April 15, 2010 7:49 pm at 7:49 pm #591560
I am a concerned father who is very Bothered with the fact that Melamdim are constantly bribing children with nosh, Most Contain High Fructose Corn Syrup, which is known to be a major cause of diabetes. H.F.C. Syrup is also known to cause “hyperactivity” which would cause children to misbehave which would then cause the Rebeim have to bribe more heavily. it is my hope that it will help even a few Melamdim and parents realize what they are doing to their children.
A concerned father. Brooklyn NY
Thank youApril 15, 2010 8:01 pm at 8:01 pm #684698
100% right. Same goes to bubbys, good neighbor and pple in shul who feed JUNK to my kids…April 15, 2010 8:03 pm at 8:03 pm #684699
“In the past 10 years, several studies have examined the effects of sugar on children’s behavior. Here are the aspects of the studies that make them credible:
1. Known quantities of sugar in the diets were studied.
2. The studies compared the effects of sugar with those of a placebo (a substance without any active ingredients).
3. The children, parents and researchers involved in the studies never knew which children were given which diets (this is known as a “double-blind” study and helps to prevent unconscious biases from affecting the results).
An analysis of the results of all these studies was published in the November 22, 1995, issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association. The researchers’ conclusions? Sugar in the diet did not affect the children’s behavior. The authors did point out, though, that the studies didn’t rule out completely that sugar might be having a slight effect on a small number of children.”
Of course you are right about Diabetes, and you forgot to mention tooth-decay.April 15, 2010 8:05 pm at 8:05 pm #684700
Same goes to bubbys…..
Let’s please leave Zades out of this however.April 15, 2010 8:32 pm at 8:32 pm #684701
First of all, zeidys are in the bubby category. Please give prizes, nuts, or even ice cubes instead!
But its not the negative behavior effect that bothers me, its more because of health.
I do treat my kids with junk once in a while but they don’t need more than that.
I really am MAD. Every day my kids come home saying that they had a lolly for the siyum, a candy from the bus teacher for good behavior, and another candy from their friend that decided to share.April 15, 2010 8:36 pm at 8:36 pm #684702
no commentApril 15, 2010 8:37 pm at 8:37 pm #684703
My son just came off the bus with a note that he needs to bring candies for the shabbos party tomorrow!!! HURRAY!!
So much for my efforts!! LolApril 15, 2010 8:50 pm at 8:50 pm #684704
Although in truth it is much more likely that Diabetes is caused by our (not mine) diet high in refined carbohydrates (pasta, pizza, bread, crackers, etc.) than the candy.April 15, 2010 9:31 pm at 9:31 pm #684705d aMember
My second grade Rebbe (I’m giving away my Yeshiva by saying this!) gave out sprinkles and chocolate chips! We used to put them under our Siddur or Chumash and crush them.
I still have my first grade Chumash, and on the inside cover there a number of cute animal stickers. Seems like my Rebbe gave those out instead of the candy. Every time I see the stickers, I have this special feeling! He also had a point system and every Friday he would take out prizes (that were hugangous in our eyes) and we could pick out a prize based on our points. (I never really got anything big!)
As my future sister-in-law would say, “To each there own!” (That reminds me, my brothers getting married SOON! yikes!!!)April 18, 2010 6:50 am at 6:50 am #684706
Hey Sam, did you submit this letter to Hamodia? I saw an identical one there this wk.
Funny how I’ve got no clue who you are but that letter felt so personal!! I felt like I know the author from the CR!! LOL!!April 18, 2010 11:06 am at 11:06 am #684707chesednameParticipant
There is nothing wrong with positive reinforcement.
they could use stickers, but they can use nosh as well.
i don’t think all this junk food is good either, but i do think shabbos party nosh is a good thing.
everything in moderation.April 18, 2010 12:50 pm at 12:50 pm #684708
Chesed- of course, there’s a difference in depriving them. Kids certainly need nosh, but what they get today, from outside the home, is outragous.
Melamdim/teachers, zeidys/bubbys, and others: PLEASE! For the sake of our childrens’ health, please cut on nosh.
Thank you!April 18, 2010 10:04 pm at 10:04 pm #684709oomisParticipant
Rebbies should NOT be giving nuts to children. Besides potentially being a choking hazard in the age group that most needs the “reward” system, there are too many nut and seed allergies in children nowadays, and many schools are now nut-free zones (with the exception of some of the teachers and administration who are CLEARLY nuts! JK ) I agree that certain types of nosh are bad for kids, so maybe they can use stickers and tickets (which are redeemable at the end of the year) for a nice prize. My son’s rebbie gave them such tickets, and they are very excited at the end of fifth grade to get toys and games. One nice gift, versus a lot of chazzerai, meant a lot to them.April 19, 2010 2:26 pm at 2:26 pm #684710SJSinNYCMember
Positive reinforcement with food is more likely to give kids food issues. Food is not a bribery tool. Food is for nourishment.
HFCS is bad bad and more bad. I would post a link to the latest study I read but YWN doesn’t allow links. Here is an excerpt from the article:
“A Princeton University research team has demonstrated that all sweeteners are not equal when it comes to weight gain: Rats with access to high-fructose corn syrup gained significantly more weight than those with access to table sugar, even when their overall caloric intake was the same.
In addition to causing significant weight gain in lab animals, long-term consumption of high-fructose corn syrup also led to abnormal increases in body fat, especially in the abdomen, and a rise in circulating blood fats called triglycerides. The researchers say the work sheds light on the factors contributing to obesity trends in the United States.”
So, if you are going to make my kids associate food as a reward, please have the decency to give them pretzels or potato chips. But I much prefer stickers, or extra recess time to play outside.April 19, 2010 9:07 pm at 9:07 pm #684711
Hi YM Moderator-80, First-able I’m not going to go into details here, because
I am not Technical. But superficial-y I can show you from your first reply, about the “AM Association”.
looking on the words “Known Quantities of Sugar” @ No.1, is there a Number? If not. Then you see already the PROOF of this written format of Study.
Second-able, it sounds like they know about the “Diabetes” part. So why in the world they jump into, Details of the Mild-er problem That is – Behavior. What I need is, Proof from Researches that doesn’t have any Personal Interests (what that was already) what they have Responsibilities coming from their self, and not – Protective Responsibilities coming from Association or so.
I am not criticizing no-one.
Here is A issue of giving children Medic. Therapy, for Behavior what this can be sometime complicated and of getting Side Effect. So I wanted to Denounce it.April 19, 2010 10:03 pm at 10:03 pm #684712
“Known Quantities of Sugar” @ No.1, is there a Number? If not. Then you see already the PROOF of this written format of Study.
This was not a study. It was a review of studies. What I wrote was a very brief summary of the review. It was not the review itself.
it sounds like they know about the “Diabetes” part. So why in the world they jump into, Details of the Mild-er problem That is – Behavior
Because a study or review never looks at all questions re an issue. It looks at a very specific question. Usually one that is of interest to the community or to related researchApril 20, 2010 10:51 am at 10:51 am #684713
How do we ‘really’ know that all these studies of the supposed relationship between sugar and hyperactivity or other issues with kids are so true?
Oh I know people will say “I saw a kid get sugar and then was acting up and the next day when he did not get it he wasn’t”.
But can we see everything the same way G-d sees it with all the paramaters and factors involved?
Do we see that the the day the kid was “acting up” he started off the day worried abot something (like perhaps some other kid who had been bullying him who said he was going to “get him” in two days which was now “today”) ?
Do we really know every detail of every day and what causes every single emotion at every instant that we can say for certain it had to be the sugar and we would
be willing to testify in the Heavenly court (when we get there) that we knew for sure with the same confidence that H-sh-m himself has that it had to the the sugar and could not possibly be anything else?
We cannot judge another till we have been in their place, so how can we say it must be the sugar when we haven’t been through everything with every worry, the kid goes through when we simply do not know every detail of everything they go through?
The medical association these days is no more reliable then the scientists
who have been caught making of fabrications about so called “global warming”.April 20, 2010 10:56 am at 10:56 am #684714
When I was a kid, no one I knew had ever heard of allergies to nuts.
Why in the last 40 years are there suddely so many allergies to nuts?
Has anyone asked themselves, what message H-sh-m is sending us when things that
have traditionally been harmless, are suddenly poisonous, to so many people?April 20, 2010 11:03 am at 11:03 am #684715
What will happen if people start developing allergies to other common things like
potatos or beans (no more cholent) or milk or eggs (no more pasteries or cakes) or wine (no arba kosos on Pesach)?
What would happen if any food and any given ingredient in any food suddenly had a
noticeable % of people who were now allergic to it?
Would all food be banned from all public places?
How about in our homes, would no one ever have guests again?April 20, 2010 6:27 pm at 6:27 pm #684716
YW Moderator-80 again.
If I was clear however, I prefer you check (and investigate, maybe out of their-guidelines) the Amount of the “Sugar” they gave.April 20, 2010 6:41 pm at 6:41 pm #684717
smartcookie, Don’t get into Pressure about Candy’s (there is more to speak about). The market is extremely Big.
You can invest a few minutes in GROCERY (what an investment) to find enough, without
“High Fructose” corn syrup (from the reliable company’s what’s, about to discuss).April 20, 2010 7:13 pm at 7:13 pm #684718
Stick to one point! (make it haskofah’dig) Don;t eat “Maaseh Yedei Odom” Ingridients.
Then it will interpret the whole Health Corruption.
How about the R’AMBA’M in Hilcho’s Dei’os’s whole page (first page).April 20, 2010 9:22 pm at 9:22 pm #684720
SAM- start looking at ingredients of any food you buy. Ull be surprised how many day to day items have corn syrup. Bread, peanut butter, cookies .
We can’t expect our kids to survive on carrots. I wish companies would limit the amount of this poisin that they include.April 20, 2010 9:42 pm at 9:42 pm #684721ronrsrMember
When you were a child, it was not so easy to diagnose peanut or other food allergies. Children with such allergies or deficiencies (such as celiac) were labeled as sickly, or failing to thrive.
Through Hashem’s mercy, doctors are today able to pinpoint the problem to specific allergy. This is clearly mercy, rather than punishment, because there is much less illness, death and pain as a result of this knowledge.
There are many diseases that may appear to be proliferating when in fact it is better diagnosis that makes them appear more common.April 27, 2010 4:16 pm at 4:16 pm #684723
Reply to smartcookie! Again, the choices are Extremely big. You will be surprised
how much you can enjoy with for instance, “Natural Peanut Butter” or “Ketchup” witht High Fructose” etc. Only consumer can stop the market of Poisonous, and Non food FOOD.April 27, 2010 5:53 pm at 5:53 pm #684724
Only consumer can stop the market of Poisonous, and Non food FOOD.
True, but people don’t even dream that there’s corn syrup in their bread, peanut butter and other essential foods that we take for granted are from the “healthy food” we eat.
If only we would all start reading labels and get this high fructose junk off the shelves…April 28, 2010 3:03 am at 3:03 am #684725tomim tihyeMember
I’ve noticed some nosh has glucose-fructose syrup listed in ingredients. Is this the same poison as high-fructose corn syrup, better, or worse?April 29, 2010 12:35 am at 12:35 am #684726
Sam Responsible, I did stick to the point.
You apparantly want sugar banned and I provided some
alternate ideas to the claim that sugar is as evil as you seem to want to make it out to be.
As for your quotes and things to look up I do not know much Hebrew other then some very common terms, such as those I use below, so I do not know what you said or have an English Rambam to look up.
But if the Rambam said that sugar was assur I think we would have heard about it long ago.
If you are intrepreting from the Rambam to make up your own halachos, I must ask if you are a paskening rav and who holds by your psakim.
If you do not want sugar in your house, don’t have it, but who gave you the right to try and get it banned for everyone else?April 29, 2010 12:52 am at 12:52 am #684727
Ronrsr, you are right that modern medical science is far in advance of what was available even a few years ago let alone when I was a child.
When I was 10 no one even imagined anything like MRI machines for example except science fiction writers.
However I had heard for example, that medical researchers had concluded that
allergies and asthma were far more common in kids growing up in the city without pets then kids who grew up in the country with pets and among various other animals.
So some of it it seems might be comming from changing lifestyles and not just better diagnosis.
Also if previously, it had been mearly misunderstanding of an ailment, and what the real cause was (Peanut butter for example).
That would not explain why it must be totally banned when we are told the reason for the ban is not that someone just might not feel so well but that they could supposedly suddenly fall into a coma and instant death, G-d forbid, just from the smell from someone elses sandwich on the other side of an open eating area.
I mean when I was kid, I never heard of any stories of that happening to anyone in any school cafeteria even where no one could figure out the reason for the death.
Now I have heard stories of kids dying in school because of attacks from other kids.
For example several years ago a kid in a public school in Personhattan killed another kid with a single punch.
I think bullying and hatred are far more dangerous then anything anyone eats and yet
there never has been and never will be, any laws totally banning from schools and other public areas, anyone who looks like he might violently attack another kid.April 29, 2010 1:54 am at 1:54 am #684728
Hereorthere- ur very right abt bullying being a threat.
But this thread is about junk for the kids which IN ITSELF is terrible. Therefore were discussing it and it really should be tackled.
Bullying is another danger in schools and should be taken care of too.April 29, 2010 3:05 am at 3:05 am #684729
Smartcookie my point about junk food is that parents should exercise their influence on their own kids and not try and force society into what they ‘think’ is good.
Now the liberals want to ban McDonalds from giving a toy with each happy meal in the false name of stopping childhood obesity.
All that will do is put some people out of work, when McDonalds does not need them because they sell less food, to fewer customers.
The liberals forcing this on us could not care less, about stopping childhood obesity.
This is just a scam to attack business and further destroy the freedoms and economic propserity of this once free, country.
All this “health” stuff has perhaps a small kernel of truth with massive propaganda packed around it like several feet of styrofoam around a single glass bead and you are told the entire package is one huge ball of glass.
Once you have given up your freedoms and money to pay for it and open it, only whne it’s too late, do you find out you have been royally ripped off, and permamently lost out, big time.
It’s like the fake global warming scam, we are supposed to reduce our choices and freedom and lifestyle because of some big ‘scare’ that big brother government is going to ‘fix’ and ‘make all better for us’, who ‘are too helpless’ to run our own lives or make our own decisions.
Pretty soon the government will be comming into our homes and cutting our food for us because knives are too dangerous for ‘regular people’ to handle and it will be illegal to even have a butter knife because it’s too dangerous.
But of course it won’t be needed because the butter will be illegal by then, anyway.
Just wait till all regular food is illegal and we are ordered to live on Soylent Green crackers.May 2, 2010 10:16 pm at 10:16 pm #684730
Hereorthere first-able, Be accurate. I talked about “High Fructose Corn Syrup”. Try to
be a little technical to-eliminate only specific Ingredients.
There is more about to discuss. Trans-Fat! Causing cancer, heart attacks,….. hashem yishmereinu.May 2, 2010 10:35 pm at 10:35 pm #684731
hereorthere. about the RAMBAM I mend. Look on that even for Real food (natural) he used up A whole page for it.
There is more about to discuss. Trans-Fat! causing cancer, heart attacks……. hashem
H.F. Corn Syrup and Trans-Fat for instance, after processing with……. it got
Synthetic OR Poisoning.
Nou you’re clear?May 2, 2010 10:48 pm at 10:48 pm #684732
tomim tihye, IT IS BETTER. Fructose itself and Corn Syrup itself is not as HIGH FRUCTOSE.
High Fructose went trough a lot of processes and it’s, as I understand An extreme high
power of sugar coming from Corn syrup.May 2, 2010 10:53 pm at 10:53 pm #684733mom12Participant
both my ‘girls’ and ‘boys’ schools have anti junk rules for snack..
I must admit the girls school is more strict about it- they actually take the nash away snak may only be a PLAIN mezonos (no chocolate chip or sprinkle cookies- thats for shabos party) and fruit or veggies..
If the boys want to take have something unacceptable I remind them of the note the school sent home…it usually works.
On the whole I dont bring it in the houseMay 4, 2010 3:20 am at 3:20 am #684734
Sam responsible I do not have a Rambam to look up.
But if he had assured all food except bread and beans, as I said, we would have known about it long ago.
Either he did not assur it or we follow others who hold differently, those are the only two possibilities.
Besides people who live longer because they do not have heart attacks or cancer, often live long enough to get Alzheimers.
What if given the choices someone would not want to live long enough to get Alzheimers?
Do you think you or anyone else has the right to force someone to live a worse life not eating things they enjoy, just so they can live long enough to get a disease they constantly live in fear of?May 4, 2010 3:29 am at 3:29 am #684735
Also a young person can G-d forbid get a heart attack and die even if he eats healthy.
It’s up to H-sh-m how long someone lives.
As I said if you take away my rights and my choices, you cannot guarantee that I will live one second longer.
But you will be guaranteeing that my life will be worse, and far less enjoyable.
Now where did the Rambam say that you have the right to make my life worse?May 4, 2010 3:39 am at 3:39 am #684736
King David (as I remember) was told through prophecy that he was to live exactly 70 years and die on Shabbos.
He asked H-sh-m “let me live longer so that I do not die on Shabbos” he was told no because his sons reign was to begin then and his reign could not overlap his sons reign.
I believe he then asked to die earlier so that still it not be in Shabbos and was told that he had to live his full life.
So his life’s length was set no matter what.
Now what would have happened if he had eaten nothing but transfats every day all day.
He still would have lived those 70 years and not a single moment less.
Now you might argue that he might have been sick and suffering.
But ‘might’ is the operative word, you do not ‘know’ for sure.
What if King David would answer that he liked the transfats and it was worth any suffering he would go through from it effects?
Did anyone have the right to tell him how he had to live his life?
I had heard that medical researchers had found that kids growing up without pets had a higher rate of asthma and similar breathing ailments.
What if the government ordered every family with children to have at least one cat and one dog in the house in the name of “health”?May 4, 2010 3:57 am at 3:57 am #684737
It was either Rava or Rabbah (I keep forgetting which) who used to eat fat meat and wine which he said opened up his mind to learn Torah.
If he had lived during the time of the Rambam and if they lived near each other and talked to each other regularly, do you think the Rambam would have told him he was forbidden from eating the fat meat and wine?
Even if the Rambam had said that, do you think Rava or Rabbah (I keep forgetting which), would have stopped….Especially if it meant his Torah study would have suffered as a result?May 9, 2010 11:26 pm at 11:26 pm #684738
hereorthere firstable let my self organize and go one by one.
about the last statement you said that the Rambam don’t let eat Fat, this is A different discussion. Go search for the new revolution about Saturated Fat (shmaltz) that it’s said-not to be healthy! I will leave it for next time, it is to much for now!
about King david Exactly for the Prophet it would not take away his life and not effect him. But we don’t have this prophecy. (it goes together, such A prophecy would come only in such environment reassured in any consumption of Poison). Pause!May 10, 2010 1:15 am at 1:15 am #684739
It’s said not to be healthy, but like I said, no one can guarantee any single individual won’t get hit by car and die tomorrow or that his genes won’t allow him to live his full life no matter what he eats.
I’m not saying we have such propchey today but we still have Hascgocha protis and G-d decides how long anyone will live, not a secular anti Torah government which uses “health” as excuses to turn this country into Stalinist Russia.
OK pausing….May 10, 2010 2:27 am at 2:27 am #684740chanceParticipant
It seems to me that people are not interested in seeing how the government is controling peoples lives by not allowing chemicals like MSG and nutrasweet to be used all the time and will ban items like vitamins which is what the body need to live on. I wonder when our community will start realizing that the health does not come through a needle , it comes when you put the right things into your body.May 10, 2010 12:12 pm at 12:12 pm #684741
Chance, you are so right.
Some people wanted to ban coffee till they found out it has some positive health benifits as well.
And I could argue that fatty foods do as well.
I used to visit nursing homes as part of the yeshivah program to
reach out to and show other yidden that they are not forgotten, and to encourage them to embrace yiddishkeit (at any age).
What I noticed was that the ones with Parkinsens and Alzheimers and other diseases of the brain were mostly the skinny ones.
Those who were “overweight” were largly free of such diseases compared to the % of those who were skinny and had such diseases.
The “fat” ones were mentally aware and could hold an intelligent conversation while the skinny ones were lucky if they even knew someone was in the room, let alone what they were saying.
And it is not just government control over what we may eat, it’s
unconstitutional government control in every area of our lives and health is just one more excuse to attack and vilify business.
They are also going after animal breeders quite viciously, for example calling them “abusers of animals” and we all know how they have devestated and mercislesly bashed, the energy industry and the auto manufacturers and they practically have people rioting on Wall Street calling for the blood of anyone in the financial industry.
In the movie; Escape from LA (Sequal to Escape from New York)
in one scene, the asssitant to the President for life (remind you of someone in office now who wants that for himself? perhaps) rattles off about 10 or 15 things that the government has banned like smoking and red meat and I think restrictions on where someone could go and what they could believe in etc…At the end of the list Snake Pliskin sarcsatically responds;
“Land of the Free”.May 10, 2010 10:46 pm at 10:46 pm #684742
Hereorthere, It’s said not to be healthy, but like I said….
sorry I didn’t express my self well. I am better in spelling then
What I meant is, that Saturated Fat (schmaltz, butter etc.) is definitely Healthy! by the way also critical important, not as it is to be said- it’s not!
Going back quick to our subject.
You’re right there is Hashgacha Pratis. But may I attack you, if you mention this here, then believe also in the R’ambam’s words exatctly like you hear it. The s’hulchan o’rouch’s p’saks is mainly from the R’amba’m. There is no p’sak on health maybe because there is no one who holds differently. I t ‘ s c o m m o n s e n s e.
Let’s go next. what you said ……were mostly the skinny ones.
Don’t you know that Fat doesn’t affect on weight? (also my experience).May 10, 2010 11:04 pm at 11:04 pm #684743
Hereorthere, also a young person can G-d forbid get a heart attack and die even
if he eats healthy.
You are right, but you know what I gonna tell you? from which “healthy eating” guides you’re talking about. Again! the government. and not with – A search for- responsible and not business minded Nutritionists, right!?May 10, 2010 11:33 pm at 11:33 pm #684744
Hereorthere. A previous response.
my point about junk food is that parents should exercise their influence on their own kids and not try and force society into what they ‘think’ is good.
This is the very reason! I want to the Environment around my kids (grocery’s) should
change because of my own children I must admit. You know how many consumption of poison
your kids get even as you said, Not by you.May 11, 2010 1:22 pm at 1:22 pm #684745
OK fat does not affect weight, but the liberals still want it strictly regulated and eventually banned.
Also we do not pasken by what some people claim is “common sense” if we did, it would be mutar for business to be open on Shabbos since “common sense” says that many businesses need the Saturday revenue to keep from going bankrupt, especially in this economy.
If it is not specifically assur, no one has the right to go around making it assur just because they think they should unless they can find rabbon to specifically pasken that way, and none that I have heard of have paskened that way in this case that we are talking about.
Even if one or two would, there would probably still be others who would hold differently, if asked.
No I did not get my info that people can be healthy and stil die from the government.
I actually got it from news reports (from many years ago when the news was still pretending to actually care about truth and real issues rather then just spewing liberal lies and propaganda) as well as from word of mouth “oh did you hear about the 24 year old man who was just married and died that Shabbos during Krias Ha-Torah of a heart attack?” (True story from what I heard).
As far as your kids going into a grocery, it is not up to government or the store owner to regulate everything for everyone else for the sake of your (or anyones) kids.
Like I said if that were the case then everything everyone does must be regulated.
Kids can’t ride in cars because to many die in accidents.
We cvan’t have trains because people die on the tracks.
Government these days thinks religion is evil and bad for kids and it makes them “homophobic” so kids must be taken out of religious homes and placed in foster care etc…May 11, 2010 1:31 pm at 1:31 pm #684746
G-d put us in this world and told us to make the Gashmius holy, not to totally stay away from it.
Most mitzvohs are done with gashmius Tphilling are physical so is Matzoh and Wine and a Sefer Torah are all physical things.
You cannot regulate the world into safety not in terms of physical health and not in terms of spiratual health.
People must raise their kids to be healthy and responsible, not try and order the world to change so they can be safe while still being irresponsible, that is not the Torah way.May 11, 2010 11:00 pm at 11:00 pm #684747
Hereorthere No! the “common sense” of Torah I meant. The R’amba’m has S’iatah D’ishmaya’h H’aloch’o-wise.May 11, 2010 11:15 pm at 11:15 pm #684748
Hereorthere, about what you said.
I actually got it from news reports (from many years ago….
You know? Trans-Fat who is the big cause of Heart Attacks, as I mention already is
about 100(?) years old. So they might have been die from that.
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