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So I have a rant.
My granddaughter is getting married next week, and my son (the kallah’s father) was planning to travel to Belize City for the Aufruf (the chosson’s father is the shaliach of Belize).
I told my son he should stay home. I think fathers of brides should not go to the Aufruf and should instead stay home.
I mean, it is your daughter’s last shabbos home before she gets married–shouldn’t you stay there with her and spend it with her? Don’t you want to spend that last shabbos with her?
I don’t get it too well. I think this minhag of fathers in law going to the Aufruf should be absolutely abolished.
I don’t get it too well. I think this minhag of fathers in law going to the Aufruf should be absolutely abolished.
FWIW, I think so too.
I happen to agree as well.
In any case, mazal tov! (And by the way, I didn’t realize you were old enough to have a granddaughter getting married!)
In Skver, the minhag is that the chosson’s father does NOT attend the aufruf at all. If he happens to daven at the same shul, he may be there. If he does not but lives in the proximity, he may attend the Kiddush. But is he lives elsewhere, the minhag is that he does not attend at all.
If one reviews the practicality of it, it is rather challenging to get up and travel a distance while leaving the kallah at home, presumably alone, for her Shabbos kallah.
I doubt there is such a minhag. If the bride and groom are both in the same shul or even the same city (which until recently, meant the same thing – multiple shuls in a city is a modern innovation), of course he would be there. Where else would he go? Any such minhag is therefore a recent innovation.
If the wedding is in a distant city, the bride’s family won’t be there on the Shabbos before. That a matter of practicality, not a minhag.
If he stays home he is just going to be in the way and uncomfortable , what is he gonna do during the shabbos kallah? a lone man amongst a gaggle of women id rather be 1000 miles away.
Hes not going for the aufruf, hes going to Belize. If the kallah lived in Belize and the chosson lived in NY Im sure hed listen to you and stay home. Ask him to bring you back some caulk from cay caulker.
Is there even such a (possibly unmentionable, pardon me) concept as-
Mother-in-law at Aufruf
???
I have another question for you Popa:
What is the point of the aufruf? To me it seems like a huge waste of time, effort, stress, and money.
“What is the point of the aufruf? To me it seems like a huge waste of time, effort, stress, and money.”
I’d like to suggest that because it IS all of those things, the aufruf was invented by the kallahs family as a small measure of revenge for all the effort, sterss, time and money demanded by the boys side of the girls family.
At my cousin’s recent aufruf, the kallah’s entire family was there besides for the kallah herself.
I can’t imagine what she was doing home by herself- reading Mishpacha? Never asked.
Either way, mazal tov! Remember, all he’s missing is the possibility of being clocked on the head with a bag of stale za-zas.
FWIW, my in-laws were present at my aufruf.
The Wolf
In Skver they have a saying, “if the father in law goes to the kiddush, they make havdala with him”.
“If one reviews the practicality of it, it is rather challenging to get up and travel a distance while leaving the kallah at home, presumably alone, for her Shabbos kallah.”
Because she is not with her father she is alone? Boy, if that were true I would have been pretty lonely between the ages of 12 and 23.
Acuperma, Clearly large cities like Minsk or Vilna had many shuls. I don’t know about other shtetlach but the town my father came from, which had perhaps 500 Jewish families (which constituted the entire population of the town), had three shuls and a couple of shtieblach. It’s an old joke but it’s true. Every Jew has to have a shul that he won’t set foot in.
I think the FIL should not go, but for a different reason. Let the Chosson have one last shot at singlehood with all his friends there. Why should he have to deal with the extra stress of having his in-laws there. He then has to worry what his friends will say or do. Depending on the type of family he is marrying into he will also have more stress over preparing a vort, etc.
I find Popa’s story hard to Belize.
Snort
I disagree with popa on two fronts. First of all, an aufruf is a simcha (and no, Shabbos kallah doesn’t compare), and I think it is proper for someone to attend and participate in his son’s simcha (I hope popa’s son treats his son-in-law as his own child).
Also, I don’t think popa should be telling his son what to do. If he is old enough to choose a husband for his daughter, he is old enough to make his own decision to go to the aufruf.
Memo to bumper of random thread. I think it’s to late the wedding was 7 months ago 🙂
Okay, but do you agree or disagree with my points? It’s not as if there won’t be any more aufrufs.
Point 1) yes.
Point 2) he is older than I am , cant really tell HIM what to do
Popa, mazel tov on your unrelated simcha. Whether or not the story is true, I DO think the chosson’s father should be there. In the kallah’s house, the Shabbos before the wedding is all about Shabbos Kallah. There is absolutely no reason why a father should be home to spend Shabbos with a gazillion of his daughter’s friends in the house with her. But it certainly shows that he attaches chashivus to his future aidem’s simcha by being present, if possible, at the auf ruf. I wouldn’t travel out of the country for it, though, if I were the girl’s dad.
To be,
Yes, I actually realized the irony of telling an anonymous person not to tell his own son what to do, but hey, this is the coffee room, we’re here to express opinions.
In Skver, I thought there only is one shul. If you daven somewhere else (an old age home, maybe?) you may be putting yourself at risk!
Oh I thought were here to solve world peace. Or to debate great esoteric concepts such as if one’s pet dog has a pet rock can he come to his fathers aufruf 🙂
I know of an adam chashuv who had two of his daughters marry brothers. He did not attend the first aufruf, saying “It is yenem’s simcha, has nothing to do with me!” However, when the second one rolled around he did attend. When asked about the inconsistency he replied, “My mechuten is making a simcha, I shouldn’t go?”
Generally, if it’s a short distance the kallah’s father will go. My nephew wasn’t going to travel to Israel three days before his daughters wedding so he stayed home. My son on the other hand didn’t have a choice as the ofruf was on his block, so he went.
Midwesterner, great story. It reminds me of the person who got divorced and them remarried his gerushah.
When asked why he though it was better the second time, he said, “She’s not bad for a zivug sheini”!
If attending means getting shishi and the aufruf kiddush includes p’tcha, a herring bar and top drawer bourbon, my minhag is to attend and make l’chaims with all the future relatives and friends. If the kiddush is the just cake and soda type, my minhag is to pass.
Cherrybim, you’d have to compare the cost of the airline ticket to p’tcha, herring, and bourbon.
Shlishi? Priceless.
funny
I cant find any reference to frum jews in belize
great fishing & snorkeling (been there)
no frum jews
no sheliach
bogus story
Well, the story might not be 100% true.
Please don’t be a golem: Let me save you some time on future research. When Popa starts a thread with a story, assume it didn’t happen. Especially when he acknowledges it to be made up in his very next comment!
How’s the weather in Alaska? As bad as Lakewood?
It was a year ago that I said you were wrong. It took me a year to formulate the precisely correct response.
1. Nor was I, but anyhow it’s not her last Shabbos home, it’s her last Shabbos in her parents’ home as a single. It’s no big deal if the last Shabbos as a single with her father there is a week earlier.
2. No, you’re not my mother, you’re my father-in-law (I don’t think anyone fell for the grandfather bit) and I still don’t forgive you for not being at my aufruf.
I’ll probably bump this thread every year until you apologize.
And Estie says she doesn’t know why you keep saying how important it was to be there for that last Shabbos. All you did was get drunk and embarrass yourself and her in front of her friends, and she wishes you’d have gone away.
How did this go unnoticed for 2 years?
from The Little I Know: “In Skver, the minhag is that the “chosson’s” father does NOT attend the aufruf at all.”
I highly doubt that’s true! Why would the chosson’s father not attend?
If there was an aufruf this week, it would be tough for the future shver to come.
The little I know: “In Skver, the minhag is that the chosson’s father does NOT attend the aufruf at all. If he happens to daven at the same shul, he may be there. etc…” First of all I think you meant the “kallah’s father”. Second of all, as we all know, there is only ONE shul in Skver…
Why is this a matter of minhag at all? Whoever wants to attend sould, and whoever wants to stay home should do that. As for the original poster from two years ago, it sounded more like you were trying to get your son to do what you would do by guilt tripping him. He’s a big boy, he knows what he wants.
Actually, my future son in law is having an aufruf this Shabbos, Acharon shel Pesach. And as I am a Midwesterner, with Yom Tov and all, I will sadly not attend.
Actually, in the last few years there is a growing trend in Israel, especially by the litvish crowd not to do a aufruf at all and just do a shabbos sheva brachos where both sided join and split the cost togather.
Bklyner: I’ve never heard about this “growing trend” but actually a chooson having an aliya the Shabbos before the chasuna is a chiyuv, atleast by Ashkenazim. The Sefardim I believe hold the Shabbos after the chasuna is a chiyuv. Having said this I doubt very highly that what you call the “litvish crowd” (who by the way 90% of their ancestors were Hungarians and never stepped foot into Lita) have any such growing trend. If someone wants to play down the party and both sides want to chip in for a joint celebration the week of Shabbos sheva berachos that’s their business but it doesn’t take away the chiyuv of “aufruf”, being called up for an aliya the Shabbos before one’s chasuna.
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