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  • #602368
    far east
    Member

    Whats the story with facebook im thinking of making an account? I mean i know its not assur even though ive heard people say so. Even though there is potential to do things you should’nt, having a facebook account doesnt mean your doing something wrong. Im just wondering what everyones opinion on it is?

    #859313
    zahavasdad
    Participant
    #859314
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    If you’re not sure and you don’t trust your own judgement, then ask your spiritual adviser. Please don’t decide what to do on the basis of a majority vote of (largely) anonymous Internet posters.

    The Wolf

    #859315

    I’ll sit back and watch the fire works!

    #859316
    yungerman1
    Participant

    You’ve pretty much answered your own question.

    Its a way to keep in touch with friends you wouldnt normally keep in touch with.

    BUT its also an easy way to meet people of the opposite gender, and see inappropriate content.

    Facebook has led to many divorces- in the frum community as well. (I heard this first hand from a marriage counselor)

    #859317
    MorahRach
    Member

    I personally use it to keep in touch with friends, mostly from high school who i other wise wouldn’t be keeping up with. ( Because of distance, and we all have families and get busy).It is also a really great way to share pictures with family. Yes of course it can be used for bad things, but so can most things. I am not friends on facebook with anyone that i think is going to post things that i do not want to be seeing. On the rare occasion, i have just ” unfriended” someone. I think it is a personal choice, everyone in the CR is going to give you a different opinion. I enjoy facebook, its fun to see whats going on in my friends lives and update them on mine.

    #859318
    OneOfMany
    Participant

    There’s nothing wrong with it. You can get into a lot of very wrong things with it. You just have to be very sure that you won’t. It’s definitely a good thing to discourage in general, because it is a very slippery slope. But if you are very aware of the dangers and control your use accordingly, then nobody can say you’re really doing anything wrong.

    (Sorry if I mislead you as to my sentiments on this on the other thread. 🙂 )

    #859319
    Logician
    Participant

    The basic requirement of Yiras Shamayim is to avoid situations where there are pitfalls. Obviously, if it is necessary to be in that situation, the rulebook changes, and you then learn how to navigate with care. If you only care about the black and white issurim of the Torah, however, the Ramban calls you a “naval”.

    Being that everyone here seems to agree that there are dangers, and it doesn’t sound like there is any particular situation which requires it….

    #859320
    far east
    Member

    Thanks everyone! I trust my own judgement and i feel like many of the things id be doing on facebook that are “wrong” i already do so i doubt this will change anything about me. I kinda wanna just get a feel about how everyone feels about it because ive heard some pretty bad things which i cant imagine are true. It seems like there’s nothing dangerous on it compared to the rest of the garbage on the internet

    #859321
    Logician
    Participant

    Perhaps my above definition should now be restated as: The basic requirement of Yiras Shamayim is not to needlessly trust your own judgement in a risky situation.

    #859322
    soliek
    Member

    yungerman1: are you married?

    #859323
    far east
    Member

    @Logican

    I understand what you are saying about avoiding situations where you might fall, however every single situation is one where you can fall in. By you going online and blogging on YWN, that itself is putting yourself in a dangerous situation. Part of being an Eved Hashem is trsuting your own judgement that you will make the right decision. If you dont trust yourself your just increasing the likeliness that you will fall.

    Now im obviously not saying you should put yourself in a situation where you will do the wrong thing, im just saying each person has to trust his own intuition and judgement to be able to evaluate each particular situation. and i obviously feel facebook is on my level….

    #859324

    Facebook is also used as a marketing tool by many large companies. It’s away to keep business in touch with their consumers. My company uses it as a marketing tool and we have had some measure of success…

    Yeshiva world news also has a facebook page (in case you didn’t notice the F in a blue box icon on the top of this page”

    Like everything else it can be used for good and bad, you decide

    #859325
    Logician
    Participant

    I’m not sure why not trusting yourself would cause you to fall more. Chazal took what are considered by many to be pretty extreme measures to help us avoid problematic situations. I have heard people actually ask this about many gezeiros Chazal: Why can’t they trust us more.

    If you feel that FB is the type of situation you currently are in, fine. But I didn’t think it was so obvious – as you felt the need to start this thread…

    #859326
    Sam2
    Participant

    Logician: And some people think that Chazal trusted us too much. Everyone has their own perspective. We don’t do what Chazal Assered. Everything else is left up to us. If we think we’ll fall, then we should avoid it at all costs. If we’re honest with ourselves and know that we’ll be okay, then it’s fine.

    #859327
    far east
    Member

    Not trusting yourself generally comes from (not always) lack of confidence. If your not confident when doing something you will be less likely to succeed.

    Example: in sports confident teams win.

    also i made this thread to hear other peoples opinions on facebook as i feel its an interesting topic 🙂

    #859328
    OneOfMany
    Participant

    i feel like many of the things id be doing on facebook that are “wrong” i already do

    not saying you should put yourself in a situation where you will do the wrong thing

    No no no no no. It doesn’t make a difference where your level is or where you think your level is; joining Facebook for the wrong reasons is still wrong. Being on that level doesn’t somehow neutralize the wrongness of it. So you feel justified in dragging yourself deeper? That’s not good judgment. Being where you are is not a justification for doing more wrong things.

    because ive heard some pretty bad things which i cant imagine are true

    No, they probably were. The point is that they won’t necessarily be true in every case – but that the tendency toward such things might be too strong to bank on that probability alone.

    #859329
    far east
    Member

    @one of many

    im sorry i think i could have worded that better. I put the word “wrong” in parentheses to imply that many people believe what im doing is wrong even though i disagree (i cant give details here for obvious reason).

    I just meant that i feel that creating a facebook wouldnt make any significant changes on my lifestyle.

    I dont believe a person should continue to do something that is truly wrong.

    #859330
    Logician
    Participant

    Sam2- that’s the point, isn’t it ? IF YOU”RE HONEST WITH YOURSELF. As we generally are not – if you disagree, I have to assume you have no sifrei mussar at home, nor have ever learnt any – we have a problem.

    Welcome to planet earth after cheit Adam harishon, buddy – there’s a reason the eitz hada’as is called “Ilana d’Sfeika”, The Tree (of) [that creates] doubt, by Chazal.

    #859332
    Logician
    Participant

    Now this could be an interesting conversation (unless its an old one- i didn’t search).

    How is YWN CR a dangerous situation ?

    #859333
    uneeq
    Member

    Logician: How is YWN CR a dangerous situation ?

    I think he meant going on the internet in general. That is, while logged into the CR, you must guard yourself from the rest of the internet. So too, he is implying, that facebook has its good parts, and it has bad parts and one is likely in a comparable situation.

    #859334
    OneOfMany
    Participant

    far east: I have no idea what you are doing and I’m not going to judge. But you might not be giving yourself an accurate judgement either. You should talk to a mentor about it.

    Logician: That conversation is probably older than the CR itself.

    #859335
    far east
    Member

    It can very easily lead to loshon horah and anger. And thats besides the fact that being on the internet is always dangerous.

    but im not one to talk being im on YWN right now 🙂

    #859336
    RABBAIM
    Participant

    ?? ????? ????? ?? ??? ????

    #859337
    smartgal
    Member

    As someone who had facebook for awhile & deactivated my account, here are the reasons why:

    1) to avoid nisayaon/temptation of accepting opposite gender “friend” requests.

    2) a friend of mines account was hacked and posted things by hacker that she never would have posted.

    3) to avoid seeing photos and language that are not with my hashkafa

    4) ayin hara -its easy to get caught up with the whole fad of posting pics of your latest vacation or family pics and it really goes against the jewish concept of not flaunting everything you do…

    #859338
    Logician
    Participant

    Believe me, I agree with all those reasons, plus many more. I wanted to hear what CR posters think of their own situation.

    #859339
    cinderella
    Member

    I posted this a few months back on a different thread regarding Facebook (http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/facebook-and-shidduchim). I took the liberty of editing myself a bit.

    IMHO, there is nothing wrong with Facebook. You can argue that people can end up doing stupid things and getting involved with people they shouldn’t be getting involved with, but you can say that about everything.

    If someone wants to do the wrong thing, they will do it, regardless of whether they have Facebook or not. A responsible, smart person would not do stupid things. A responsible, smart person would not accept a friend request from a stranger or some guy. If they are stupid enough to do that, they deserve whatever happens to them and the reputation they will get. (Sorry,it really bothers me when people do stupid things so I tend to get worked up about it)

    Just be smart and do the right thing and you will be fine. And if you can’t trust yourself then you have bigger problems than Facebook.

    Just to add- I understand what Logician is saying about not putting yourself in a compromising situation. Walking out of your house can be a risky thing. Having a cell phone can be too. But you have to be able to set your own boundaries and know whether or not you are able to trust yourself in the possibly compromising situations Facebook might pose.

    #859340
    Logician
    Participant

    There is a very clear difference. Perhaps you should have a plan how to do deal with walking out of your house ! But even if you don’t, you must walk out. So you deal with it as well as you can. You do not (and if you do, this discussion is not about you) need to be on FB.

    Here’s a question. I have yet to meet someone who says “I am too stupid to deal with [FB]” (for illustrative purposes only). So everyone – those who ultimately are able to deal, and those who don’t – think they can. So how do you know which of those you are ?

    Yes, I understand that we need to make decisions in life, and you just have to make the call sometimes. Let’s just not be so confident in ourselves. Yes “far east” – confidence could pump you up and help your bottom line. But with as its usually based on fluff, its quite a risky strategy with regards to milchemes hayetzer.

    #859341
    cinderella
    Member

    “There is a very clear difference. Perhaps you should have a plan how to do deal with walking out of your house ! But even if you don’t, you must walk out. So you deal with it as well as you can.”

    Please don’t take me so literally. I am just trying to explain how anything can pose a threat to someones Yiddishkeit. If someone wants to do something wrong, they will whether they have Facebook or not. And this is where my next point comes in.

    “Here’s a question. I have yet to meet someone who says “I am too stupid to deal with [FB]” (for illustrative purposes only). So everyone – those who ultimately are able to deal, and those who don’t – think they can. So how do you know which of those you are ?”

    When I was in high school, I asked my parents to remove texting capabilities from my phone simply because I did not trust myself. I knew that I was very capable of doing foolish things and I was able to make gedarim for myself. Yes, I do think that everybody knows deep down if the things they do are good for them or not. You just have to be strong enough to make the right choices.

    #859342
    Logician
    Participant

    I know you didn’t maen it literally. But the point is important – trust yourself when you need to, why do so when you don’t have to.

    I think we’ve reached the point when we’ve clarified our opinions, no point in continuing. Many people here feel they are able to judge situations, and their capabilities, without prejudice. The entire self-improvement in Torah, as seen (for example) in all sifrei mussar, is based on the assumption that we have extreme difficulties doing so. So…

    #859343
    far east
    Member

    of course you have to be careful but you know yourself better than anyone. I obviously am prejudiced when judging myself but every single life decision a person makes is biased. Yes ive made many mistakes in my life, but at the end of the day i have barely any regrets. Im happy where i am today and the mistakes ive made in the past helped me to where i am today, for better or worse.

    Yes i understand what your saying about not trusting ones judgement, and if that works for you then you should obviously continue to do it, however i have to trust myself and my judgement to live MY life to the fullest. Even though i will make mistakes , im still gonna trust myself and fight on im not a big believer in hiding behind a wall. Theres a world out there and i believe Hashem wants us to see it and be able to face the challenges.

    Sorry if i was ranting i got a little carried away

    #859344
    Think first
    Member

    I feel that you will slip into things you wouldn’t normaly do in “real life” and the repetition of it will make it part of urself and eventually you will do it in real life.

    If you can avoid facebook, do so. You will save urself from a lot of trouble. I guarantee it.

    You know just like one will text something they wouldn’t say out of their mouth, one will befriend one whon they woulndt in real life. Once ur friends on facebook you may become friends in real life too.

    My verdict: the Cons of fb far outweigh the pros.

    Hatzlacha.

    #859345

    It’s useful to keep in touch with distant acquaintances, mostly. Close friends I speak with in ‘real life’, phone, IM, mail. Facebook is for those with whom you want to stay in touch but don’t really have any reason to stay in touch closely (examples: former coworkers, former classmates). It’s awesome for keeping in touch with people with whom you would otherwise lose contact. But it should NOT replace normal contact with close friends.

    #859346
    tomim tihye
    Member

    Can someone help me out? I never understood this idea of trusting yourself. If you trust yourself to always act properly, how did you ever end up doing something wrong?

    #859347
    yitayningwut
    Participant

    Here’s a rule of thumb: Unless you know that you can’t trust yourself, there’s nothing wrong with being normal. Life isn’t always about running for the hills.

    #859348
    Logician
    Participant

    “but you know yourself better than anyone”

    Ain adam ro’eh nigei atzmo.

    I do understand you, I in no way advocate hiding etc. We face our lives bravely, using our judgements, doing our best. But that’s OUR LIVES – we don’t look for nisyonos, to bring difficulties into our lives to face and overcome. And so why enter a potentially dangerous situation.

    #859349

    smartgal:

    Pretty much exactly the reason I deactivated as well. The amount of drama it was causing in my life was unhealthy. I found myself constantly refreshing my page and unfocused in my schoolwork. It’s completely addictive.

    I deactivated 4 months ago & have never looked back since.

    #859350
    smartgal
    Member

    No one mourns the wicked:

    yes it really was too much drama and insanely addictive since I had a fb icon on my cell I would constantly be checking for “updates” all day @ work, at red lights etc…It feels good that I was strong enough to cancel-just proves when you do the right thing you feel great about it!!! also after cancelling-I dont think its a coincidence but I definitely noticed a lot of personal good things happening to me & my family!!! 🙂 so if anyones thinking about signing up-trust me been there done that and it ain’t worth the risks!

    #859351
    Stock Trader
    Participant

    smartgal & No one mourns the wicked you are both AWESOME!! Yesssss you have defined for me why I always feel guilty after going on FB, besides for always feeling like I just wasted so much time. OK thats it I will try now never again 🙂 For those of you who arent FB users, KEEP YOURSELF CLEAR OF IT!!

    #859352

    Stock Trader:

    Well thanks for that Ego boost 🙂

    I have some friends who have a fb and rarely use it, others (like myself) became addicted very quickly. As smartgal pointed out, the app on my phone allowed me to access it 24/7.

    #859353
    lebidik yankel
    Participant

    FaceBook is a big timewaster. One real consideration is to know if you need it or not. If its just for fun, there’s so many better ways to kill time. If you need it, you need it.

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