Eating on Erev YK

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  • This topic contains 52 replies, has 19 voices, and was last updated by  Sam2 7 years ago.
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  • #599807

    BaalHabooze
    Participant

    yaaaaaaaaaaaay my favorite mitzvah!!!

    But seriously, is the mitzva to literally eat the WHOLE day? So should I snack on popcorn ‘n stuff or chew gum throughout the day, what are the guidelines?

    #898661

    adorable
    Participant

    I remember once hearing that a gadol made sure he had a candy in his mouth the whole day. so yes why not? cant hurt? can only add zechusim.

    #898662

    am yisrael chai
    Participant

    some have a minhag of two seudos, some do one

    While eating, you should have the correct intention

    Along with the deeper spiritual connection

    #898663

    yitayningwut
    Participant

    I would tayna that you can’t go wrong with this mitzva.

    If ?????? ?????? ?????? ???? ???? ???? then l’choirah a mitzva should be no different, no?

    #898664

    🙂 BH we have a bris tomorrow morning that I have to and want to go to (one I was not expecting as the baby was born right at krias haTorah Friday and rumors started to fly that it was a premature birth LA). I am going to count that as the first seuda – 2 seudas further spaced apart will be more comfortable for me.

    #898665

    Sam2
    Participant

    Yitay: I don’t want to go into it now but there are reasons to say against your Kal V’chomer.

    It’s a Machlokes Haposkim whether the Mitzvah is Davka to have a (special) Seduah or whether there is a Kiyum for everything you eat all day.

    #898667

    yungerman1
    Participant

    yitayningwut- That may apply to to eating, but not necessarily to other mitzvos. The Chofetz Chaim says that we pasken that by Mitzvos D’Oraissa Mitzvos Tzrichas Kavana. Without Kavana you may not be yotzie at all.

    In regards to Hilchos Sukka, for example, if you dont have the kavana of ?? ?????? ?????? ?? ??? ????? you are not yotzei (and its as if you are not sitting in a sukkah at all!)

    #898668

    Aishes Chayil
    Participant

    Adorable, thats correct. It was the Brisker Rov.

    #898669

    adorable
    Participant

    thank you.

    #898670

    Feif Un
    Participant

    When I was in yeshiva, once on Erev Yom Kippur I got a box of donuts. I sat down, and said hineni muchan u’mezuman l’kayem mitzvas achilah b’erev Yom Kippur, and stuffed my face with them.

    #898671

    Sam2
    Participant

    Yungerman: That’s not so Pashut by Sukkah either.

    I remember thinking that if you assume like the Brisker Rav and that it is actually a Kiyum of an Asei D’Oraisa that you should be allowed to eat even before Davening on Erev Yom Kippur because the Asei could be Docheh the Lo Sa’asei of Lo Soch’lu Al Hadam. I never actually do it though.

    #898672

    BaalHabooze
    Participant

    …just keep on eating, yidden,…thaaaaat’s it, don’t stop, keep those jaws gnawing, you’re doing GRRRRREAT, keep going,…and a one, and a two, and a one, and a two, now over on the left cheek, chew, chew ,chew,…

    #898673

    GumBall
    Member

    My sisters teacher told her that on every Yom Kippur he always sucks a candy because every second you eat your getting a mitzvah!! EEEWWW i cant eat the whole day!! Ill just chew gum!!LOL

    #898674

    yungerman1
    Participant

    Sam2- Thanks for the correction. I meant to write “according to some”. I believe its mentioned in Halichos Shlomo from R’ SZ Auerbach ztl.

    Mod-80- Please stick up for me and my usage of his initals!!!

    #898675

    Sam2
    Participant

    Be careful about sucking candies. It’s a nice idea but a lot of the sugars in them can function as laxatives when taken in too high a quantity. Having Diarrhea on Yom Kippur is a very easy way to get dehydrated very quickly.

    #898676

    Sam2
    Participant

    Yungerman: That’s R’ Shlomo Zalman Leshitaso by Mitzvos Tzrichos Kavanah who says (first Siman in the Minchas Shlomo) that the Din should be that you’re Over an Asei D’Oraisa if you wear Tzitzis in a bathroom (Mitzvos Tzrichos Kavana and since you can’t have Kavana in a bathroom you are wearing a Beged Shel 4 Kanfos without Tzitzis). For whatever reason, we clearly don’t hold by his understanding of Mitzvos Tzrichos Kavana. (And yes, I do realize that there are several potential ways to distinguish between Tzitzis and Sukkah and say even though we don’t hold like him there we hold like him by Sukkah.)

    And I already made my M’cha’ah. What you choose to do with it is not my responsibility.

    #898677

    adorable
    Participant

    Feif- you have me rolling.

    #898678

    sam2

    youre talking about sugar-alcohols

    they are found only in “sugarless” or diet candies

    regular candy doesnt have that problem

    and even with “sugarless” candie youd have to eat a very large amount to even have a minor effect

    #898679

    yunger

    to bold: use “strong” instead of “bold”

    #898680

    yungerman1
    Participant

    Sam2- Ok, ok. I was kidding. I see you are still upset about my usage of the initials. May I suggest you take a cigarette break? You may even be mekayim a mitzvah according to those who try to equate smoking with eating!!!! (fyi- that was a joke)

    #898681

    adorable
    Participant

    yungerman- are there really people who do? wow!

    i usually love to eat but have no appetite today!!!

    #898682

    mik5
    Participant

    Did the mitzvah to eat start at sundown yesterday or at dawn today (the 9th of Tishrei)?

    #898683

    Sam2
    Participant

    M80: I don’t know all the biology behind it. What I know is that both myself and several people I know have had this issue in the past. It could just be correlation and not causation, but be wary. I use Mentos now and have never had a problem with them. I do make sure to take a 5-minute break every few hours and brush my teeth. I don’t know if that actually accomplishes anything but sucking on Mentos all day cannot be good for them.

    #898684

    mik5
    Participant

    Does the mitzvah include drinking, or only eating?

    #898685

    Sam2
    Participant

    Mik5: Some Poskim hold there might be a Mitzvah last night but it’s a minority. If you hold like the Rishonim who say that the Mitzvah is Davka B’Seudah then it wouldn’t matter what or how much you eat or drink as long as you have the Seudah. If you hold there is a Mitzvah for everything you eat all day then it should apply to drinking as well. (If I recall correctly the Gemara uses the Lashon of Kol Ha’ochel V’shoseh…”)

    #898686

    yitayningwut
    Participant

    Sam2-

    I didn’t think it was a kal vachomer. I was just making a tzu-shtel. And I’m curious what your upshlug is.

    yungerman1-

    Yes, I b’davka said this mitzva, as that raya would not apply to sitting in the sukka. B’pashtus.

    As for smoking, do you know of a posek who actually says klohr that it’s like drinking? I happened to have just gone through the sugya and came out not like that. I know the Mishna Brura says to refrain on fast days but I was under the impression that he wasn’t talking me’ikkar hadin altz drinking but rather that it’s excessive pleasure.

    #898687

    yitayningwut
    Participant

    I heard that the Gra brings a raya from the Gemara in Kesubos (5a) that the mitzva is only by day. The Gemara says:

    ?”? ???? ??? ???? ??? ??????? ??? ????? ???? ???? ???? ????? ??? ????? ?? ??? … ??? ??? ??? ????? ??? ??? ??? ?????

    And Rashi explains:

    ??? ??? ????? – ????? ????? ??????? ???? ?? ????

    ??? ??? ??? ????? – ??????? ????? ??? ???? ??????? ???

    Btw I would just like to give public recognition to ???????? from which I copy and paste most times I wish to quote from Shas. It is an invaluable resource.

    #898688

    Sam2
    Participant

    Yatay: Rashi there is clearly pointing out that the Din is to ahve a special Seduah (although I think he appears to be slightly Soseir himself somewhere else). And Achilas Matzah (Rosh Hashana 28b at the very top, I believe) would seem to disprove you, but see the Rishonim and Poskim on that Gemara and Sugya and I would assume the Din is similar here.

    #898689

    blabla
    Participant

    What if you don’t fast tomorrow? Is it still a mitzvah to eat? And get fat?!

    #898690

    blabla,

    In general I think it is a mitzva even for someone who isnt fasting. But based on your other thread, its probably only a mitzva for you personally if it doesn’t have any negative effects on you. If it does, your health comes first.

    #898691

    yitayningwut
    Participant

    Sam2-

    I don’t understand. Aderaba, from that Gemara it should come out like me; the Gemara has a hava amina that only by achilas matza you are yotzei and Rashi explains with the reasoning I gave, and comes out that by tekias shofar it’s also that way, because ???? ??? ?????? ????? (Agav, now I realize where that idea floating around in my head came from). It would therefore seem that even if we pasken ???? ?????? ????? you could be yotzei matza without kavana. Furthermore, even if you should tell me that by matza we wouldn’t say such a thing, I could still hear that eating on Erev Yom Kippur is better, because over there the Torah gives us a specific reason, so one could say that the Torah was makpid on more than just the hana’as achilah (Doesn’t someone say this by sukka?), ???”? here where there is simply a mitzva to eat, drink, and be merry.

    I hear your dichui of the raya from Kesubos.

    #898692

    brotherofurs
    Participant

    i asked and drinking IS included

    #898693

    brotherofurs
    Participant

    i’m getting a little sick of these lollypops! 😀

    #898694

    Sam2
    Participant

    Blabla: It’s a Machlokes Haposkim. We generally seem to assume that the Mitzvah is connected to the Mitzvah of fasting and that they go together (they are Darshaned from the same Possuk-sort of). In the vast majority of cases, it can’t hurt to eat so the person should eat a lot just in case. In your case, do whatever your doctor/psychiatrist/Rabbi (preferably after all three discuss with each other if possible) tells you to.

    #898695

    Toi
    Participant

    sam2- youre dechiya thing is off- its a lav sheyaish bo kareis. id like to point out agav, that i cant seem to find any lav or drasha that actually assurs achils. rashi says that the ribuyim are on milacha. i challenge you to find a lav on eating. so my upshlug is lideeduch.

    also it was R yeshua leib diskin who made sure to eat raisins all day. see city of fire/heaven?dont rtemember the title. also see seraph of brisk.

    #898696

    Sam2
    Participant

    Sorry Toi, you’re gonna have to be more specific. I’m not sure exactly what you’re referring to. Lo Soch’lu Al Hadam? Eating before Davening is a Lav Sheyeish Bo Kareis? I don’t think so. And it’s a Drasha somewhere that Lo Soch’lu Ad Sheyispalelu Al Dimchem.

    #898697

    yitayningwut
    Participant

    ????? ? ?”?

    #898698

    Toi
    Participant

    woops i thought ypu meant on YK. dumb!

    #898699

    BaalHabooze
    Participant

    *bump*

    some tzaddikim have a minhag to fast on ?’ ???? , or ?”? ???? of selichos. Eating on Erev Y”K is considered like a fast, (that’s 2 fasts), and Yom Kippur, completes the third fast. It is brought down in seforim, one who fasts 3 consecutive days is zoiche to many brochos and great things.

    #898700

    Wisey
    Participant

    ??????, ???????? ???? ???? ????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ??? ???? ????? ???

    So I don’t understand why someone would suck candies if they aren’t consuming the proper amount in the required time limit to be considered ‘eating’ (like matzo on Seder night that has to be eaten in a certain time limit to have been considered as having fulfilled the biblical requirement.) Unless there is also a Rabinic ordinance of eating on the ninth of tishrei that can be fulfilled with lesser quantities. However, I haven’t been informed as such.

    #898701

    Sam2
    Participant

    Yitay: I forgot this thread but I saw in the Ran in the middle of Yevamos (it was definitely the Ran, I think it was in the middle of Yevamos but it could have been anywhere) where he makes that precise Kal V’chomer by saying Hamis’asek B’chalavim… and says if that’s Midas Hadin then Midas Harachamim Lo Kol Shekein.

    #898702

    One can use tea biscuits – just put a piece of biscuit in your mouth and leave it there. That’s what I’m doing right now at work. 🙂

    Anyway, on erev Y”K, I always have a weird issue of being unable to eat a lot. I eat the same as any other day. I might drink a glass more than usual, but aside from that, I do not eat/drink different from any other day. (And I never collapsed on Y”K).

    #898703

    Chortkov
    Participant

    I remember thinking that if you assume like the Brisker Rav and that it is actually a Kiyum of an Asei D’Oraisa that you should be allowed to eat even before Davening on Erev Yom Kippur because the Asei could be Docheh the Lo Sa’asei of Lo Soch’lu Al Hadam. I never actually do it though.

    Somebody asked me during the ????? in Yeshiva yesterday a similar Shaila – If the only food you can get hold of is a ????? or ?????, would you be allowed to eat it using the principle of ??? ???? ?? ???????

    Yatay: Rashi there is clearly pointing out that the Din is to ahve a special Seduah (although I think he appears to be slightly Soseir himself somewhere else). And Achilas Matzah (Rosh Hashana 28b at the very top, I believe) would seem to disprove you, but see the Rishonim and Poskim on that Gemara and Sugya and I would assume the Din is similar here.

    The ??”? is not ????, and i tayned the same as you to my ?????? when he said this, but the Gaon is ????? the ??”?. As far as i know, it is a ??????.

    Can you please explain your ???? from ????? ????

    #898704

    Wisey
    Participant

    Yekke2:

    I was just using achilas matzah as another case where there is a mitzvah to eat and there it requires a specific shiur in a cdei achilas pras.

    #898705

    Sam2
    Participant

    Yekke: I can’t. Apparently the Ran is against however I understood that Gemara a year ago.

    #898706

    Sam2
    Participant

    Wisey: Every Mitzvas Achilah has a specific Shiur within K’dei Achilas P’ras. That’s the Halachic definition of “Achilah” (having a K’zayis Bichdei Achilas P’ras).

    #898707

    Wisey
    Participant

    So how can achilah on Erev YK mean something else?

    #898708

    Sam2
    Participant

    Wisey: Because maybe it’s not an actual Mitzvas Achilah. Maybe the Mitzvah is a Kiyum of being full (the opposite of the Issur of Yom Kippur which is not an Issur Achilah but a Kiyum in being M’uneh).

    #898709

    Wisey
    Participant

    1)Well, ????? is a coyseves so the opposite should also be.

    2) Is washing yourself also a mitzvah because it’s the opposite of ?????.

    3) Would eating something you don’t like or if you are overstuffed already, not be a mitzvah.

    4)”The Mitzvah is a kiyum of being full” so if I don’t fill myself I didn’t do a Mitzvah?

    #898710

    Sam2
    Participant

    Washing is a D’rabannan of Inui. Overstuffed would for sure not be a Mitzvah, because that’s not called an Achilah. What does it matter if you don’t like the food? Inui is determined by fullness, not enjoying the food. And by “being full” I meant not being so hungry. Maybe you would need to eat a Koseves in K’dei Achilas P’ras but I don’t think so because that’s not how the Mitzvah is worded. But it does bear looking into.

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