April 7, 2013 10:05 pm at 10:05 pm #608892
Shabbossim are very long nowadays. Are there any really good games out there for teens and adults?April 7, 2013 11:39 pm at 11:39 pm #1191247WolfishMusingsParticipant
Tell us what types of games you currently enjoy (for during the week or Shabbos) and then we can make recommendations of similar games.
The WolfApril 7, 2013 11:55 pm at 11:55 pm #1191248
I don’t want something similar, I want something different.April 8, 2013 12:06 am at 12:06 am #1191249Torah613TorahParticipant
Tap Tap TrioApril 8, 2013 12:06 am at 12:06 am #1191250
Apples to Apples
any sort of card game (President, Kent, Mao, poker)
Settlers of Catan
CarcassonneApril 8, 2013 12:07 am at 12:07 am #1191251
Wolf, I thought you would point out that Shabbos in the spring is the same length as in the fall.
Talmud, how about chess?April 8, 2013 12:09 am at 12:09 am #1191252
Any game which normally entails writing (e.g. Scrabble) might be problematic; ask a shailah.April 8, 2013 12:17 am at 12:17 am #1191253WolfishMusingsParticipant
I don’t want something similar, I want something different.
Fair enough. What type of game do you want? A long German-style strategy game that will keep you engrossed for two hours? A fun, breezy, light game? How many players?
In other words, there are lots of different types of games. Help us out a bit so that we’re not just tossing random game names at you.
The WolfApril 8, 2013 12:19 am at 12:19 am #1191254
DY: Most Poskim are Mattir Scrabble and Bananagrams. The real Shaila is the Scrabble board with the individual holders for letters on the board (one of the old Deluxe Editions). Rav Moshe said that that one is Assur.
I personally hold that the new edition of Settlers with the puzzle border is an Issur D’Oraisa of K’siva.April 8, 2013 12:32 am at 12:32 am #1191255sam4321Participant
Sam2: can you be more specific which settlers edition and what the problem is?April 8, 2013 12:34 am at 12:34 am #1191256neeneeMember
Backgammon and let’s not forget about PARCHESI.April 8, 2013 12:54 am at 12:54 am #1191257
Sam4: The current edition because the border is made of 6 interlocking pieces that are numbered and you put them together by matching the numbers together. That seems to me to be exactly what K’siva was in the Mishkan, though I can definitely hear the claim that it’s not a problem because it’s not made to last at all.
OOM: How did I miss this the first time? Where do you know Quelf from?? That game is amazing. I thought my friend was the only person on Earth who actually owns it. We only played a few times, but it was awesome.April 8, 2013 1:02 am at 1:02 am #1191258
Sam2, in the Mishkan they actually wrote.April 8, 2013 1:21 am at 1:21 am #1191259
DY: Are you sure? I thought it was putting the planks next to each other so their numbers lined up.April 8, 2013 1:33 am at 1:33 am #1191260akupermaParticipant
Chess has a long and venerable tradition among frum Jews. Even a Rishon wrote about it. Of course, you can’t play with an electronic clock or record moves, but that only affects official tournaments.April 8, 2013 1:59 am at 1:59 am #1191261sam4321Participant
Sam2:Aren’t the pieces placed randomly before each game?April 8, 2013 2:00 am at 2:00 am #1191262LogicianParticipant
Now I’m intrigued. What’s Quelf ?April 8, 2013 2:06 am at 2:06 am #1191263BYbychoiceMember
uno,risk,monopoly,phase 10, freeze and justify,double green glass doors,patternsApril 8, 2013 2:17 am at 2:17 am #1191264
Sam4: That’s the original one, that used blue hexes as the border. The new version has 6 puzzle pieces that make up the border, each of them with a number on each end. You line up the numbers to create the border.April 8, 2013 2:28 am at 2:28 am #1191265
Sam2-who is matir scrabble? The Chachamim made a gezeira that you can’t do things that normally involve writing because it may lead to writing. In regular scrabble, you record the score. It’s assur miderabanon. In Scrabble, the pieces interlock, it’s really writing and it’s assur mideoraisa.
I would recommend to play on shabbos
risk- but that can get boring after awhile.
chess-some poskim say if you will have agmas nefesh if you lose, you shouldn’t play.
Quick Shtick (I don’t know if this game is around anymore.)
Outburst (I’m not sure if that can be played on shabbos, but I think it’s fine)
MalarkyApril 8, 2013 2:34 am at 2:34 am #1191266
Here are some more:
FLUXX! (Can’t believe I forgot this one on the first time around–this is my favorite game!)
Sam2: lol, also through a friend. Though I have other friends that own it too. It is a very good game, one of my favorites. And if you like Quelf, you should definitely try Fluxx. ^_^
Also, when we play Settlers on Shabbos/YT we don’t use the puzzle border, and we space out the board tiles. The game comes with little replacement harbor tiles to use instead of the border.April 8, 2013 2:51 am at 2:51 am #1191267
OOM: Fluxx is also a family favorite. Way ahead of you there.
Yeshivaguy: Rav Moshe, I believe, (in the 8th Chelek, for whatever that’s worth to you) says that it’s okay if they’re not interlocking. I feel like the Shmiras Shabbos is Mattir also. And you make an interesting point. Then again, I never used to write down the score when I would play. We’d either just remember or put a placemark in a dictionary on the page number.April 8, 2013 3:14 am at 3:14 am #1191268
Sam2, no, I’m not sure. I’ll try to look it up.April 8, 2013 3:28 am at 3:28 am #1191269
Sam2: aw, I love proselytizing for the cause. 😛 Have you ever tried the Zombie version?
Logician: It’s The Board Game of Randomness. (Fluxx is The Card Game of Randomness.)April 8, 2013 4:25 am at 4:25 am #1191270
Sam2, the Gemara (103b) indicates that they wrote or engraved.
Chayei Adam (38-11) assers games which normally involve writing.April 8, 2013 4:32 am at 4:32 am #1191271
OOM: Yep. They updated the standard version a year or two ago. I don’t like it nearly as much as the original original version.
Are you familiar with the card game Munchkin, by any chance? I have a feeling you would quite enjoy it.April 8, 2013 4:42 am at 4:42 am #1191272SaysMeMember
munchkin cards are YUCK!
OOM and Sam2, ur listing all my bro’s faves.
No one mentioned Quirkle yet- that’s funApril 8, 2013 4:54 am at 4:54 am #1191273
Sam2: Yeah, I have the updated standard version. It doesn’t incorporate all the zombie elements, though.
And I can’t believe I’ve never heard of Munchkin (just googled it)–it is definitely up my (and my family’s) alley! I have some older brothers who were big DnD fans back in the day. 🙂
SaysMe: ^_^April 8, 2013 5:11 am at 5:11 am #1191274
The wolf- I’m looking for more like a 2 hour good strategy game. But not overly confusing. (What does German have to do with strategy). But if I have a couple of shorter fun games, that’s good too. 2/3 people.
Oneofmany- Thanx I’ll look into those. But what is quelf and flux about (and the eybrows (^_^)
Sam2, I hold like that also as long as scrabble is not made with insets. But I don’t see why Settlers is different from a puzzle you will take apart before Shabbos is over. and what is Munchkin?
Yeshivaguy45- I think Shmiras Shabbos is Matir Scrabble w/o insets. Also, where did you hear that if you feel bad that you lost, you shouldn’t play? (I’m asking regarding my opponent, of course)
Yiddishemaidel- will look into those. thanx
Saysyou- What is quirk about?April 8, 2013 3:14 pm at 3:14 pm #1191275
talmud- it’s in R’ Dovid Ribiat’s sefer Sefer Lamed Tes Melachos The 39 Melachos Vol. 4 page 978. On pages 954-955, he also writes about scrabble if you want to look it up.April 8, 2013 3:33 pm at 3:33 pm #1191276gavra_at_workParticipant
Sam2: Yes, I’m sure that was not the Kesiva that is Assur on Shabbos. The writing is Kesiva, matching up numbers is not.
Interestingly, I remember learning that one can use magnetic letters ON SHABBOS to “write” a message, since there is no actual Ma’ase Kesiva being done. (Of course, this assumes you are not machmir like the YU shitta not to use magnets on shabbos. Even if you are, you can “precut” letters before shabbos and use those.)
I know it sounds strange, and I don’t have the source off the top of my head, but I certainly remember learning it.April 8, 2013 3:44 pm at 3:44 pm #1191277DaMosheParticipant
Sam2: I’m a fan of Munchkin! I played a great game of Star Munchkin this past Shabbos with a few friends.April 8, 2013 4:17 pm at 4:17 pm #1191278charliehallParticipant
“In regular scrabble, you record the score. It’s assur miderabanon. In Scrabble, the pieces interlock, it’s really writing and it’s assur mideoraisa.”
False on all three. My wife and I play Scrabble regularly. We don’t record the score; we keep track using bookmarks in books, so nothing is getting recorded at all. And as anyone who has ever played Scrabble knows, the pieces do NOT interlock. In some of the more deluxe editions of Scrabble the boards do have squares with raised edges to hold the pieces which as noted above does cause halachic concerns; we just use the old flat cardboard playing board that causes no concern.April 8, 2013 4:18 pm at 4:18 pm #1191279charliehallParticipant
Furthermore, there are opinions (I don’t have the source in front of me, but I think the Rema holds this way — can anyone confirm) that the d’oraita of writing is only in Hebrew, in the usual manner with a pen. While I have played Hebrew Scrabble (and also Spanish Scrabble) I’ve only played US English Scrabble on Shabat.April 8, 2013 5:50 pm at 5:50 pm #1191280
charliehall, In the rules of scrabble it says that you write to record the score. It may even come with a pad of scorecard sheets. If you usually use that to record the score then it would be assur miderabanon. If you normally don’t, then I think it’s muttar, but I could be wrong. There’s an Israeli version of scrabble, it’s called Blanko, I think there’s a different way how to record the score there. In deluxe scrabble, there are places where the blocks are held in place. The poskim as Sam2 mentioned say that’s forming a word and it’s assur mideoraisa. I don’t remeber the Rema offhand, but the gemaras in shabbos and gittin discusses whether you’d be chayiv m’deoraisa for writing two letters. That doesn’t matter English, Hebrew or any language. In any case the Rabbonon assur’d even one letter.April 8, 2013 6:38 pm at 6:38 pm #1191281mik5Participant
You should ideally NOT play scrabble on Shabbos. (Just google “playing scrabble on Shabbos.”)
Chazal made a decree prohibiting the playing of games where writing is part of its regular activity [Chayei Adam 38:11; see, however, Bris Olom Kosev 13 page 45 who does not know where the Chayei Adam got this from). Therefore, one may not play Scrabble or any other game where people usually keep score. [Refer to Tiltulei Shabbos page 25 footnote 24, Igros Moshe O.C. 5:22:14.] Poskim permit playing chess on Shabbos even though some people write down their moves. This is permitted because most people do not write down their moves.
If the game involves placing the pieces in a frame to hold them together then it would be forbidden to play with
one does not place the pieces in a frame to hold them in place.
Tiltulei Shabbos page 25, Nishmas Shabbos 6:419.]
[Shalmei Yehuda 5:footnote 5.]
Rabbi Pinchas Scheinberg zatzal permitted playing Scrabble on Shabbos as long as you are EXTREMELEY careful not to c”v write down the score.
In truth, however, you should spend the Shabbos LEARNING TORAH!April 8, 2013 8:09 pm at 8:09 pm #1191282Yserbius123Participant
There a quite a few very good board games out there that aren’t well known in mainstream communities. Check out the “Strategy Games” section in Barnes and Noble. I play Carcassonne with my wife on long Shabbos evenings. There are others out there that I haven’t necessarily played. Most of these games take no longer than an hour.
April 8, 2013 10:39 pm at 10:39 pm #1191283
- Ticket to Ride: Build train tracks across the US. Very easy to learn and a lot of fun to play.
- Agricola: Every player plays a family of farmers. Every turn you need to ensure that your crops and animals are being tended to, structures are being built and everyone gets fed.
- Alhambra: Compete against the other players to get your palace built bigger than theirs.
- 7 Wonders: Card game involving players collecting cards and using their effects to collect more cards, resources or points in order to build your medieval empire
- Race for the Galaxy: Similar in description to 7 Wonders but with an outer space theme but plays like a different game
- Dominion: Same idea again. Also a vastly different beast
- Kingdom Builder: Players need to build villages by placing houses on a map of a kingdom. The fun part is that how the game is scored, what the map looks like and what special powers there are is basically randomized via picking cards in the beginning.
- Pandemic: Fun co-operative game where everyone needs to work together to stop diseases from spreading across the world. Each player has special abilities that they can use to help one another.
- Small World: Kind of like Risk where each army has different abilities and fights are determined more by strengths than die rolls so there is less of a luck factor.
wow thanxApril 8, 2013 11:26 pm at 11:26 pm #1191284
Charlie: That is a Rama in the Siman of Amirah L’akum, I think, and no one (and I mean no one) even thinks to hold of it. (Though the Mishnah B’rurah does have a Chumra in the Be’ur Halachah in Siman 65 that seems to be based on the same basic idea as this Shittah of the Rama.)May 18, 2014 12:11 pm at 12:11 pm #1191285A nony mouseParticipant
Are you allowed to do a puzzle on shabbos?May 18, 2014 2:06 pm at 2:06 pm #1191286
I never asked a shailah about puzzles, because I personally wouldn’t do one on Shabbos. It is mamesh creating something, and the intent is typically to keep it permanent, once completed. If it is permissible (and I would find that to be odd), I still wouldn’t do it.
Trivial Pursuit is my game of choice, and also games like Blurt, Taboo, or any game where you have to think of ways of expressing something without using specific common words. Charades is also a great choice.May 18, 2014 2:19 pm at 2:19 pm #1191287DaMosheParticipant
oomis: If it’s allowed, why would you not do it? Assuring something for yourself which is allowed is actually not permitted!May 18, 2014 2:24 pm at 2:24 pm #1191288
I know puzzles is a shaila and we were told we could do the ones that are not interlocking. We probably spent more shabbosim doing puzzles than we did playing risk and spoons!
Seriously though, I could never understand the concept of keeping a puzzle once it’s done. What could you possibly do with it? Hang it on the wall next to the bar mitzvah pictures?May 18, 2014 3:16 pm at 3:16 pm #1191289
Interlocking puzzles are assur according to some poskim because of koseiv.May 18, 2014 5:50 pm at 5:50 pm #1191290
Seriously though, I could never understand the concept of keeping a puzzle once it’s done. What could you possibly do with it? Hang it on the wall next to the bar mitzvah pictures?”
You are clearly not a serious “puzzler.” I am not, either, but my friend who routinely does 1,000 – 1,500 piece puzzles, likes to put a certain type of clear puzzle glue on them to keep them intact and then frames them. So, yes, they DO hang it on the wall (whether next to the Bar-mitzvah pic or not).May 18, 2014 5:57 pm at 5:57 pm #1191291
oomis: If it’s allowed, why would you not do it? Assuring something for yourself which is allowed is actually not permitted!”
Not in this case, and some people asser things for themselves that are permitted, ALL the time, like wearing colorful clothing, using chalav stam, wearing a shaitel instead of a tichel, eating gebrochts, etc. I feel it’s not in the spirit of Shabbos to make a creative piece of art, even if technically it were to be considered muttar (though I cannot imagine it to be).
I have heard it is allowed for small children to ride their tricycles on Shabbos. To me, that is uvda d’chol, even if technically permitted (and all the Yeshivish families on my block allow their kids to do so and to use scooters, something I NEVER permitted my kids to do on Shabbos, for chinuch reasons alone).
So my answer to your otherwise well-noted point, is that something being permissible, does not necessarily mean it is a good thing to do.May 18, 2014 7:20 pm at 7:20 pm #1191292
(though I cannot imagine it to be)
even after mentioning my rav said it was?
I do happen to be a serious puzzler, but that includes considering the puzzle to be finished when the last piece is placed. It then goes back in the box for the next time. I’ve seen people save them but I cannot imagine why.May 18, 2014 8:59 pm at 8:59 pm #1191293OURtorahParticipant
arent all puzzles interlocking???May 18, 2014 9:10 pm at 9:10 pm #1191294
no, some puzzles have pieces that fit together, some have pieces that actually grab each other. Those are the ones you can lift up by the corners in one piece when they are done. A non-interlocking puzzle will not come up off the table.May 18, 2014 9:54 pm at 9:54 pm #1191295
SYAG, your Rov says OK, and that’s 1000% great. For you. It doesn’t make a chiyuv on ME to do it. Mt Rov often paskened for me that something was muttar, but better to not do it. There are many halachas that come under such an umbrella, and as I pointed out, people adopt personal chumrahs or minhagim on themselves ALL the time. As long as we do not deride someone else who DOES what we choose not to do, because they are not doing anything wrong, I see no problem. I am sure there are things that I do, that many people who post here don’t, even though they are muttar.
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