Family seperation at the border

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  • #1805433

    LOTR92
    Participant

    If a American citizen is arrested for a DUI, and he has his son in the car the police will separate them because the father is a danger o the child, by doing a crime. AOC and the squad don’t understand hat crossing the border illegally is illegal. As such shouldn’t ILLEGAL immigrants be treaded at least the same way U.S. citizens are and be separated from their law breaking parents? I don’t understand the opposing argument, but as far as I know this is the republican view.

    #1805474

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    If they are illegal, isn’t the whole fam8ly illegal? Keep them together.

    #1805508

    Joseph
    Participant

    Reb Eliezer: No, if the children were born in the US to illegal aliens, the children are still US citizens (unfortunately.)

    Nevertheless, even if the entire family are illegals, then they all should be arrested and jailed together until deportation.

    #1805522

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Joseph, that is the point of not separating them.

    #1805534

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Anyway, there is no reason to jail them. I am a refugee from Hungary being here sixty years. We were kept in a DP canp in Austria for 2 1/2 years until we came here.

    #1805535

    Joseph
    Participant

    Reb Eliezer, if the authorities could jail the entire family of illegals together Republicans the the right would be all for it. But the Democrats and the left got the liberal judges in the courts to rule that illegal alien children can’t be held in detention. That’s why there is family separation.

    #1805541

    Quayboardwarrior
    Participant

    I hardly understand the comparison to drink driving. Breaking the law doesn’t by default make one a danger to their children.

    Nor should punishment for breaking any law be to separate a family. Children shouldn’t suffer unnecessarily at the hands of the law, regardless of the choices their parents make.

    If actually convicted in court for illegal immigration and are to be sent to jail, than there is no choice but to separate the child from the parent, but until that point, they aren’t guilty and neither they, nor their children should suffer

    #1805542

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Rarely do I agree so much with Reb Eliezer. Most of us can make a distinction between jailing criminals and separating them from their families for robbery, DWI, assault or serious white collar crimes versus separating children from their parent who cross the border seeking amnesty. Reb Yosef obviously believes the Administration position that a “crime” is a “crime”.

    #1805552

    akuperma
    Participant

    The families always have the option of staying together in their homeland, but are choosing to separate in order to enter the US. Often the adults have engaged in criminal activities. One should note that most of the people involved are coming from democratic countries where their chief complain is about corruption and incompetent law enforcement, not persecution or even horrible living conditions. They should elect honest and competent governments.

    #1805573

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Joseph, did you read my previous post?

    #1805660

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    For more information see: https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/tearing-families-apart

    #1805687

    Luna Lovegood
    Participant

    Part of the issue, (PART- not the entire issue), is that once these kids are separated some of them get lost in the system. many are too young give social workers any identifying details (name, age, parent’s names) and when the time comes for the parent and child to be reunited, be it in the US or back in their home country, we have no idea which kid belongs to which parent.
    Sometimes, officials don’t even know where the kid is. Some are sent detention facilities, others are sent to sponsor homes to be cared for and become unreachable.
    Imagine being told that a government official lost your kid. Even if you’ve committed a crime, once you’ve “paid you dues” you deserve to get custody of you child again (provided there was no abuse). But we can’t give these children back to their parents because we have no way of “matching” them up. That’s part of what makes this so cruel.

    #1805700

    chash
    Participant

    Unfortunately, There is ALWAYS a fallout on innocent people when a criminal gets penalized. A bank robber who was a staunch family man. A father who beat the parent of his sons bully. A person who has an alchohol problem but is the kindest and most endearing husband. A hedge fund manager who, under pressure, becomes a ponzi schemer. All people who broke laws and their punishment adversley affects those who love them.
    In fact, if we looked at the broader picture of the effect of incarceration on that persons inner circle, we would never condemn anyone to prison, after all What wrong did the 5 yr old child of a mugger do to warrant not seeing his daddy for the rest of his childhood?! (this is in fact one of the points made that HKB”H is the dayan tzedek as apposed to basar v’dom)
    Yet for society to flourish we at times have to look away from the mans inner circle and punish the criminal for his crimes. That is the only way to function, everyone understands that. And so, the children being separated? that is something that the criminal, in our case the illegal infiltrator, will have on their conscious for the rest of their life. But law is law.

    #1805701

    Joseph
    Participant

    Deport the whole family together and you’ll avoid family separation.

    #1805706

    chiefshmerel
    Participant

    Joseph, are you advocating deporting natural born American citizens?

    #1805717

    Joseph
    Participant

    Make up your mind — do you want to deport illegal aliens together with their families in order to avoid family separation? Or do you want to deport illegal aliens without their US citizen children, thereby causing family separation? Those are the choices. Either way the illegal aliens must be deported. The illegal aliens should be given a choice whether they want to be detained and deported together with their family or separate.

    #1805780

    interjection
    Participant

    Many of the children snuck in are child traffic victims.

    Sneaking into the US is extremely dangerous. They travel by foot for many days, sometimes even weeks, and pass through areas with dangerous terrain and a strong likelihood of being attacked by animals and criminals. Assuming these are the true parents, it is probably a huge relief to have temporary housing for 20 days, including beds, bathrooms, free food, and basic medical care. When it seems that the parents are absolutely incapable of caring for their children, the government places those children in foster care where they will be taken care of.

    I’ve heard many in the media and politicians complain about how the process is done. I haven’t heard many of these immigrants claiming that they were abused. I did hear a mother cry about them taking away her still nursing baby but if she thought that crossing the Rio Grande with a nursing baby was a good idea, then probably her sense of judgment is a bit off.

    #1805838

    anonymous Jew
    Participant

    Recently the UN came out with a negative report on child separation at the border and Reuters, among others, ran with it, attacking Trump. Then it developed that the UN report was based on 2015 data, when Obama was president. The news report disappeared.
    The left refuses to recognize that crossing the border illegally is a crime , and that it was Obama who set up the separation practice. Keep in mind that it was the Democrats in January 2019 who refused to appropriate funds to set up family facilities, alleging the border crisis to be a fantasy

    #1805859

    chiefshmerel
    Participant

    I’m no fan of Obama. I don’t think he was such a good President, not that he didn’t do anything good.

    I’m sick of this whataboutism. If Trump does something wrong, but Obama also did it, does that make it right?

    #1806559

    Quayboardwarrior
    Participant

    @anonymous Jew
    You’ve mis-represented the facts.

    The Democrats delayed voting on the $4.5 Billion of aid until the bill included several strict rules setting out that the funds can be used for humanitarian aid only, and “not for immigration raids, not detention beds, not a border wall”, (House appropriations committee chair Nita Lowey)

    #1806630

    anonymous Jew
    Participant

    Quay, you’ve also misrepresented the facts. The Democrats turned the aid bill into a political bill. The humanitarian aid was to expand the number of , among other things, detention beds given the huge numbers attempting to enter illegally. The Democrats, who are for open borders, tied the aid to issues that they had to know the Republicans wouldn’t accept ( the wall , ICE ) , thus holding the illegal immigrants hostage

    #1806669

    Quayboardwarrior
    Participant

    @anonymous Jew
    How is ensuring the aid money is spent on aid, not Trumps vanity project (The Wall) politicizing the bill?

    And the Democrats were right to insist on those measures. Considering a month after the bill was passed ⁠Trump diverted $3.6 Billion of military housing funds to pay for border wall. That is 127 projects the president canceled would have improved the quality of life at work or home for military service members and their families.

    #1806696

    anonymous Jew
    Participant

    Quay, one last item . Requests for aid were made as far back as Jan 2019, but no bill was introduced. Why? Because Speaker Pelosi and Majority leader Hoyer claimed that there was no need for a bill, that there was no crisis. It’s all on You Tube.

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