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  • #618149

    kaganys
    Member

    As everyone knows we have a very big problem; Hillary who’s worse than trump is running for for president and there are a lot of “frum” people are voting for her. Now, I would like to ask you readers what’s better trump who’s an idiot but may possibly do something for our country or Hillary who’s definitely not gonna do anything good and is also gonna destroy America??? So all those “frum” people voting for Hillary, think twice before you do stupid things and vote for stupid people!!!!!!!!

    #1179391

    Sparkly
    Member

    kaganys – i agree:) and i am a frum person trying to get others to vote for trump got a strong hillary voter to not vote for anyone b’h.

    #1179392

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    As everyone knows we have a very big problem; Hillary who’s worse than trump is running for for president and there are a lot of “frum” people are voting for her. Now, I would like to ask you readers what’s better trump who’s an idiot but may possibly do something for our country or Hillary who’s definitely not gonna do anything good and is also gonna destroy America??? So all those “frum” people voting for Hillary, think twice before you do stupid things and vote for stupid people!!!!!!!!

    Yawn. Another political screed, devoid of facts, reasoning or anything of substance.

    When you come back, how about giving us concrete reasons, backed up by actual evidence, as to why we should vote for your Trump*?

    The Wolf

    * (And yes, the same request applies to you Clinton, Johnson, Stein or whoever else supporters.)

    #1179393

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Oh, and by the way, I must say that saying “Yemach Sh’mam” about anyone just for their choice of candidate is odious and offensive.

    I guess the prohibition against cursing other Jews has been repealed. I’ll go strike that pasuk out of my Chumash.

    The Wolf

    #1179394

    Joseph
    Participant

    Wolf, in fairness, the OP called her yms, not the people voting for her.

    #1179395

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Thank you, Mods, for changing the title. For what it’s worth, I think Chas V’Shalom is also too strong, but at least it’s not an actual curse aimed at a person.

    The Wolf

    #1179396

    As if posting this here will change the out come of the election…sigh

    Dude ever heard other #electoralcollege

    #1179397

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    OP called her yms, not the people voting for her.

    No, you’re wrong. The OP did not use the singular (sh’mo or, more properly, sh’mah), but the plural.

    The Wolf

    #1179400

    kaganys
    Member

    wolf- you are wrong i started the topic and i only meant hillary, not the people voting for her

    #1179401

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    wolf- you are wrong i started the topic and i only meant hillary, not the people voting for her

    Then why did you use the plural?

    The Wolf

    #1179402

    gofish
    Member

    If I would be in a swing state, I would definitely be voting for Hillary.

    And putting my frumkeit in mocking quotes based on voting choices is disrespectful.

    Personally, I think anyone voting for Trump is either very gullible or an idiot. And I don’t understand how Jewish people who have gone through so much persecution the past few thousand years can even think about voting for an egomaniac with sociopath tendencies and many red flags of a potential fascist leader.

    But I’m not going around casting aspersions on anyone’s religious status based on which candidate they’re voting for. That’s just ridiculous.

    #1179403

    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    #1179405

    kaganys
    Member

    Wolf-was a mistake Meant singular

    #1179406

    kaganys
    Member

    Gofish- As if Hillary is any better????????????????

    #1179407

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Wolf-was a mistake Meant singular

    I find that somewhat difficult to believe.

    You see, if you substituted the masculine for the feminine, I could see that (since the masculine is used far more than the feminine is). The plural, however, is rarely used (pretty much never except in reference to Nazis as a group).

    But fine, whatever…

    The Wolf

    #1179408

    Sparkly
    Member

    kaganys – trump is good for jews.

    #1179409

    gofish
    Member

    Hillary is not an ideal candidate by a long shot. She is not a saint and I don’t love all her views.

    But yes, she is qualified, has experience, and is not a dangerously unstable person like Trump who has not a shred of diplomacy or political experience.

    I can write an entire discourse on my reasoning and back it up with facts and analysis. Yet honestly I am thoroughly sick of this entire election and therefore will probably not engage in this thread any longer. I was just bothered by the OP putting frum in quotes and mocking people’s religiosity based on voting choices.

    zehu.

    #1179410

    kaganys
    Member

    Sparkly-yes

    #1179411

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Hillary has always stood with Israel. I don’t agree with that, so I’m not voting for her.

    #1179412

    Joseph
    Participant

    Hillary is neither qualified nor experienced to be president.

    #1179413

    wolf

    you asked for proof of corrupt hillarys corruption & lying, you got it

    1)the entire country knows about her emails & lies is that enough to prove it or do you want to search on youtube “hillary lies or hillary email corruption” & tell me how many thousands of videos come up

    2)trump might not be the best either but hes definitely better then a corrupt liar hillary

    3)she will never get arrested but thats because of her high level of power & just shows you how corrupt the democratic government is.

    4)if she C”V BECOMES PRESIDENT she will be worse then obama & we all already know how bad he has been doing 8 years of sleep golfing & only doing damage to the country. how many good things can you list me obama has done in all his years as president? can you tell us maybe EVEN ONE?

    HOPE YOU WAKE UP & MAKE THE RIGHT VOTING DECISION

    #1179414

    kaganys
    Member

    Gofish- Hillary is a liar and a corrupt person and she hates Israel and besides trump is good for the jews

    #1179416

    Sparkly
    Member

    kaganys – 100% agree.

    -Sparkly with glitters and glue

    #1179417

    kaganys
    Member

    Gofish- u have anything to say?

    #1179418

    kaganys
    Member

    Gofish- the reason I put frum in quotes is because in a dif topic they put frum in quotes and I like the idea and here it’s more applicable because if u vote for Hillary it shows u don’t care about other FRUM JEWS!!!!!!!!

    #1179419

    gofish
    Member

    Plenty.

    Yet as I said before, I will abstain.

    I will share that I find it incredibly amusing that you are calling Hillary a liar and corrupt and supporting Trump, who has consistently lied through his teeth way more times, and runs his businesses in the most corrupt ways possible. Do your research on his business tactics and how he routinely caused small business owners to go bankrupt due to dishonesty and ruthless misleading.

    That is all I care to say, though there is plenty more. Like I said, I have really had enough of political talk this election.

    Good night.

    #1179420

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Why is it better to vote for Hillary’s biggest fan?

    #1179421

    Sam2
    Participant

    I find it absolutely hilarious that so many Trump supporters critique Hillary for being a “liar”. Look, there are lots of reasons to think she’s bad. And thinking that she would be worse than Trump isn’t crazy (even though I disagree with it). But a liar? Trump has barely been on the political scene for a year and he has already told more lies than any candidate or president in recent history, possibly even ever. The man just has no regard for the truth. He lies about anything and everything if it sounds good. Criticizing Hillary for her server, her emails, her getting money from groups in foreign nations, etc. makes sense. I get it. Calling her a liar? If you live in a glass house, don’t launch a catapult.

    #1179422

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Different types of lies. I don’t know which is worse, but I don’t blame anyone for thinking either is.

    #1179423

    takahmamash
    Participant

    I’m not voting at all. Each time I think they’ve both hit rock bottom, one of them goes and lowers the bar even further.

    #1179424

    simcha613
    Participant

    I go back and forth and which one is the lesser of two evils… right now I’m thinking Hillary is the lesser of 2 evils (in terms of being president). I mean,I think Hillary is a worse person (if I can actually judge a person by what I read about them in the newspapers like about the crimes she allegedly committed and tried to cover up)… but that doesn’t mean she’ll make a worse president. I would like to think I’m a better person than either Trump or Hillary but I would make an awful president.

    Hillary has her party behind her. She has some of the Republicans behind her. She has more experience in politics in general and in the White House. She has better diplomacy skills. She has stronger connections to others in the political world. She has a much more presidential personality (at least from what we see in public). Trump will isolate congress and the rest of the world with his big mouth. His personality is horrible for someone who is president. I also think Hillary will enjoy more bipartisan support than President Obama did because many Republicans refuse to support Trump, so they wouldn’t hold that against her necessarily.

    The only thing I will say positively about Trump is that his and his party’s platform towards Israel is better than Hillary and the Democrats, which would be the only reason I would consider voting for him (especially because I live in Israel). But I don’t think he would make a better president.

    #1179425

    moi aussi
    Member

    As both the Donald and Hilary are despised, what would happen if nobody would go to the votes? If zero people would appear at the voting boots, who would be president?

    #1179426

    TheGoq
    Participant

    So you think a cogent argument to get people to switch from HRC to Trump is to insult them hmmm interesting.

    #1179427

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    kaganas………..

    I find your OP offensive and condescending.

    I find nothing unfortunate about my support for and intention to vote for Secretary Clinton to be the next President of the US.

    I am a Democrat

    I am an elected member of local government

    I am on my municipality’s Democratic Town Committee (in CT that also means city)

    I am a State delegate.

    I think Trump acts like a buffoon and brings down the image of America all over the world. He is a failed businessman, who stiffs working people. He is an adulterer who is thrice married and I don’t want Melania living in the White House. He does not understand foreign policy, he cannot get along with others. His ‘my way or the highway’ attitude will not work in government, we don’t need a dictator.

    I have known both Clintons since they were in Law School at Yale more than 45 years ago. They have amazing intellect, are able to work well with those across the aisle and fell she will continue the nation’s rebuilding from the GW Bush recession/depression of 2007/8.

    I have had the misfortune of business dealings with Donald Trump. He tried to buy some properties owned by a trust I administer years ago. His word was not reliable and we walked away.

    I personally would pay more taxes under a Clinton administration that under plans proposed by Trump. BUT it is not all about me. It is what is best for America and its citizens in the long run.

    Trump attracts haters and that is not good for the Jews. This weekend he held a rally within 15 minutes of my home. He attracted white supremacist supporters holding banners stating “Diversity = White Genocide” We as Jews know far too well about genocide (that rally was actually on the 9th of Av). We are a minority that has benefited from the protections of liberal Supreme Court decisions in the application of the Bill of Rights. Mr. Trump wants to build a wall to keep people out. Don’t forget that wall will also keep people in…if you know your history the name for the enclosure is GHETTO.

    My family arrived in the USA in 1868. We have fought hard (yes including in the US army in the Spanish American War, World Wars 1&2, Korea and Viet Nam)and domestically to attain social equality, the civil rights act that lets you live where you choose, not be denied employment because of religious beliefs, get prayer out of public schools, etc.

    Trump’s policies and beliefs will set us back 100+ years. Don’t sell out for the perceived ‘make us great again’ nonsense. America is Great. We don’t need a return to the 1950s when most of us would not be welcome in most of America.

    #1179428

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Yawn,

    Wake me up in 100 days

    #1179429

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    1)the entire country knows about her emails & lies is that enough to prove it or do you want to search on youtube “hillary lies or hillary email corruption” & tell me how many thousands of videos come up

    I don’t watch political YouTube videos. It’s bad enough I have enough shrill partisans yelling at me in text. I don’t need it in video either. Besides, the vast majority of them are like the OP… full of sound and fury, but largely opinion.

    As for Hillary Clinton’s email woes, there may be the possibility that she did something wrong there… but the error seems to be one of judgement rather than one of malfeasance. In other words, she should have been using the more secure system. But we’ve all made errors in judgement, even fairly big ones. If that’s the bar, then no one should be president. Granted, it’s a point against her, but that alone certainly should not disqualify her.

    2)trump might not be the best either but hes definitely better then a corrupt liar hillary

    Opinion, devoid of any actual evidence.

    3)she will never get arrested but thats because of her high level of power & just shows you how corrupt the democratic government is.

    Conspiracy mongering and opinion, devoid of any actual evidence.

    4)if she C”V BECOMES PRESIDENT she will be worse then obama

    Opinion, devoid of any actual evidence.

    & we all already know how bad he has been doing 8 years of sleep golfing & only doing damage to the country. how many good things can you list me obama has done in all his years as president? can you tell us maybe EVEN ONE??

    Irrelevant, because Obama is not running and the election is not about him. Whether he was the best president ever, the worst ever or somewhere in-between, it doesn’t matter. It’s not about him, it’s about Hillary Clinton.

    The Wolf

    #1179430

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    As both the Donald and Hilary are despised, what would happen if nobody would go to the votes? If zero people would appear at the voting boots, who would be president?

    If no one in any state votes (as unlikely as that is), then it would fall to the state’s legislature to assign the Electoral Votes for that state.

    The Wolf

    #1179431

    NeutiquamErro
    Participant

    There is a more general problem about the frum community in America that this thread exposes. Namely, that many of them confuse politics with religion. I’ll explain.

    Basically, the Republicans’ general political stance tallies reasonably closely with a frum viewpoint. For example, they support traditional, conservative moral values, they support Israel, and they tend to appeal to middle-class, higher-income voters, a bracket many frum yidden fall into.

    Therefore, for a frum yid in America, supporting the GOP, and the more right wing of the party in particular, can feel very natural. And this obvious preference is clearly expressed in the frum media, on websites such as this one, and generally across the board. And this is understandable and usually correct. And due to this alliance, they tend to express solidarity with the party on most issues, including the ones that have little to do with being frum and more to do with being a Republican.

    This can mean, in my experience, that they often take the bathwater with the baby, as it were. So you’ll find otherwise sensible people being outright fanatical about issues such as gun control and Obamacare, to pick two excellent examples. And this reflects itself in the way some demonize Clinton whilst ignoring, or downplaying, the obvious foibles of the Donald. And indeed, demonizing the Democrats in general and being far too fawning when it comes to the Republicans. And this blind partisanship can be very confusing to someone used to a more nuanced, and rather critical, view of politics.

    #1179432

    yehudayona
    Participant

    It’s interesting that the change in the topic’s title isn’t reflected in the URL, which still uses the original phrase.

    #1179433

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    I have to agree with CTLawyer. As much as I may not like Mrs. Clinton’s positions on many issues, she is smart, extremely qualified, and has reached across the aisle in the past.

    Mr. Trump is dangerous, not only to the United States but to the world at large. If Putin insults Trump, will Trump start a war? I wouldn’t put it past someone like Trump. Trump will solidify the idea of treating people differently based on their religion or ethnicity. He has no concrete plan for any issue, believe me 🙂

    To paraphrase…..

    Because I was not a Muslim.

    And the next group they always come for are the Jews.

    #NeverTrump

    #1179434

    huju
    Participant

    To the opening poster: You have a short memory. When Barack Obama was running for president in 2008, many posters on YWN (and others in the rest of America) warned us that he was determined to destroy America, or too incompetent not to destroy America. When America was still standing in 2012, those same warnings were repeated. And here it is, 2016, America is still standing, and some people, including you, are making the same unfounded warnings we heard in 2008 and 2012.

    There is a lot I do not like about Hillary Clinton, but she is a far better candidate than that spoiled child who got the Republican nomination. So, please, when 2020 rolls around, please remember what you warned us in 2016, and ask yourself how wrong you were.

    #1179435

    Joseph
    Participant

    There is no doubt that Obama seriously damaged America (moral affairs, health care, etc.) and seriously damaged the international stage (Syria, Iraq, etc.) Clinton will be a continuation and furtherance of Obama’s damaging policies and activities. Trump is very bad but Clinton is likely far worse.

    NeutiquamErro: Excellent post. I would note, though, your comment applies mostly to large parts of the hamon hoam but not to the practices of the gedolei rabbonim. You’ll surely note that organizations with rabbinical leadership, including Agudah, OU, UJO, etc., are non-partisan and interact successfully and productively with politicians and candidates from both parties.

    #1179436

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “There is no doubt that Obama seriously damaged America (moral affairs, health care, etc.) and seriously damaged the international stage (Syria, Iraq, etc.)”

    I completely doubt that.

    moral affairs is the natural progression of the way things have been for several decades. Did George W damage “moral affairs”?

    When he started 0 states allowed “toeiva marriage” during his presidency two staes allowed it.

    As for healthcare

    how many people have you met who didnt have health insurance before Obama and have now?

    How many have you met who had insurance then and lost now?

    Granted some may be paying more, and it is far from perfect,

    But I have met >100 people who never had insurance before and have now. I have never met someone who had and now doesnt.

    If Hiallry will be a furtherance and continuation, then that is yet another reason to vote for her.

    Though voting against Trump remains my primary reason

    Nequateim

    That sint just a problem in frum community. It is a natural outcome of the two party system, where people side with one party and for whatever reason seem to identify with it fully.

    #1179437

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Trump says Hillary Clinton is corrupt and crooked to the point of being dangerous. If that is so, why did he donate to her campaigns in the past?

    #1179438

    NeutiquamErro
    Participant

    Ubiquitin: You may have a point, but there’s a two party system in other places, such as the UK (in practice, at least), and although frum yidden also often identify more strongly with one party than another, they still retain a healthy skepticism, and tend to vote based on a nuanced view of the various policies than simple partisanship.

    And that means that on issues that are dissociated from religion, such as gun control, people do not blindly follow ‘their’ party. And the party never takes their support for granted, which means they serve their interests better. Basically, I expect frum yidden to be less misguided and more sensible in their political ideals than simple blind partisanship, as is the case elsewhere, but perhaps I am simply giving them too much credit.

    Joseph: I appreciate your approval. And you are absolutely right. The frum interest groups and NGOs generally do an excellent job of working in a non-partisan fashion.

    #1179439

    Health
    Participant

    CTlawyer -“not be denied employment because of religious beliefs,”

    What a horrible lie! I know for a fact that they discriminate against Shomer Shabbos workers!

    It was better when they didn’t have all those laws to protect Frum Jews. Now the law is a big joke!

    #1179440

    Health
    Participant

    Joe -“There is no doubt that Obama seriously damaged America (moral affairs, health care, etc.)”

    That’s all you can think of?!? How about all the terrorist attacks during Obama’s term? How about all the illegal Mexicans that live here?

    Right now on my block in Lakewood, there only Mexicans, no Jews yet!

    All Hillary will do is make it even worse!

    #1179442

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    Health……..

    Who is “they”

    The law requires reasonable accommodation for religious beliefs/practices. It does not mandate accommodation in all cases.

    I remember applying to college and being told the Jew quota was closed. Now the discrimination (if it exists) is not blatant and open.

    #1179443

    dbrim
    Participant

    I disagree that frum Yidden confuse politics with religion – I think we’re a bit savvier than that. Imagine – some of us are not voting for Clinton, not because she’s a democrat but because she is an evil corrupt criminal. More importantly, the evidence from the personal lives of our two candidates indicates that Clinton is the bigger anti-semite. I have repeatedly posted asking about the fact that she kissed Arafat’s wife, and about the fact that she refused to enter the home where a menorah was prominently displayed because she saw it as a symbolic affront to the Palestinian cause (these events are documented) – I’m still waiting to hear a counter argument – Any takers, Clinton supporters?

    I can’t fathom why anyone would vote a blatant anti-israel anti-semite.

    Yes, we all agree – they are both corrupt liars – isn’t that the definition of “politician”? Trump’s immorality doesn’t hold a candle to the the Clinton sordid affairs – doesn’t anyone remember Monica, the perjury, the filth that was on public display?

    As far as Trump’s policies regarding refugees – he may be extreme but he’s not off the mark – and he is not going after Jews next – that’s silly – he is completely correct about the dangers involved with islam and islamic immigration – wake up – see what’s going on in Europe, and in the US as well. You are all infidels and many moslems follow their Koran pretty literally. We need a president call radical islam by its name and who will protect the people despite the politically correct climate we live in.

    #1179444

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    I disagree that frum Yidden confuse politics with religion – I think we’re a bit savvier than that. Imagine – some of us are not voting for Clinton, not because she’s a democrat”

    I dont think that is what nequateim meant.

    ” I have repeatedly posted asking about the fact that she kissed Arafat’s wife,”

    what does that prove? Isnt kissing your hostess the polite thing to do? She claims the translator mistranslated whatshua arafat said

    ” and about the fact that she refused to enter the home where a menorah was prominently displayed because she saw it as a symbolic affront to the Palestinian cause (these events are documented)”

    i’m not familiar witht he second.

    – I’m still waiting to hear a counter argument – Any takers, Clinton supporters?

    I can’t fathom why anyone would vote a blatant anti-israel anti-semite

    for several reasons:

    1) She has a strong record on supporting Israel, one longer than the two anti-semitic incidents you list

    2) Even if she was anti-Israel, it wont affect Israel as much as a Trump presidency will affect America and the world. In other words, even if that was a strike against her the plusses outweigh that

    “Yes, we all agree – they are both corrupt liars – isn’t that the definition of “politician”? “

    Yes but Trump is a much bigger liar, even when he doesnt need to be. He lies for the sake of lying

    “Trump’s immorality doesn’t hold a candle to the the Clinton sordid affairs – doesn’t anyone remember Monica, the perjury, the filth that was on public display?”

    filth on public display??? are you kidding? Do you know what magazines Trump has been prominetly featured in ? Do you know what he has said about women? Cmon try to be fact based. when supporting Trump you cant claim the moral high ground

    Oh and never mind the Mayor’s inner circle press roast from 2000.

    ” We need a president call radical islam by its name”

    why, explain why that is so important?

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