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February 2, 2011 2:12 pm at 2:12 pm #594714
I was reading one of our “Frum ” publications last week & I have a question. I do not know if it is only me, or if you agree.
We read, all of the time, about how the Yeshivos are ready to close because of financial crisis. Tomchei Shabbos and other orginizations like that, are busier than ever because everyone is hurting financially. Yet look at the ads that are in the magazines, and newspaper. Pesach in hotels in the US, Carribean, Mexico, Switzerland Europe etc, for a bargain price of $2500 pp & up.
Also, let redecorate our house with brass, marble ….. which does not come cheap. Also they are showing the newest in bedroom furniture. A king sized bed in a frum publication. Where has our sense of Tznius in our lifestyle gone.February 2, 2011 7:16 pm at 7:16 pm #737305
I also can’t figure it out.
I just keep telling myself,until a person has the nisayon of money they can’t know for sure how well they’d handle it.February 2, 2011 7:24 pm at 7:24 pm #737306deiyezoogerMember
But they downgraded it, instead of pesach in Italy now its Pesach in palm springs…..February 2, 2011 7:34 pm at 7:34 pm #737307
It should be “twin your Pesach with….”February 2, 2011 7:36 pm at 7:36 pm #737308
who’s to say those people who can afford such luxuries don’t give gerously as well??February 2, 2011 8:26 pm at 8:26 pm #737309
Mike has a good point,but bbubbee is saying that something’s missing somewhere with so much opulence and poverty in the same areas!February 2, 2011 8:47 pm at 8:47 pm #737310☕️coffee addictParticipant
I never understood Pesach in hotels (let alone this year) The whole point of yetzias Mitzrayim is to say we were slaves in Mitzrayim and if you don’t do backbreaking work cleaning your house you never feel it (tongue in cheek b/c i come home 2 days before Pesach)February 2, 2011 11:15 pm at 11:15 pm #737311recovering_addictMember
Those who have, have…..Let them spend as they wish.February 2, 2011 11:30 pm at 11:30 pm #737312lesschumrasParticipant
By putting Frum in ” “, are you implying they are not frum for accepting the ads? How does Tznius apply to the ads?
You have a right to your opinion, but not to jusge others by your standards. Don’t read the publication or give any business to the advertisers if that is how you feel.February 2, 2011 11:39 pm at 11:39 pm #737313
the Haves vs the Have-notsFebruary 3, 2011 12:15 am at 12:15 am #737314
Wow, did I miss the thread about spending too much on mishloach manos that some are already griping about pesach in a hotel?February 3, 2011 12:35 am at 12:35 am #737315
hahaha apushatayid! ;-DFebruary 3, 2011 12:53 am at 12:53 am #737316deiyezoogerMember
“Wow, did I miss the thread about spending too much on mishloach manos that some are already griping about pesach in a hotel? “
You cant open a magazine for the last few weeks without seeing those hotel adds.February 3, 2011 1:03 am at 1:03 am #737317GadolseekerMember
I didn’t read all the comments on this thread.. I skimmed the first one though… The title of the thread caught my eye and I thought maybe it would be about the “Jewish Advertising” that I see a lot that causes my stomach to turn. The sheital ads. Some of them are so un-tzniusdik. How the models are posed really makes me sick. I’m not talking about all the shietal ads, but I’m just saying that if you know someone who makes ads for sheitals, please ask them to make it tzniusdik.February 3, 2011 1:21 am at 1:21 am #737318
lesschumras, what I was saying with the ” ” was that it wasn’t in a publication that the Yeshivishe velt would not bring into their homes, because they espouse ideas that we do not feel we want to excpose our children to.
Tznius refered to the types of beds that they were showing off. In our homes, we do not raise our children with one king size bed in our rooms.
I was not judging, I was asking if my feelings were correct or am I living back in the 50’s when modesty (in dress & also in our homes) was more popular, even among the not frum world, than it is today.February 3, 2011 1:22 am at 1:22 am #737319
Eclipse, thanks for understanding what I meant.February 3, 2011 1:38 am at 1:38 am #737320doodle jumpParticipant
Please don’t be quick to judge. You just never know what is behind each guest’s decision to attend the hotel for Pesach. If they can afford it, why not? Maybe they finally have everyone together and a hotel is just the thing. Maybe the in-laws are treating. Maybe this pesach comes after such difficult nisyonos that everyone just needs to breath. I agree that home is the best. All the special foods and minhagim and nothing is dictated by a schedule , but sometimes, a hotel is a g-d sent.February 3, 2011 2:00 am at 2:00 am #737321hanabMember
My current pet peeve is all the phone intrusions about sales, raffels. While it could be I have to renew my do-not-call, somehow I suspect it won’t make a difference….today I listened all the way to the end, as someone suggested to me, and no, there was no “press x to have your number removed from future calls”.February 3, 2011 2:18 am at 2:18 am #737322kavod hatorahParticipant
coudnt agree more its disgusting whats going on taking all the goyish advertiasing tricks someone should put an end to itFebruary 3, 2011 3:23 am at 3:23 am #737323
Kavod Hatorah. Thanks for validating my feelings.February 3, 2011 4:46 am at 4:46 am #737324
Here we go again. Try to be dan l’kaf zchus. Hashem is in charge of who has what and why.
Many of the Pesach programs closed last year because of the economy. This is how these people make parnasah for the year. Those who need to go away for Pesach, those who can afford to go away for Pesach, those whose family count on the Pesach reunion each year, are way more than just grateful to the ehrlich groups that run these glatt kosher programs for both gebrochs and non-gebrochs families. Many Chashuv and popular Rabbonim count on these programs as well and actually attract many families who otherwise would stay home.
As far as advertising “king” size beds. There are many people who CAN use large beds and have the room for them and there is nothing wrong with it. Believe it or not, there are many people whose bedrooms are so large these days they can put two in, and in addition, some people put it in a kid’s bedroom or guest room. In a master bedroom, a King headboard can be furnished with two sets of twin mattresses so the beds are separate and can be separated. They don’t necessarily get attached to the headboard. This is a different option for couples who want the beds together and have two night tables but don’t have room for two 48″ beds, or don’t want to buy twin headboards. Furthermore, older couples might have no problem having a king size bed and it is no one’s business if they do. So why be “choshed” anyone and why take such offense to it? Why be so bothered by it? It means nothing and has nothing to do with tznius. A single person can have a King size bed as well as a widow, widower, divorcee. Why immediately do you have to think everything is wrong! Stop worrying about what is going on in someone else’s bedroom and behind someone else’s closed doors. Why do we have to make everything OUR business. It isn’t! So can we stop turning everything into a sour situation and just let everyone be?
I also do not understand why people need to go to far away European or exotic places for Pesach or other Yomim Tovim. It doesn’t seem balbatish or Heimish to me. But that’s me and it is not MY place to say what someone else should or shouldn’t do. In many cases this is the only vacation the family takes for the year or for many years. This is THE big vacation and if they choose to combine it with Pesach, how or why should I or anyone else not fargin the woman of the house to have a real vacation? It really is none of our business what others choose to do. If they get there and they realize it lacks the “tam” of the Yom Tov, they will learn for themselves not to do it again. If you or I tell them “you will miss the tam of Yom Tov” they will not hear you or believe you anyway.
I have been home for most Yomim Tovim and I have also had the pleasure of being in a Hotel for Pesach. Each choice has its own pros and cons, but I can’t say that we lacked the tam of Pesach by being in a Hotel, it just is not true. It certainly was different than being home. It sure was. I didn’t see a kitchen for 8 days! I didn’t wash a dish and I didn’t burn my hands or cut myself even once. I didn’t have to set, serve or clear off. I also didn’t have to shop or shlep the food, plan the menus, prepare of cook. Actually I felt like a slave that was freed from Mitzraim.February 3, 2011 5:38 am at 5:38 am #737325
Oy l’rasha, oy l’scheinav. We live in the most materialistic country on earth, so why shouldn’t it rub off?
Half a century ago, when I was a curious kid, I noticed that people who wanted to be “real Americans” got nose jobs and changed their names from “Greenberg” to “Greenhill.”
Now, we spend on granite kitchens and thosand-dollar suits and sheitels that look better than any real woman’s hair could. then we brag about how we insulate ourselves from the tumahdik society around us by not having TV or internet.
It’s not a matter of beds or hotels, it’s a matter of wanting to make others jealous of what we can afford. “Don’t you deserve the best?” The best olam hazeh or olam habah?February 3, 2011 5:49 am at 5:49 am #737326
bbubbee,we need to call in Tangent Control.
Bbubbee was describing a sad discrepancy,mainly.
It’s good to READ THE ORIGINAL POST.February 3, 2011 5:54 am at 5:54 am #737327rockymountainsMember
“I just keep telling myself,until a person has the nisayon of money they can’t know for sure how well they’d handle it. “
If anyone wants to give money I’ll try and handle the nissayon of it..February 3, 2011 6:47 am at 6:47 am #737328
Last person who asked Hashem for a test ran into problems….February 3, 2011 7:15 am at 7:15 am #737329
Eclipse there is no comparison to what Bbubbee brought up, which has been raised many times before. Yeshivas close because they are mismanaged or because they no longer have the support they need to stay opened. Yeshivas who have the support always find the money. Someone just told me that his child’s yeshiva admitted to him that the actually tuition was only 3/4 of what he is paying and agreed to give him a donation receipt for the rest of it. They agreed that 1/4 of what he was being charged for tuition was for covering kids who did not pay or did not pay full tuition. Well that is smart accounting in my book because if you are honest with your parent body, they will be more supportive of you. Why call it tuition when it is not. If 1/4 of what you are charging for tuition is not meant for the tuition of that child but for another then you are in fact exacting a donation from each parent paying full scale. Those parents ARE then entitled to deduct that donation from their taxes. Fair is fair.
A yeshiva who is honest in that way, will get better support from their parent body and will not fold so quickly IMHO. As far as Tomchei Shabbos is concerned, there will always be a need, and as I said before Hashem is in charge of who has and who does not. So don’t be mekaneh those who have because they are the ones giving the big bucks to tzedaka as they are supposed to and many, many, many give much, much more than required so why keep harping on what they choose to do with the rest of their money?February 3, 2011 7:58 am at 7:58 am #737330
I didn’t think anyone here was being mekaneh,or harping.Did I miss it?February 3, 2011 1:35 pm at 1:35 pm #737331
“Actually I felt like a slave that was freed from Mitzraim.”
I would LOVE to go to a hotel for Pesach but my husband says we can’t afford it– even for just us two.
The free-est I ever felt were the 4 Pesachs our whole immediate family spent in Tosh (outside Montreal). We rented a pristine, new apt. for 10-11 dys (for $500!!). Even tho’ we had to shlep alot of things with us– pots, pans, food, NO linens, etc., just the mere fact that I didn’t havta clean our house was a tremendous burden lifted off of my shoulders– a gift! Also,for some meals, my husband & sons brought us food from the tishes, so I cooked alot less. Those Pesachs were a mechaya!!
I’d go away in a heartbeat if I could! B’H, I know our family would easily survive without us.February 3, 2011 3:00 pm at 3:00 pm #737332
If you can afford it, lucky you…February 3, 2011 3:09 pm at 3:09 pm #737333kookalibeerMember
the problem, isnt with the advertisers, its with you. the are alloud ro write and advertise whatever they want, that is- the newspaper found it apropriet to be written there. you could decide if to or not to pay attention, or perchase the items being advertised…February 3, 2011 3:20 pm at 3:20 pm #737334oomisParticipant
“A king sized bed in a frum publication”
Would you mind telling me what is not tzniusdig about that? Are you saying it is ok to show an ad for twin beds but not a king size? Halacha requires two separate bed at certain times, it does not require that both of them be tiny. If they have room for a Kingsize, kol hakavod, as long as they adhere to halacha, what business is it of anyone’s? Sometimes people go too far int heir quest for lack of tznis. We have enough material to keep us legitimately concerned, why look for tzoros in every corner?February 3, 2011 4:05 pm at 4:05 pm #737335
Always here, sounds like heaven. No matter where I am for Pesach, I always clean, clean, clean from top to bottom as if I am home. Cleaning for Pesach is a chiyuv for me, no matter what.
Eclipse, sorry, not necessarily on this thread, harping in general because we have done this before on other threads. What is this round two, three, four or more in judging what others do and what they should do with their money instead of what they are doing? How does anyone really know what anyone truly does with their money and how much they give to tzedaka as well?February 3, 2011 5:25 pm at 5:25 pm #737336
The OP seems to have 2 separate gripes.
1: Mosdos are starving for money, and apparantly people are jetting off to some castle somewhere for Pesach, spending thousands of dollars in the process.
2: (I’m not sure how he/she comes to this conclusion) The photo of a king size bed is in indication that tznius standards in advertising have dropped. (Not sure if this king size bed appeared in an ad for a hotel or a furniture store.
These are directed toward the OP. bbubbee, could you please explain what you would like to see happen instead of those who jet off to some hotel for Pesach? Could you explain the king size bed and the conclusion you reached regarding tznius?February 3, 2011 5:49 pm at 5:49 pm #737337SJSinNYCMember
It is not a rich person’s obligation to support others (after fulfilling maaser of course, although even that is debatable).
If they have the money, why shouldn’t they spend Pesach in a nice place? Why should they stay at home and do all the work themselves? To make you feel better about your lot in life.
Someone who has only been to a hotel on Pesach as staff.February 3, 2011 5:57 pm at 5:57 pm #737338
If I had the money I would take my whoe family, in laws included 🙂
There is absolutly nothing wrong with it, if you can afford, then have a great time….February 3, 2011 6:09 pm at 6:09 pm #737339
oH.February 4, 2011 12:36 am at 12:36 am #737340
oomis, to define my idea of Tzinus, it is to be modest, in your actions, speech, dress & also in your home furnishing etc. It means also not being is someones face. If you want to show a room that has 2 kings sized beds, kol hakovod. But my feeling is that if the publications are makpid not to show any women’s face in their magazine, because it is not Tznius, then showing one king sized bed in a master bedroom, which is what they were advertising, then that is not Tzniusdig.
I asked a friend of mine what she thought of that advertisement.
She started crying! She is having Parnosa problems, lives in a home that is comparable to slum dwellings. She said that she reads these publications on Shabbos to relax & try to forget her Tzoros, but it was ” in her face” what is out there & what she is lacking. She said that it caused discord in her Shalom Bayis, because of their financial lack. Is that what we want to cause, strife in Klal Yisroel. Yes, there has always been the Haves & the Have nots, but for thoses who don’t have, shouldn’t the haves curtail showing off their gifts from Hashem when it hurts others?February 4, 2011 2:14 am at 2:14 am #737341
Go to a hotel for Pesach? If you need the break, OK. Cleaning for Pesach can be overwhelming, especially with a crowd of little ones schlepping crumbs all over.
But why does it have to be a five star luxury hotel with a heated pool, in Aruba, with a 24-hour cafe and bar and MBD providing the entertainment? Too much of a good thing is too much. Go someplace local and not astronomically priced, and give the difference to Maos Chittin. Or your yeshiva.
Remember the Yetzer Ha’Ra loves to work overtime – especially when he’s conning you into thinking you’re just doing hidur hamitzvah, but actually setting yourself up for his buddy the Ayin Ha’Ra.February 4, 2011 3:51 pm at 3:51 pm #737342
Midwest, YOU have no idea JUST HOW MUCH money they already give to Maos Chitim!!!!!
People who have a hard time looking at these ads SHOULDN’T look and they should practice NOT being mekaneh other people. Hashem has his plan. PEOPLE who advertise do so to make a parnassah and they do so because the competition is fierce. Please stop judging and start understanding something about marketing and competition.
editedFebruary 4, 2011 4:00 pm at 4:00 pm #737343SJSinNYCMember
Aries, thumbs up.
No tzedaka organizations (or individuals who need tzedaka) have the rights to another person’s money.February 4, 2011 4:15 pm at 4:15 pm #737344
“Remember the Yetzer Ha’Ra loves to work overtime”
Yes, and in this case it is the lashon hara about people who live a certain lifestyle.February 4, 2011 4:30 pm at 4:30 pm #737345February 4, 2011 4:36 pm at 4:36 pm #737346gavra_at_workParticipant
Aries, thumbs up.
No tzedaka organizations (or individuals who need tzedaka) have the rights to another person’s money.
Double thumbs up.February 4, 2011 4:41 pm at 4:41 pm #737347WolfishMusingsParticipant
Go someplace local and not astronomically priced, and give the difference to Maos Chittin. Or your yeshiva.
Why stop at Pesach hotels?
Wouldn’t it be better if everyone just bought a $20 Esrog and gave more money to Tomche Shabbos or Project Mazon or some other similar program? Wouldn’t it be better if, instead of buying a $20 bouquet of flowers for Shabbos (or Shavuous), we limited ourselves to a $5 bunch of three carnations? Or instead of a fancy silver menorah, we use a simpler plain one and take the money we would have spent and give it to tzedaka?
The WolfFebruary 4, 2011 4:43 pm at 4:43 pm #737348WolfishMusingsParticipant
Lastly, I don’t know what this entire thread has to do with advertising. If you don’t like people spending opulently, that’s one thing, but it’s a lifestyle issue, not an advertising one. People who are going to overspend will do so — advertising or no.
The WolfFebruary 4, 2011 8:02 pm at 8:02 pm #737349
Wolf, you’re being disingenuous. There is a difference between spending like a prince and being a prince (or princess). There is that old-fashioned happy medium, the shvil hazahav. Not a miser, and not a spendthrift.
There are luxuries and then there are luxuries. A hidur mitzvah is not the same as extravagance. Enjoying your hard-earned money is not the same as throwing it in other people’s faces to get some kavod – or to prove to yourself that you “deserve the best” when you maybe feel a little doubtful about yourself.
Moderation, common sense, all those old-fashioned midos/virtues….February 4, 2011 8:15 pm at 8:15 pm #737350Sender AvMember
mbachur, I disagree. I grew up going on Pesach retreats because the “tradition” was started by my mother A’H who felt it to hard to clean for Pesach considering my father had a food business out of our home. We continued to go on these programs after she was niftar and my grandmother A’H would help pay(because she also liked to go)…and let me just say that if Hashem wants you to feel like a slave on Pesach, you will. Two years ago in Palm Springs my grandmother, A’H became ill and made the experience very difficult, so while we were away physically from home, we still had a hard time.February 4, 2011 8:19 pm at 8:19 pm #737351
“Enjoying your hard-earned money is not the same as throwing it in other people’s faces to get some kavod – or to prove to yourself that you “deserve the best” when you maybe feel a little doubtful about yourself.”
I had won a 5 dy/4 nite stay @ a 2 wk. kosher program @ a resort in Colorado. we had wanted to extend our stay, but found the cost too high for our wallets. the program was quite full & no one I saw there had any sort of attitude of “better than thou'”… they were all just really nice frum people, all different types of Jews. and I KNOW how costly the program was! (and please don’t say that maybe all the other guests had also won their stay.)February 4, 2011 10:42 pm at 10:42 pm #737352
One can also argue that why do yeshiva buildings and shuls have to be built so fancy these days when yeshivas are faltering and so many kids are kicked out because of lack of funds to pay tuition. Why not refrain from all the brass, marble, glass and granite and use that money for tuition and paying the Rabbonim? That argument is just as valid? Yes we are supposed to make our makom kedoshim mehudar but not at the expense of not paying the Rabbonim that work there!!!!
Do you see how any argument can be made if you choose to??????February 6, 2011 1:07 am at 1:07 am #737353real-briskerMember
aries – I actually know a shul in monsey – Rav Schlessinger shul that costed well over 7 million dollars, and the rov was totaly behind it, he brought down from seforim, thay a shul is supposed to be the nicest building in the city. Also he said that its a bizayon if the the Baal Habatim that daven there, if their houses would be nicer then shul.
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