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    This post is a continuation to the comments in the “ENTERTAINING VIDEOS: Neturei Karta” article. It got way too long so i figured i’ll bring it over to the CR. If you care to read up, here’s the link http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/Headlines+&+Breaking+Stories/104234/ENTERTAINING+VIDEOS:+Neturei+Karta+Confusion+Outside+UN.html#comments

    Please read up before commenting.

    Popa, thank you for bringing yourself to light. I could have not said it better myself. Thanks 🙂

    I will respond to all of it when I have a few free minutes, but I do need to point out that you never answered my question. you believe they are responsible for our blood being spilled. The question is, exactly how is NK responsible for our blood? Can you give me one murder that can me linked directly to the NK. I already gave you many Zionist examples.


    Today’s NK are clowns looking for attention. They make for good Peerim entertainment and do not even deserve the title of roidef – only shmoiger, meaning shoiteh, menuval vegas ruach suits these clowns.

    Indeed, the tzioinim are responsible for far more loss of Jewish life and property than these clowns are. These clowns had some impact and did create a chilul Hashem at first, but today they’re way past the expiration date on their act.


    Thanks for joining us in the CR.

    Ok, I will spell it out as best I can, although I was not aware that this is contentious.

    A. We will start with the premise, that the IDF responds often with less force than necessary and proper under the circumstances. And that the reason for that is we are afraid of making the world too mad at us, and alienating the few friends we have left- particularly the USA.

    Our example throughout this will be when we boarded the ship, the Mavi Marmara, which was bringing presumed weapons to Gaza.

    B. We will then make the simple step of assuming, that IDF soldiers are often injured or killed during these operations, in ways they would not have been if proper force had been used.

    So in our example, we will say that had the ship been torpedoed, as is proper for an invading vessel, the IDF soldier who was thrown off the deck and fell several stories, would not have been hurt.

    C. We will then say, that our civilians are also often hurt as a result of this, since the military operations cannot be as effective.

    In our example, we will say that if subsequent boats succeed in bringing rockets or explosives in, it may be because we are not willing to torpedo them. This is not a great example, since the Mavi Marmara incident was actually successful in stopping that boat.

    D. We will assume that public demonstrations, lobbying, and press, affect public opinion. This is presumably why people make these demonstrations.

    There were much bad press about the Mavi Marmara, with all sorts of anti semites and NK reshaim accusing us of using “disproportionate force”. As if one is supposed to use force only proportionate to the people trying to kill you.

    E. We will assume that governments represent their citizens interests. We can see that governments act in the interests of their citizens, and -for example- if the French people are opposed to us, their government will represent them in that. Thus, we should assume that demonstrations, lobbying, and press influence public opinion, which in turn influence government action.

    (alternatively, we can imagine that demonstrations merely serve to convince governments of what public opinion is, but the effect is the same.)

    Many world governments singled us out for criticism in the aftermath of this incident, and it will probably negatively affect how we are able to respond to future incidents. Additionally, it hurt our relationship with Turkey, which may not have happened if the rest of the world didn’t agree with the reshaim of NK.

    Therefore, we can easily say, that bad PR, leads to dangerous and ineffective military action, which leads to lives lost.

    The reshaim of NK are among the criticizers of the Mavi Marmara incident, which cannot be criticized with a straight face if one has the slightest inkling of what happened on that boat. I found the reshaim’s protests on their website.

    Now, your colleague “Peacemaker” seems to not care about what happens to Jewish people who agree with the “zionists”. http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/General+News/104434/Turkey-Releases-Names-Of-IDF-Members-Involved-In-Flotilla.html But excuse me if I do care.

    If you disagree with this, please specify which step. Please do not litter your response with the issue of whether we are safer with the christians or moslems. That really is not the issue. You can put that in another post.


    Like 600 Kilo Bear said, what the NK doesn’t affect anything, and certainly not world politics and military events.



    Right off the bat, I need to stress that I value life very greatly. Life is precious and the tragedy of a life cut short by an act of evil is incomprehensible. My heart aches for every life lost. This is true for all of life, all of the 7 billion humans on the face of earth, but it becomes more bold when its closer to heart, such as the the man and women in the United Stated military who are out there defending my freedom and liberty, but its even closer to heart when its my brothers and sisters Achanu Bnai Yisroal in whichever corner of the universe they are.

    Have you ever heard of the term Circular Reasoning or “begging the question”? its basically logical fallacy, the notion of the logic is false. You can’t prove something by using the very same thing you’re trying to disprove.

    You and the others are trying very strongly to establish that the Zionist and the Arab Jewish hatred or Anti-semitism are not really related, because the hatred is no different than before the Jewish state, they just hate us because were jewish, it was always the same and will always be the same. You then turn around to say that the dynamic of the anti-semitism is changed because of a few silly NK people talking non-sense. You can’t do that, it defies logical reasoning. Besides for the fact that its circular reasoning, it is also illogical that a full blown state with a massive army to fend off Arabs doesnt change anti-semitism, yet a very very small group of people do.

    Having said that, you still didn’t answer my question. Give me ONE terrorist act or evil murder that can be linked directly to the NK. All you said was that there’s potential to “lead” to danger. I mean after all, you align them to the Natzis, you use the worse of of the worse language (which im not sure is allowed Haluchadig but i dont wanna go there), clearly it cant just be a “potential”, all this Natzi talk just for a Potential??

    You raise the Flotilla incident and how the IDF is at times forced to work with their hands tied behind their back. I once heard an analogy repeated from the Satmar rabbi. A person was once hosting a guest for the night. During the night while all were asleep, the guest started a fire. When the house was ablaze, the guest shouted FIRE, FIRE thereby “saying” the entire family. In the morning, the host said to someone “If not for my guest we could have all died”, the person replied “If not for your guest you wouldn’t have had a fire”. The Zionist created a fireball about 100 years ago, it was against the Torah and against logic (for the safety of Jews abroad), now we are all eating the fruits, now were busy putting out the fire they started and we need to thank them for “saving” us.

    You equate the NK to the Natzis. I must say, you either a)dont know enough about the holocaust (which btw has the Zionist signature in many areas) or b)had your logic shut down by the force of hate. The amount of hate against NK is stunning all while its still factually true that the danger the Zionist has put all Klal Yisroal is REAL and a gazillion times worse than NK, especially when the NK danger is still in the Potential phase, plain stunning!

    You wrote:

    “Honest. No, there would not be the same outporing of hate against the zionists for shmading us. The same way we usually get more worked up about the holocaust than about the chanuka story which was just shmading us. We really should care about shmading more, but we are human”

    Being human at its default settings means being flawed. Raise a child in a jungle and he/she will grow up an animal. Ones primary objective on earth is to learn and adopt on how to overcome the natural human flaws, and yes its a constant battle. Being human means gravitating to this Olam Hashaker (world of lies), which this world is (according to chazal and all Safurim). This world is a world of lies not only in relevance to the Olam Haemes (world of truth), but just on its own, its a fake and flawed world in which we need to adjust and fight to become better/true/pure. No one has to work to pull towards all the flawed things this world has to offer, its natural, its called “Being Human”. Any unbiased logical person who would read all the responses and hate against NK and then analyze it logically, would immediately see that it isn’t about our safety but rather purely agenda driven. The very fact that you and the others have this abnormal/outrageous driving force of hate tells a compelling story to the real reason behind this hate.

    The true reason for this hate is conceptually the same as a polygraph (lie detector). The truth hurts! There’s an enormousness emotional and physical response when the truth is told. As I explained above, the NK hate does clearly not add up logically with the facts, which brings me back to my very first post “There’s a painful truth behind NK’s insane actions”


    I read your response. It was very long.

    I see you saying two things.

    A. The zionists are the cause of all arab attacks. I will concede this for purposes of this discussion, since it is irrelevant.

    B. You want me to bring clear proof of a person who was killed, where the NK were a “but for” cause of the attack.

    I cannot bring such a case, since it doesn’t exist. Every attack has multiple causes.

    But, that doesn’t mean their actions don’t contribute.

    You can’t show that Al Sharpton was a cause of the murder of Yankel Rosenbaum either. But his action certainly was a cause, and was almost as bad as the NK do every day (it was worse in that instance, but if you aggregate everything the NK do, they are much worse.)

    So, perhaps you think that there are no consequences to actions where we can’t see a clear unequivocal connection, and the action is a sole cause. But, that is ridiculous.

    Now, rant about the zionists again. It is irrelevant.


    “I see you saying two things.”

    No I’m not, I’m simply putting all the pieces together in order to establish a point. I am NOT ranting about the Zionist, i am NOT trying to establish that the Zionist are or aren’t the cause, I am simply creating a logical argument based on a number of valuables. You need to not get stuck on the valuables bur rather on the big picture.

    Your continues claim on irrelevancy is also irrelevant and is diverting from the real points in the argument.

    If Al Sharpton is running around shouting “Kill the Jews” (or whatever he said… something along those lines) and folks chanting “yeah kill the jews”, and shortly after a crime was committed, it is pretty obvious that its related. There are countless incidents of a crime/terror act committed in which the terrorist specifically single out Zionist (again, not ranting about the Zionist, just making a point).

    You equate NK to the Natzis, the same dangerous and evil as the Natsiz. Show me how, if you cant then your claim is false and ridicules.


    go away.


    NK arent equal to Nazis, they are equivelant to the Judenrat


    In Pre-war Europe anyone who spoke to the authorities about other jews was known as a MOSER


    In post-war America too.


    Ok? I rest my case. Shana Tova Popa, a Ksiva VeChasima Tovah!

    They aren’t Judenrat either, that stand for a sad truth in a very idiotic, bizarre, ridicules, nutty, insane,unrealistic way. Yes, someone needs to talk some sense into them, but i fail to see how they are Kapos, or responsible for our blood or endanger our lives, if im wrong, please enlighten me.

    Go read up on some of the comments and please explain to me the motivation for this hate, and by hate i mean HATE. It does not logically add up.


    You, sir, are quite pathetically mistaken.

    You have imposed a ridiculous standard, by which you measure their actions. You refuse to believe they could be doing any harm, unless there are verified specific examples of where harm would not have been done without them.

    By that standard, you could not show that smoking causes cancer.

    For some reason, you need to believe that they aren’t killing us and collaborating with the enemy.

    From the fact that your posts are mostly just long rants about the “zionists”, I’m guessing that is what is driving you to believe that anyone who opposes the “zionists” must be good.

    So, like I said before; go away. I have nothing more to say. We don’t agree on the premises, so there is no reason to discuss.


    NK are not kapos or Judenrat. That term is reserved for “people” like Noam Chomsky, Uri Avnery and Gilad Atzmon.

    They are clowns who need to find a new act in time for next Peerim.

    Chomsky does have some influence in certain circles and he is a true kapo. Same with Uri Avnery. Atzmon is an up and coming kapo who goes even further than those 2 do and is out-and-out anti-Jewish.

    The NK have no influence anywhere except over a few misfits whom they recruit for demonstrations.



    We live in a very diversified world in which there are thousands of different believes and options. Almost each and every person is convinced that whatever they formulated is right, whether its an ideology or opinion. Because of this diversity, one needs to learn to be open minded and respect other peoples thinking, let alone when the other persons arguments are not based on opinion but on logic. Telling someone “go away” simply because they don’t entertain your exact same thinking processes, is childish. I’m entitled to my thinking and you’re entitled to yours. I respect you for yours and you ought to respect me for mine. But besides, my arguments aren’t really based on an opinion (i.e. I like yellow you like blue), its based on logic. If all you see in my post is Zionist ranting then you really don’t get my points, but its ok. It was actually me who said Sunday “no one is going to convince anyone or change their thinking pattern”, I just wanted to prove to you logically that the hate for NK isn’t what claim it is, and I proved it.

    You wrote: “You refuse to believe they could be doing any harm”

    Hating a person/group of this magnetite isn’t a believe, no one hates a person based on a “believe”, it based on logical reasoning.

    You wrote: “you could not show that smoking causes cancer”

    This couldn’t be further from the truth. There are overwhelming scientific facts supporting that smoking causes cancer. It isn’t an opinion, theory or assumption (even though the scientific term theories are based of actual results), its a fact. If you had the same factual evidence for the NK hate as the science world has for smoking causing cancer, then you would have a VERY strong case.

    You wrote: “I’m guessing that is what is driving you to believe that anyone who opposes the “zionists” must be good”

    Exactly how did you establish this from my words? I never implied anything of that nature. Is it possible that its the other way around? Do you believe that anyone who opposes the Zionist must be bad and that’s your driving force?

    600 Kilo, you and I are actually agreeing in believing that the NK actions are of no significance, which begs the question, where is this NK hate coming from?

    a Ksiva V’Chasima Tovah to all! a sweet new year!


    Meeting with Ahmadinejad, Does not make you a Clown, It makes you a MOSER

    Clowns meet with other clowns, not presidents of counties that have Nuclear weapons


    Wow, that’s a pretty eloquent post. Too bad it is just more disguising instead of responding.

    I asked why you can’t believe that what they are doing is dangerous to us.

    You respond that one should not hate based on beliefs.

    Where do you dream that up? Are there now distinctions between beliefs and logic? Do you usually believe things which are not logical? Will you make this about the word I chose, which you assigned meaning to which does not even exist?

    Besides, is it proper for someone to do something which be believes, even might, lead to Jews being killed?

    The onus is on you to prove that what they are doing is not harmful and dangerous.

    And presumably you should use your own standard of evidence, where we need clear and convincing evidence showing how in every single case of violence against Jews, the NK’s actions logically could not have contributed.

    And until then, I will you hate them. ??? ?????? ? ????.

    (Also, nobody has ever shown a single case of lung cancer which definitely would not have happened but for smoking. You are exactly correct that there is scientific evidence. You are exactly incorrect, because scientific evidence is based on what makes sense. Which is exactly what I’m showing.)


    Meeting a head of state, whether nuclear (Russia, China, etc.) or not, doesn’t make one a “moser”. You need to learn the halachas before throwing terms around. Even meeting Eichmann or Hitler wouldn’t make someone a moser.


    Meeting with Ahmadinejad makes them insane. In their twisted mind they believe that if they meet this murderer it’ll be all good and eliminate the “hating Jews because of Zionist” factors. I disapproved all of NK’s action especially after they decided to sit in and listen to a holocaust denying propaganda speech, it made me sick to my stomach! They use bizarre and insane judgement. Ahmadinejad wont change his sick ideologies (in one way or another) because of these people, in short, their affect is Zero! Which means, they are non of these titles, including Moser, they are not.

    However, deep behind their ridicules actions is a sad truth.



    No i do not go around hating people based on a believe that has no facts. Religion is the only believe, anything else is based on facts or logic.

    “The onus is on you to prove that what they are doing is not harmful and dangerous.”

    Operating a significant number of years and not one single incident as a direct consequence, that’s a fact. It is also illogical for a Goy to hate us more because a few looney folks tell them they wanna be friends with them, on the contrary.

    No one said that smoking is the ONLY cause for lung cancer, but there are solid scientific evidence proving that smoking causes cancer. I dont just believe that smoking causes cancer, i know its a scientific fact killing close to a half a million people yearly.


    Shlishi: They are being Moser millions from K’lal Yisrael to someone who wants the capability to destroy us. Whether for technical reasons they may not have the Din of Mosrim, what they are doing definitely constitutes Mesirah. And if they actually give him any money they become Rodphim, plain and simple.


    No i do not go around hating people based on a believe that has no facts. Religion is the only believe, anything else is based on facts or logic.

    That is apikorsus. That Hashem exists is completely logical.

    Operating a significant number of years and not one single incident as a direct consequence, that’s a fact.

    I honestly have no idea what you are looking for. You want an arab to stab a jew at one of their protests? And if that doesn’t happen then what they are doing is fine? If logic shows that it should have an effect, it is still fine because in 20 years no arab stabbed a jew at one of their protests?

    And even if an arab did stab a jew at one of their protests, then you would be convinced? No, because maybe he would have anyway.

    I dont just believe that smoking causes cancer, i know its a scientific fact killing close to a half a million people yearly.

    It is scientific fact, because we can see that more people who smoke get cancer than people who don’t smoke. And because we can identify a link which makes sense.

    Nobody ever pointed to a cancer patient and could say definitely that smoking caused his cancer. You could not convict a man of retzicha for forcing someone to smoke for 50 years until he died of lung cancer.


    Whatever you want to call it, moser and rodef are entirely inapplicable regarding them. It is simply twisting the terms.


    Simply from the extremely patronizing tone of ill_be_strong I’m inclined to agree with popa whose responses are actually straight to the point.


    Sam, if you believe that NK talking to Ahmadinejad makes him hate us more, then you must also believe that the Zionist actions creates jewsish hatred. If you dont think that the Zionist creates Jewish hatred (i.e they all hated us in the same way even before the state) then you cant believe that NK is effective.

    “If logic shows that it should have an effect, it is still fine because in 20 years no arab stabbed a jew at one of their protests?”

    Thats exactly my point, both evidence and logic shows that it has no effect. The logical part is, why would an Arab kill a Jew because some dude said he wants to be friends with the Arabs.

    “It is scientific fact, because we can see that more people who smoke get cancer than people who don’t smoke”

    What you’re describing is a sceintific theory. A sceintific theory is something that’s based on evidence (as you described). Smoking causing cancer is a sceintific fact involving one looking at the substance inside a cigarette, understanding exactly how the lungs are working and then see exactly how the cigarette smoke interfaces with the lungs.


    Yita, how is having an open conversation patronizing? Have I offended you? and Yita, between me and you, did you just form your opinion about NK?

    Popa, I responded to your Apikorsus comment but it was removed.


    I’m signing off folks. Please forgive me if I unintentionally offended someone. Have a wonderful, meaningful Yom Tov.


    If Speaking to Ahmadinejad doesnt make you a Moser, then explain exactly C-Halacha what a Moser is……


    “If logic shows that it should have an effect, it is still fine because in 20 years no arab stabbed a jew at one of their protests?”

    Thats exactly my point, both evidence and logic shows that it has no effect. The logical part is, why would an Arab kill a Jew because some dude said he wants to be friends with the Arabs.

    You are confusing the issue. The harm is from our inability to fight back. That has a clear logical link.

    Also, you still have not responded why it is fine for them to do something which is logically dangerous, based on some internet poster (me) not being able to find a definite effect to your level of proof.

    If I am correct and they are contributing to our not being able to fight back, shouldn’t they stop?

    Shouldn’t they need to prove that is not happening, before they can continue?

    Aren’t they at least being reckless, even under your definitions? (I personally think they are being purposeful, which is more than reckless, but we can proceed that you should at least agree they are being reckless.)

    I will note that under the common law, reckless killing is manslaughter, while extreme reckless killing is murder.



    I haven’t formed any strong opinions either way, I was only noting that it seemed to me you were spending a lot of time talking about the way you believe he forms his opinions and why that way is wrong. Sounded patronizing to me. I think Popa has a pretty good head and your bashing rather then concise responses gave me the impression of someone being defensive of a pre-conceived notion without being willing to listen. That’s all, and maybe I completely missed the boat.


    I disagree because I believe the NK people are very insignificant and therefore don’t consider their actions to be logically dangers (unless there was evidence to prove otherwise). If there’s any reason for the IDF to show restrain, its because the ever increasing voices of the Arabs nations and UN pressure. 30/40 years ago when the Palestinians were still only using rocks and bottles to fight the IDF, they didn’t have to show restrain regardless of what the NK had to say. Now they have to deal with a greater and more sophisticated enemy, and worst of all, an uncivilized enemy who suicide to kill people. So a)they are much greater in power/weapons/sophistication b)Fighting Suicide isn’t a traditional war. The whole NK non-sense has NOTHING to do with the IDF challenges.

    I’m my other posts, which you were referring as Zionist ranting, I was trying to establish that the fact that the Zionist need to do all these defending, after messing up our safety, is a FAR greater concern than the very insignificance of the NK.


    Yita, I’m sure Popa is greatly intelligent and I’ve not cv in any manor, way, shape or form intended to bash/insult him personal. Forgive me if appears like i did. Every single word I’ve written was to formulate a point. I’m not sure why you (and Popa) see my response off topic, maybe because I responded to his “Go away”, am i not allowed to ask why a difference in opinion calls for a “Go away”?


    I see. So your position is that the NK aren’t concerned about the effects, because they are only a few people, and can’t have a great effect.

    That is true, they are only a few people, and they cannot have a great effect.

    Yet, I question:

    That is true of everyone who tries to cause effects, and the aggregate effect is felt. Does everyone really have a ptur that they only contributed a little bit?


    yita, why would you be less offended when popa told someone to “go away”?



    No, it was more the general trend; a vibe I got. But I hear you. And I apologize if I misjudged you.


    Let me just be clear, I’m not advocating or approve their actions, i don’t. I just don’t see a great danger in their action. The hate response doesn’t add-up with their actions/consequences.

    Yes its true. Will UPS or Fedex feel threatened if I start delivering packages from Brooklyn to Lakewood in my car?


    Let me just be clear, I’m not advocating or approve their actions, i don’t. I just don’t see a great danger in their action. The hate response doesn’t add-up with their actions/consequences.

    That is good. I actually thought you were one of them.

    The hate does not stem from the consequences. It stems from the callousness to our suffering, and the intention to harm us.

    Now, you say they actually don’t intend to harm us, and are only pretending to, and justify that their actions are of small effect anyway.

    Perhaps that is true, and perhaps not. But it sure seems like they’re trying to harm us, and you can’t fault me for thinking so. It is what they profess after all. (They certainly profess that they are trying to influence Israeli government action, which will harm us, as I explained. That is what I am referring to.)

    And they certainly are callous to our suffering. We are being slaughtered in the streets, while they meet with and praise the enemy.

    Maybe you think it is all a game they are playing, but it is well played, and I think they are for real.

    So I hate them.

    Is that unjustified?


    The NK hate is coming from the less observant and more Zionist segment of the frum world playing RIGHT INTO THESE SCHMOHAWKS’ HANDS!

    They WANT to be hated! They WANT negative attention! On the other hand, if you IGNORE them, they’ll go away. IF you can do something real, like put them in cherem as was done in Vienna, some of them may leave the fold. But to rant about them online or even in person, except by laughing at them (as the Indian man basically did and as I would do with a camera in the background if I ever came upon them) is just what they want.

    Even Mad Mahmoud knows they are a joke. That is why he only had 2 of them over this time around.

    You have to be doing something that really endangers Jews to be a moiser and a kapo. Those titles pertain to the left in EY and perhaps to Froman who does live in EY and is basically putting the city which he serves as rav in danger by his antics. The Sikriki and the other ShaBaK employees who claim to be NK in RBS are in some very low category, albeit perhaps not moiser but possibly roidef, because they are physically hurting Yidden.

    However, the karta klowns of Monsey, Willy, London and even Hirsch in EY are just that – the Klueless Klutz Karta.


    If Speaking to Ahmadinejad doesnt make you a Moser, then explain exactly C-Halacha what a Moser is……


    Look up Solomon Dwek. That is a moiser al pi halacha. Also look up the PETA activists Philip and Hannah Schein. They are moisrim. If you want another one, try Robert A. Kasirer. A moiser is an informer, in other words, someone who turns Jews in to the civil authorities or who “exposes crimes” by publicly condemning Jewish practices and their practitioners. All of them should have a misse meshune, as we request in birkas haminim.

    There is a very slight case for calling NK who went to Iran roidfim, but their actions really don’t endanger a single Jew. They are just minor irritants, so far off the wall that no one can take them seriously anymore.


    Kilo Bear is correct. They really don’t make any impact, and are not worth discussing. I’m not sure why I started with this on the other thread.


    If they don’t make an impact, why do a lotta folks here get all riled up and unwound whenever they hit the news? And why does this site have a dime a dozen stories about their activites every Monday and Thursday?


    The ones who get riled up are the less observant and more tzioini contingent, and they use these NK as a way of showing what happens when you do not accept Rav Kook’s shitta and all kinds of heterim and kulois that go along with it.

    They try to lump every non-Zionist charedi ben Torah in with this nonsense, even though they must know by now that the Klueless Klutz Kartel is in de facto cherem across the board (meaning that they are too ridiculous to bother putting in cherem).

    I would not even call the KKKarta the Westboro of Judaism. They are more like the wise menof Chelm at this point.


    600, I agree that they aren’t recognized, but I strongly disagree about their intend. Some I already explain.

    Popa, I still want to respond to your late erev YT post and I’ll do so when I have a few extra minutes. I want to make sure that I put things in proper prospective.


    they are really bad people. anyone who distorts judaism from the torah-true (read:only) version is a bad person. but i dont see them as being worse then other segments of “judaism”. crazier? certainly. more threatening to the very fabric of yiddishkeit? nope.


    I know what THEY claim their intent is. I also know that THEY suffer from delusions of grandeur that go back to their failure to attract any attention as far back as cheder.

    They are clowns and fools looking for attention. Rebbetzin Bloy AH was in contact with Khomeini YMS quietly and no one even knew this until after she passed away. She may or may not have accomplished anything but she also did not do any harm or make Jews look foolish.

    The Klueless Klutz Kartel fools allow Ahmadinejad to use them on television that is also watched by 25,000 Jews in Iran.

    Satmar and other sane, normal anti-Zionists are the ones who suffer the most from these clowns. Satmar is able to do avoidas hakoidesh in Yemen because they do things the right way. The Klueless Karta Klowns are a collection of oisvorfen, meshuggeners and senile old men who don’t believe one word that they say and they make everyone else look bad.


    This (third-hand) story sums up who the Klueless Klutz Klowns are:

    Someone saw a friend invite Chaim Fryman, a YU graduate who is one of the more pathetic NK characters, over for Shabbos.

    He asked his friend – don’t you know that Chaim Fryman is in cherem?

    Response: “Chaim Fryman isn’t important enough to be put in cherem!”

    These guys aren’t important enough to be called roidfim or moisrim. I actually communicate with a few of them in London, EY and NY (none of whom are important enough to have been put in any sort of cherem although one constantly appears wearing a kaffiyeh at demonstrations in London). The trash they send me is beyond ludicrous.

    Of course, they don’t know that the only reason I want to hear from them is so that I have new material for Creedmoor.


    i dont know why there is so much hate about them.but i know that in the time of the Churban,One Jew and his followers also went to the enemy General,and he was hated for it just the same.His name was R’yochanan ben Zakai….Check the gemara in Gittin 57 which brings this Maase.What is the difference between Nk and Him ,He was also nearly killed for going to speak to the enemy…

    the NK are right for going and who knows how many jews are still alive because of them..

    Btw Ahmadunejad never said he hates jews his rants have only been about zionists….

    the biggest jewish community in arab lands today is in IRAN!!!!Thanks to israel which got them kicked out of all others..

    look up “genocide in the holy land”,but more important,”Holocaust victims accuse” by rabbi moshe shonfeld..


    YMB: I’ll give you another person who went to the Romans: Bar Kamtza. There is a right way and a wrong way and a right time and wrong time to meet and negotiate with our enemies. Most people seem to think that what the NK are doing (actively supporting someone who wants to kill lots of Jews) falls under the “wrong way” category.


    BK massered to the Romans. What does nk do that is more like BK than like RYBZ?


    Giving money and showing political support that hurts Israel (and by extension Jews) in the political forum. Also, why go to Israel’s enemies when they have more powerful allies who will support us.

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