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Recently a number of leading poskim in Eretz Yisroel reiterated the blanked ban for any Jew to join the violent heretical death cult called the “IDF”.
Those rabbunim were explicit for some reasons that this is currently and will never in the future be allowed under any absurd attempts to kasher that p!g with various “tracks” like “netzak yizrael” or others.However the rabbunim also added “there are other reasons for this” of why there can never be a kosher track in the Zionist army cult. My question do you think the “additional reasons” might be?
Here is a translation of the published psak and signatures:
בס”ד, סיון תשפ”ה<br>
B’S’D [With God’s help], Sivan 5785 [June 2025]<br><br>פסק הלכה<br>
Halachic Ruling<br><br>לשאלת רבים שאין תורתם אומנותם<br>
For the question of the many whose Torah is not their profession<br><br>על פי דין תורה איסור חמור להתגייס לצבא המהווה כור היתוך לחמורות שבחמורות ולפריקת עול.<br>
According to Torah law, it is a severe prohibition to enlist in the army, which constitutes a melting pot for the most severe [transgressions] and the casting off of the yoke [of Heaven].<br><br>האיסור כולל גם מסלולים חרדיים שכבר קמו או שיקומו בעתיד, שהרי הוחזקו לשקר, בנוסף למגמתם לשנות את מהותו של ציבור שומרי התורה והמצוות, וכן כפיפותם לערכאות, ויש בזה עוד טעמים.<br>
The prohibition also includes Haredi tracks that have already been established or will be established in the future, as they have been proven to be deceitful, in addition to their aim to change the essence of the public of Torah and Mitzvot observers, and also their submission to [secular] courts, and there are other reasons for this.<br><br>והכרזה שסופו של התהליך הוא התגייסות לצבא לכל דבר.<br>
And a declaration that the end of this process is enlistment in the army for all intents and purposes.<br><br>וע”ז באנו על החתום (בסדר קבלתם)<br>
And for this we have signed (in the order of their receipt).<br><br><br>
Section 1: The Greats of Torah and Hasidut<br>
גדולי התורה והחסידות, וגדולי ההוראה דק”ק גור, צאנז ועוד<br>
The Greats of Torah and Hasidut, and the Greats of Halachic Rulings of the holy communities of Ger, Sanz, and more<br>-
Yechiel Michal Zilber<br>Rosh Yeshiva of Zvhil<br>
And besides this, I heard from the mouth of the Gaon of Tchebin zt”l, who ruled according to the Gemara (Berachot 4) that even King David, who went out to war, would consult with the Sanhedrin, and would ask the Urim and Thummim. The Gaon zt”l said, how is it possible to send a Jewish boy to the army and to war when there is no Sanhedrin and no Urim and Thummim. Whichever boy it may be. (Written according to his instruction).<br>
(Signature) -
Shmuel David HaCohen Gross<br>From the elder Rabbis of Ger<br>Av Beit Din (Head of Rabbinical Court) in the Rabbinical Court of HaKrayot Ashdod<br>
(Signature and Stamp) -
Naftali Nussbaum<br>Av Beit Din Ahavat Shalom<br>Rosh Yeshiva Chayei Moshe<br>
(Signature)
<br>
<br>
-
Dov Weiss<br>Ga’avad (Chief Rabbi) of Kiryat Sanz, Jerusalem<br>
(Signature) -
Mordechai Tzvi Greenfield<br>Rabbi of the holy community of Chernobyl<br>
(Signature) -
Chaim Elazar Weiss<br>Ga’avad (Chief Rabbi) of Beitar Illit<br>
(Signature) -
Chaim Shmerler<br>Rabbi of the Beit Midrash “Heichal Tzvi Sanz” and Rosh Yeshiva of Oraisa<br>
Like Yehuda and more, regarding this simple matter which is as clear as an egg in milk.<br>
(Signature)
<br>
Section 3: Beit Din Tzedek Zichron Meir<br>
בית דין צדק זכרון מאיר – וגדולי ההוראה דק”ק ויז’ניץ<br>
Beit Din Tzedek (Court of Righteous Justice) Zichron Meir – and the Greats of Halachic Rulings of the holy community of Vizhnitz<br>-
Moshe Shaul Klein<br>Rabbi of the Or HaChaim neighborhood and Av Beit Din of Vizhnitz<br>
(Signature) -
Shmuel Eliezer Stern<br>Av Beit Din of West Bnei Brak<br>
(Signature) -
Yaakov Meir Stern<br>Dayan (Rabbinic Judge) of the Vizhnitz community and Av Beit Din of Kehilot Yaakov, Bnei Brak<br>
(Signature) -
Yosef Binyamin HaLevi Wosner<br>The holy Admor (Grand Rabbi) of Shevet HaLevi<br>
(Signature)
<br>
Section 4: Beit Din Tzedek Machzikei HaDas<br>
בית דין צדק מחזיקי הדת – דק”ק בעלזא<br>
Beit Din Tzedek (Court of Righteous Justice) Machzikei HaDas – of the holy community of Belz<br>-
Chaim Tzvi Shapira<br>Ra’avad (Chief Rabbi) of Machzikei HaDas, Belz<br>
With God’s help, the above words are true and steadfast, and one must not come to “their” melting pot, as it is dangerous and contradicts our holy Torah. With great respect.<br>
(Handwritten text and signature) -
Chaim Pesach Horowitz<br>Dayan (Rabbinic Judge) of the Belz Ashdod community and Member of the Beit Din Tzedek of Machzikei HaDas<br>
I hereby support and affirm all of the above, primarily to safeguard every Jewish soul to remain in holiness and purity for our holy Torah. And on this, I have signed.<br>
(Handwritten text and signature) -
HaKatan Shammai Kehat Gross HaCohen<br>Member of the Beit Din Tzedek of Machzikei HaDas, Belz<br>
Signed on the greatness of the responsibility that is in this, and they are, God forbid, to be lenient and to push aside a soul for a soul.<br>
(Handwritten text and signature)
NO
not the shevi’es
not the so called ‘heresy’ of ZPlain old and genuine yiddishkait problems
which formed the most gdolim’s historic opposition to Z
NOT THE MINORITY SATMAR CONCERNSany other portrayal is plain sheker
if somejew has some honesty he should concede this valid point.
The only difference between Satmar and most of the other Gedolim was how to deal with and interact with the State post facto. Most said you can vote and take money, whereas Satmar holds you cannot vote and cannot accept Israeli government funding.
Otherwise, Brisk, Agudas Yisroel, the Litvish and the other Chasidish all held and hold the same as Satmar vis-a-vis Zionism.
The difference is very minor. On virtually all the significant questions they all hold the same.
Of course, the Poskim live comfortably under the blanket of security that the IDF provides, while complaining about the way the IDF provides it.
so what solutions do they offer? another holocaust?
so what solutions do they offer? another holocaust?
@somejew – First of all, please provide the Hebrew original.
Second, the objections are the same tired objections the Charedi world expresses every 30 seconds, which are not going to change without Charedim enlisting en-masse and forcing the change they want. They have nothing to do with your favorite bogey-man, Zionism.
@ujm – Zionism has nothing to do with this, Joe. See above.Somejewiknow,
So, if you lived in the United States in 1942, how would you evade the draft?The only difference between Satmar and most of the other Gedolim was how to deal with and interact with the State post facto. [maybe]
The difference however is very major.
satmar , ujm , katan and somejew are not concerned about the safety of millions of innocents , yoshvei tsion.
whereas most other gdolim i.e. Agudas Yisroel, the Litvish and the other Chasidish all , are concerned about the safety of millions of innocents , yoshvei tsion.
—
that is a huge difference.
.
.
.Of course, the Poskim live comfortably under the blanket of security that the IDF provides, while complaining about the way the IDF provides it.
—Why not ?
Why shouldn’t they complain ?
It is the responsibility of the one who created the mess , to clean it up afterwards.
.
.5TResident:
You have an interesting definition of “comfort”. And you’re forgetting that the wicked Zionists invaded a century ago against the will of the Jews there. Nobody asked the Zionists to invade. They chose to do so against the will of the Jews there. The Zionists are responsible for their own mess they made.5TResident – Of course, you live comfortably under the blanket of security of the Five Towns, while complaining about the way we deal with the complex situation here. There is a lot more going on here on all sides than you will ever see on YWN, so it is disingenuous to just throw out cheap complaints. The Poskim, Roshei Yeshivos, Rebbes, etc., who live here and dedicate their lives to helping and guiding Yidden here, are not ‘complaining’. They are dealing with very real problems that even the (more serious end of the) Dati-Leumi do not deny exist. Are you aware, for example, that there is a movement of Dati-Leumi women lobbying to protect their husbands (who serve in active combat units) from ‘gender integration issues’ in the Army ודי למבין…
On a practical level, the Army needs the Chareidim like a hole in their head. On the Secular side, this is all about Right versus Left, Supreme Court versus elected government, Only Bibi versus Anything Other Than Bibi, Yuli Edelstein trying to send his boss into retirement and become the next boss, Bennett taking another shot at the Piñata and not caring what will happen the day after, and other שאר ירקות that are very relevant to the security needs of Israel. There are plenty of Tzfonbonim who go to college in Europe instead of going to the Army, or else do a short stint in an Army office or media outlet. On the Chareidi (and a growing portion of the Chardali) side, this is primarily about והיה מחניך קדוש, which is a very serious issue that can potentially be יהרג ואל יעבור, (for girls, literally יהרג ואל יעבור, as paskened by the חזון איש). If you don’t know what a ‘Tzfonboni’ or a ‘Chardali’ is, then you may want to educate yourself more about the nuances of Israeli society before formulating your opinions.
Traitors, through and through.
Most likely that these “gedolei poskim” (whatever the heck that is) have no idea what’s going on in this policy other than “no”. Deep understanding of policy, deep.
So if the army is such a problematic place, how should we defend our country? We shouldn’t have an army at all? Don’t tell me the Zionists shouldn’t have invaded the land cos we can’t turn the clock back. What do we do now? Bring back the British mandate?
anonymous > So, if you lived in the United States in 1942, how would you evade the draft?
Maybe Lubavitcher Rebbe’s way (by working for the Navy_
YYA > On a practical level, the Army needs the Chareidim like a hole in their head.
The rational part of the current matzav is a prolonged war. Israel was previously successful at making war quickly. With long engagements, resources are stretched. There is increase in sending women closer to combat than usual. Given how emphatic R Kotler was against drafting women into Tzahal, maybe he would suggest to send available men instead?
Maybe you mean that Caredim are not prepared for the Army? This is “killing the parents and asking for rahmanus as an orphan”. They are not prepared because they refused to prepare. In practical terms, those who want to do teshuva could use pathways that can be accessed faster – maybe drivers, cooks, computer engineers …
YYA> Only Bibi versus Anything Other Than Bibi, Yuli Edelstein trying to send his boss into retirement and become the next boss, Bennett taking another shot at the Piñata and not caring what will happen the day after, and other שאר ירקות that are very relevant to the security needs of Israel.
I agree that a lot of heat is generated by people trying to get ahead politically. Maybe there is a moment now, again, to try to join together, whether in the army or in tehilim.
I think I joked already that the new law was secretly written by Roshei Yeshivos to make learners learn. And here it is reported second-hand:
>> And the sanctions going into force immediately would actually be welcomed by many rabbis — who would prefer that their students not travel abroad or engage in other behavior that would distract them from their studies, said Yanky Faber, a reporter for Behadrei Haredim.
>> “They don’t mind these sanctions at all,” he said.AAQ – Making this into a ‘crisis’ is all about the political שאר ירקות and nothing else. The Army doesn’t need more canon fodder or potato peelers. The truth is, there are voices within the Army for years already pushing for a smaller and better trained army, as opposed to automatically drafting every 18 year old kid as a matter of principle. Just look at a picture of Gilad Shalit. Who was the idiot who sent that kid to active duty in Gaza? The truth is, Israel doesn’t need ALL the kids, but they do need more than a volunteer enlistment program could provide. But who’s to say who is free to go? So they are stuck with a general conscription law they themselves aren’t always thrilled with, because every new recruit costs them money and resources, but the ROI in the long term isn’t always worth it. They much prefer to invest in pilots and commandos, or advanced technology. What happens is that the Army itself looks to get rid of potential recruits they suspect will be a headache for them, and there are many ways to do that (with or without laws on the books) as everyone here knows on both sides… ודי למבין So don’t hold your breath waiting to see 10K new Chareidi recruits anytime soon…
AAQ – Maybe there is a moment now, again, to try to join together, whether in the army or in Tehilim.
All noise to the contrary notwithstanding, on the person-to-person grassroots level, there is much more אחדות here than you may think. We hope to Hashem אך טוב לישראל ברוחניות ובגשמיות.
anonymous Jew asked:
“Somejewiknow, So, if you lived in the United States in 1942, how would you evade the draft?”
The answer is simple, by learning in Yeshiva.
In the end all those not learning will have to serve. Take it from one with years of army combat experience who is charedi, the army is fun.
the army is fun. Stop your galut nonsense
The OP is a fallacy. There were and are Sefardi, Litvish, and Chasidish Poskim who have instructed people to join the IDF.
An example of a prominent Posek who, himself enlisted Is Rabbi Gedalia Nadel.
The OP has a hard time distinguishing between public policy declarations / polemics and actual psakim given to people who ask shailos to their Rebbeim.
Non Political: There are, also, examples of Sefardi, Litvish, and Chasidish Poskim who have instructed people to eat treif food.
Or to kill someone. Or to drive on Shabbos. Or to r’l amputate a limb. Or to eat chometz on Pesach.
Sometimes it is permitted or required.
YYA > All noise to the contrary notwithstanding, on the person-to-person grassroots level, there is much more אחדות here than you may think.
I absolutely agree. I mentioned that in the thread on siyum hashas – most baalei batim I talked to would like to have everyone together.
Also, I know places where Rav is officially very charedi and proper, while somewhat sympathetic to others in his unofficial lashon. When he is not present, others might say tefilos for tzahal, medina, shevuyim instead of saying tehilim for unnamed reason as many places do.
I don’t fully understand the position of the Charedi Gedolim. Currently we have a secular state and a secular IDF, there’s not much we can do about that. We’re also surrounded by many nations and terrorist organizations who want to destroy us. Not much we can do about that either. Given the reality, they don’t think we should have an army? Or only secular Jews should be in the army but all religious Jews, whether Charedi or Dati LeUmi are prohibited from joining? That would take a lot of manpower away from the army, and at least bederech hateva, put us in much more danger that we are in. Or do they agree that there should be an army, after all, ein somchin al haneis and we need to work within teva to defend ourselves against our enemies… but it’s only the other Jews, secular and Dati LeUmi who need to sacrifice for that defense, but that Charedim, whether learning or not, are not only exempt from that burden but prohibited from joining?
@ UJM
“There are, also, examples of Sefardi, Litvish, and Chasidish Poskim who have instructed people to eat treif food. Or to kill someone. Or to drive on Shabbos. Or to r’l amputate a limb. Or to eat chometz on Pesach. Sometimes it is permitted or required.”
You know what no Poskim ever instructed? To participate in Kfira and A”Z
For the record, I don’t agree with your analogy. But that’s besides the point
@ Simcha613
I think the correct answer to your question is “none of the above”
“Charedi Gedolim” is redundant; there are no other Gedolim.
And, yes, religious Jews, who never asked for the State that triggered a century of violence, shouldn’t serve it.
And they aren’t needed.
They are needed in defending Kal Yisroel with their Limud Torah and being Shomer Torah U’Mitzvos; things the secular neglect and refuse to sacrifice for.
@ UJM
Still waiting to hear how eminent Sefardi, Litvish, and Chasidish Poskim could Paskin to join the IDF under ANY circumstances if doing so = Kfira / AZ.
Rambam, Hilchot Melachim 3,2
וְשׁוֹלֵחַ בְּכָל גְּבוּל יִשְׂרָאֵל וְלוֹקֵחַ מִן הָעָם הַגִּבּוֹרִים וְאַנְשֵׁי חַיִל וְעוֹשֶׂה מֵהֶן חַיִל לְמֶרְכַּבְתּוֹ וּבְפָרָשָׁיו וּמַעֲמִיד מֵהֶן עוֹמְדִים לְפָנָיו. וּמַעֲמִיד מֵהֶן אֲנָשִׁים לָרוּץ לְפָנָיו. שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר (שמואל א ח יא) “וְשָׂם לוֹ בְּמֶרְכַּבְתּוֹ וּפָרָשָׁיו וְרָצוּ לִפְנֵי מֶרְכַּבְתּו”ֹ. וְלוֹקֵחַ מִן הַיָּפִים שֶׁבָּהֶם לִהְיוֹת שַׁמָּשִׁים וְעוֹמְדִים לְפָנָיו שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר (שמואל א ח טז) “וְאֶת בַּחוּרֵיכֶם הַטּוֹבִים” (שמואל א ח טז) “יִקָּח וְעָשָׂה לִמְלַאכְתּוֹ”:
Ibid 6,1
וְאֵי זוֹ הִיא מִלְחֶמֶת מִצְוָה זוֹ מִלְחֶמֶת שִׁבְעָה עֲמָמִים. וּמִלְחֶמֶת עֲמָלֵק. וְעֶזְרַת יִשְׂרָאֵל מִיַּד צָר שֶׁבָּא עֲלֵיהֶם.Ibid 7,4
בַּמֶּה דְּבָרִים אֲמוּרִים שֶׁמַּחְזִירִין אֲנָשִׁים אֵלּוּ מֵעוֹרְכֵי הַמִּלְחָמָה בְּמִלְחֶמֶת הָרְשׁוּת. אֲבָל בְּמִלְחֶמֶת מִצְוָה הַכּל יוֹצְאִין וַאֲפִלּוּ חָתָן מֵחַדְרוֹ וְכַלָּה מֵחֻפָּתָהּ:The Netziv (Heemek Devar Devarim 17,15) and Rav Kook (Miushpat Cohen 144) say that any leader chosen by the public has the status of a king for these matters. Rav Schachter quoted Rav Yaakov Kaminetzky as telling his grandson that if lived in Israel, he would be obligated to serve. He hs a shiur on e subject which can be heard online. Rav Zevin also condemned draft dodgers. You can read it (“R. Shelomo Yosef Zevin on the Drafting of Yeshiva Students” (TRADITION, Fall 1985)) online.
The fact is that nobody goes OTD because of the IDF. They would have gone OTD anyway,as anyone who lives in a Chareidi area knows.
@Non Political – don’t hold your breath waiting – @ujm is like a computer with a full disk – it is incapable of absorbing new data, and will therefore provide all answers based on the outdated data it already has on file.
an Israeli Yid
Somehewiknow,
Here’s what I don’t understand. If , as you maintain, that Israel is not a Jewish state, then you have no legal basis to ignore a draft notice. You choose to live in the country, so you are subject to its laws, no different than you would be subject to an army draft in the United States.Non Political: Firstly, I haven’t made a single comment about Kefira and/or A”Z. So it is preplexing what you are hocking in chinik about in addressing that irrelevant question to me.
But, just to humor you, in order to even answer your potentially false question, first you’ll need to provide the specific names of the specific Gedolim, who told specific individuals who you can name for us right over here, to join the IDF. And the actual timeframe when they allegedly told them that — and your actual verifiable proof it isn’t fiction that belongs in the Bubbe Maaisas files.
some > since the government claims itself to be fraudulently jewish,
current Israeli gov is based on a (qualified) democracy that includes non-Jews – both Arabs and non-halachik Jews. What is the problem with following rules of a democratic society? When Jews were drafted into Russian army, yes many tried to evade, but nobody called for a rebellion against the czar. Furthermore, the (religious) kahal was required to provide the soldiers and much corruption was happening, when poor and orphans were usually drafted. (one of my ancestors was). But the same seems to be happening now – heads of your community are negotiating who from your community will be drafted why trying to protect the rest. There is normal democratic process – as long as you do not lead into hatred towards other Jews because they are not voting your way.
Chareidi parties agreed to allow bochurim to serve in the IDF before the Iran attacks began. Lots of good points in this thread which raise a question as to how and why they agreed.
Avi K:
You “Modern Orthodox” are really in such a bubble that it’s almost amazing to see. The reason for that, of course, is that all the gedolim stated that your lifeblood of Zionism is heresy and idolatry, so you have no choice but to invent your own nonsense even when that goes against every gadol that ever lived. Do you really think that the Chazon Ish, the Brisker Rav and all the others couldn’t learn that Rambam at least as well as Rabbi Zevin, yet they all stated that the Zionist army was absolutely forbidden? This is so silly. That’s besides the fact that the Zionist army is shmad and the gimmel chamuros.
In addition to your idolatrous nonsense about the IDF, as if the Rambam is in any way remotely relevant to that shmad army as mentioned, your contention that “The fact is that nobody goes OTD because of the IDF. They would have gone OTD anyway,as anyone who lives in a Chareidi area knows.” is pure wicked lies. Rav Steinman once told a boy who came to him that no matter which army “framework” he would do, if he would go to that Zionist army, he would come out “a total goy”. Your own fellow idolaters, the “Religious Zionists”, cry to their rabbis about what the wicked Zionists do to them in that army.
If you want to worship your idol, that’s between you and G-d, but don’t make that worse by denying that of course Jews obviously go OTD in that shmad army.
LerntminTayrah> Chareidi parties agreed to allow bochurim to serve in the IDF before the Iran attacks began.
possibly, but it appears that the final moment was that Arye Deri was at the last moment told why this is not the right moment to bring the government down and that meant the end of the rebellion. Not sure – was Yuli Edelstein in the know? Maybe Bibi was killing 2 birds with 1 stone – create an impression that his government is going down to fool Persians and, l’havdil, forcing Shas to surrender. Maybe not just “forcing”. From my outsider POV, Shas always feels a need to compete with other charedim to be considered charedi, but they are happy to do what is right for the country as long as they have a solid excuse, so Bibi gave them that.
Another parallel in negotiations (in no way, I am considering the parties here, hope nobody is offended, we are just studying negotiation processes – and this should be on everyone’s list in Trump times!): Persian non-extremist side of the government would like to surrender but cannot in front of the extremists. So, when all their military will be bombed out, they can agree because there is nothing to surrender. Same might be (just a hypothesis) view of some of the Roshei Yeshivos – they might want to have their students tit and learn, and those who do not learn not to walk and around and smoke – so they might be willing to surrender here, but they cannot be seen surrendering.
> don’t make that worse by denying that of course Jews obviously go OTD in that shmad army.
is there any research on those charedim who already went to the army – what was their state of mind before and after the army?
@ UJM
“…to humor you, in order to even answer your potentially false question”I assume you meant to say false question.
If, as you say, you never claimed that Z is Kfira / A”Z I will have to take your word for it I don’t have your many posts memorized and if I wrongly attributed HaKatan’s or Somejew’s position to you then I apologize.
Next
You wrote: “first you’ll need to provide the specific names of the specific Gedolim, who told specific individuals who you can name for us right over here, to join the IDF”
I did exactly that. I named HaRav Gedaliah Nadel. He himself joined the IDF. Look him up.
The answer is simple. If the IDF is run by anti-Torah people, then Chareidim should not join and just let them get on with it. The alternative is to have an army run by Torah Jews, with only Chareidim in it. What was the army like in the time of the Tanach – you were only allowed in if you were shomer mitzvos.
By the way, the army was chiloni-free for 1000 years from the time of Moshe, but we don’t hear of any complaints about why the chilonim were not serving. Now, with a mere 77 years of the State, the chilonim don’t stop complaining why the chareidim don’t serve.
Cry babies, indeed.HaKatan,
1. What about Rav Kook, Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, Rav Mordechai Eliahu, Rav Zevin, Rav Soloveichik, etc,,etc.?
2. Rav Ovadia said that if not for the IDF, there would be no yeshivot (see See Sanhedrin 49a). The IDF s now facing a severe manpower shortage. We cannot afford to exempt more than a very small elite, who can be a branch of the IDF Rabbinate. The rest can be in various types of Chareidi units. Military intelligence is especially suited for those with Gemara heads (there already exists such a unit ) and is also a pathway to good jobs.
3. What do your gedolim say about Internet usage? Just curious.
Non Political: Rav Nadal wasn’t yet a godol when he joined. So that in of itself isn’t a raya. You’ll need to tell which godol suggested he join.
By the way, he also deserted the army in 1948. Using your argument I’d have to assume you see that as a raya that people in the army should desert it.
1. As the gedolim pointed out, including the Gerrer Rebbe, the Brisker Rav and all the rest, and as is clear to any first-year BM guy who is uninfluenced by Zionist idolatry, Rabbis Kook and Soloveichik were very wrong. Rav Elchonon and others pointed out that “Religious Zionism” is idolatry. Ergo, any rabbi who considers himself a “Religious Zionist” thus considers himself an idolater and his positions are obviously irrelevant to Torah.
Regarding Rav SZA, you’d have to specify writings from him that you think support your idolatry, but, regardless, it is idolatry.
2. Where did he write that? Besides, even if that were true (which it’s not – Hashem runs the world), the Torah states that if not for Torah learning there would be no world at all, and that Torah study protects. Obviously, there is no point to any army, if the whole enterprise is dead. Clearly, it is suicidal (on multiple levels) of the Zionists to stop supporting Torah and to attempt to draft its learners and force them to stop learning and keeping the world going.
3. Who said they have any opinion on that? Let’s stay on topic.
Ebrown- I am surprised at your attitude. “Crybabies indeed”. I understand (though vehemently disagree) why people think Charedim shouldn’t join the army. But many of the people who are complaining are not just “crybabies” but they are genuinely suffering because of the lack of manpower. Months away from their families. Months at a time away from the Beis Medrash. Months away from the business. Parnassah’s suffering and failing. Can you even imagine being on the front lines facing our enemies, trying to keep you and your men alive, with the nagging constant thought in the back of your head that you are not confident about your family’s financial future because of your failing business? The physical and psychological toll of going back to the front many many times because there aren’t enough soldiers.
Your lack of empathy is so shocking and disturbing to me in general…even more so that it’s not even a lack of empathy for random people, but your very brothers who are sacrificing so much to make sure Acheinu Beis Yisroel in Eretz Yisroel are safe… I don’t understand how you can speak of them like this. Can you honestly close your eyes, put yourself in their shoes, imagine what they are risking and sacrificing, and still call them cry babies with a straight face?
ebrown > The alternative is to have an army run by Torah Jews, with only Chareidim in it.
a good idea. And how did IDF start – with several militias that were sometimes unhappy with each other. Nothing stopped R Zonnenfeld and Chazon Ish from starting their own units. At that time, there were religious Jews who were veterans of Russian and Polish armies who could have started. But it is not too late. Start small – maybe take on Huthis or some other small group.
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Yechiel Michal Zilber<br>Rosh Yeshiva of Zvhil<br>
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