they can also avoid the challenge of wearing big/long earrings– that aren’t tznius.

    note: in not against earrings, and im not saying that most earings aren’t tznius and should be avoided, im just presenting an idea– that is generally overlooked that should be taken into account.

    #1002126

    2ND OPPINION
    Participant

    That’s the halacha. As far as being disgusted, didn’t Rivka Imeinu wear a nose band? That would be cartilage piercing.

    #1002127

    LevAryeh
    Member

    RisingSun613 – Good point. Also if you never have kids, you don’t have to worry about them ever not being tznius.

    #1002128

    I didn’t get my ears pierced as a baby and I always, always wanted them. My mother let me at age eight, but even though I realllllly wanted them, I was terrified. I only got them done when I was thirteen, and it was very painful for me. I still remember how much it hurt.

    I suggest having it done as a baby. Even though Oomis brought up the point that you’re not getting the child’s consent, I have never met a girl who was upset that her parents pierced her ears as a baby.

    #1002129

    oomis-My father is of the same opinion, so was not allowed to get them pierced. When I turned bas mitzva my mother offered it to me, but i turned it down because i saw his point and it wasn’t something i really cared about. The Goq isn’t too far off, though i wasn’t actually on the plane back. A few weeks before i left Eretz Yisrael i got them pierced, when it wasn’t because all of my friends had earrings or any other sort of peer pressure, it was just because i wanted to.

    I don’t think you should pierce a baby’s ears. Let it be her decision, once she’s old enough to decide if that’s what she wants, after being able to think it through. Just my humble opinion. Sorry future daughters of mine… your ears will not be pierced from birth 🙂

    #1002130

    Why are so many people okay with causing pain to infants?

    #1002131

    SaysMe
    Member

    secular frummy- do u know how painful it is? Cuz not very!

    #1002132

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Ears are made either for earrings or for pencils.

    #1002133

    RisingSun613
    Member

    LAB- there is a vast difference between the two, having kids is necessary and required by halacha while piercing your ears is not. therefore, there is nothing wrong with avoiding it for a higher purpose– tznius (of preventing someone from wearing big/long earrings). Again, there is nothing wrong with wearing earrings regarding they are appropriate, just introducing a concept. That’s all.

    #1002134

    haifagirl
    Participant

    I really, really, really wanted pierced ears. My parents wouldn’t allow it. I finally did it right after I moved out when I was 19.

    Looking back, I’m glad that’s how it worked out.

    #1002135

    SaysMe,

    I do know how painful it is, as I have experienced the pain.

    #1002136

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    RisingSun613, having kids isn’t required by halacha for women. Do you think only men should have kids, since the women have no mitzvah, and they might chas v’shalom have daughters who wear long earrings?

    Also, there are clip on earrings, so I think the only real solution would be to cut off everyone’s ears. 🙂

    My wife does think that tznius applies to jewelry, and is careful with what she wears, and lets our daughter wear. I just don’t see piercing the ears as in any way shape or form being a compromise in tznius.

    #1002137

    SaysMe
    Member

    then your experience is the exception, not the norm :-/

    #1002138

    BaalHabooze
    Participant

    oomis – funny, I overheard someone just 2 weeks ago on shabbos (parshas mishpotim), that the idea of a woman having their ears pierced is related to that of the eved nirtza, since one of Chava’s curses was that women are meshubad to their husbands. (I have NO IDEA if he was joking, or quoting someone on that one, but you can be sure I didn’t use that shtikel torah at MY shabbos table!)

    #1002139

    BaalHabooze
    Participant

    My humble opinion (as is my wife’s opinion too), is that babies just look plain stupid in earrings. Babies are cute and don’t need anything but a clean diaper and stretchy.

    They only start looking semi-cute at age 8-9, but not before.

    #1002140

    Oh, give me a break. Long earrings can be perfectly tzanua (and they look great with tichels).

    #1002141

    notasheep
    Member

    I had mine done when I was 6. So if it was painful, I should remember the experience. I don’t. It stings for a couple of seconds and then goes away. I agree with BaalHabooze. My girls look beautiful without earrings, and I have the added easiness to my life of not having to look for lost earrings or fret about holes closing up.

    As a nursery teacher, I have seen many girls who have lost an earring but their mother leaves the other one in so the hole doesn’t close up. Why make life harder for yourself.

    #1002142

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    From a medical perspective, there are many ways to prevent that.

    #1002143

    Redleg
    Participant

    Okay, that covers women having their ears pieced. What about men? When I was a young man, a man with an earring/s was outlandish. Nowadays it’s quite common to see men with pierced ears wearing masculine style earrings. what say you all?

    #1002144

    golfer
    Participant

    I’m very interested in the concept RisingS613 has introduced.

    Following that same line of thought, I’m introducing another concept:

    Girls should specifically be on the lookout for exceedingly ugly, unattractive men to marry. This will result in an increased possibility that they will have unattractive baby girls, who will grow up to be exceedingly ugly women, resulting in less tznius problems.

    (It should be noted that the above suggestion will, as a bonus, help mitigate the shidduch crisis. And, as was discussed in another thread, the ugly men have more yiras Shamayim too.)

    #1002145

    Avram in MD
    Participant

    SecularFrummy,

    Why are so many people okay with causing pain to infants?

    I don’t think that this is a fair allegation to make regarding the posters in this thread. Based on your statement’s implications, infants should not be vaccinated (painful) or restrained in car seats (upsetting) without consent.

    I think it’s totally valid to argue that pierced ears are not worth the potential trauma to an infant, and I would agree with you. Others disagree, believing that the young girl will almost certainly want pierced ears when older, and the benefits of getting it done in infancy (some were stated above) outweigh the prospect for transient pain that will not be remembered when the girl is older. While I personally disagree with the latter argument, it doesn’t make its supporters callous towards infants.

    #1002146

    squeak
    Participant

    Golfer, I wrote a TIC article on that exact topic 3 years ago, baruch shekivant. If men would reject shidduchim with girls based on being too attractive we would solve both the shidduch crisis (rejecting attractive girls would reduce the pool of eligible girls by 5%-10%) and the tznius crisis (this generation of girls would do everything to mitigate their good looks, and the next generation wouldn’t have those offensive genes anymore).

    #1002147

    oomis
    Participant

    Golfer, it should be noted that some really gorgeous people came from otherwise plain or even unattractive parents, and some really gorgeous looking parents, had gawky looking kids. It’s all in how Hashem combines the genes. And it’s all in the eyes of the beholder, anyhow.

    Baal Habooze – wise of you not to tell that over at the Shabbos Tisch, especially when you were being served the hot soup!

    #1002148

    oomis
    Participant

    I have never met a girl who was upset that her parents pierced her ears as a baby. “

    Because that was the norm for her. There are infants females who have terible things done to them in Third World countries and in past Oriental cultures. They, too, believed it to be the norm, though one would doubtless think they were mutilated.

    #1002149

    oomis
    Participant

    I have a friend who is actually furious with her daughter for not wanting to pierce the baby’s ears. I think this is extreme.

    #1002150

    oomis
    Participant

    That’s the halacha. As far as being disgusted, didn’t Rivka Imeinu wear a nose band? That would be cartilage piercing. “

    OY, I so do not love that look! Maybe the band was not a pierce one.

    #1002151

    oomis
    Participant

    I don’t think that this is a fair allegation to make regarding the posters in this thread. Based on your statement’s implications, infants should not be vaccinated (painful) or restrained in car seats (upsetting) without consent.”

    Avram, to be fair, this is apples and oranges. No one NEEDS to have pierced ears. But vaccines, on the other hand have saved lives. Car seats, save lives. Causing very temporary discomfort for a lifetime of safer health, is a small price. And though the bris is a mitzvah and THAT is the only reason that we need for doing it, there is no question that there are many physical and health benefits that accrue from that temporary pain.

    The only benefit I see from having pierced ears – not losing your earrings as often as other people do. I don’t have them, and I have beautiful earrings anyway. And BTW, it’s very hard to talk on the phone with earrings on. And babies just LOVE to pull on earrings. OWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!

    #1002152

    Avram in MD
    Participant

    Avram, to be fair, this is apples and oranges. No one NEEDS to have pierced ears. But vaccines, on the other hand have saved lives. Car seats, save lives.

    I agree with you, but would you go so far as to accuse your friend who is furious with her daughter for not wanting to pierce the granddaughter’s ears of not caring about causing pain to the baby?

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