May 27, 2023 11:01 pm at 11:01 pm #2193286Trump4jewsParticipant
Does anyone know, are Puma and Adidas German companies?May 28, 2023 12:20 am at 12:20 am #21933102qwertyParticipant
If there is a problem buying German products why isn’t there a problem speaking German, I think some pelple refer to it as Yiddish.May 28, 2023 8:48 am at 8:48 am #2193320
Yiddish is a holy language, much like chazal say not to take Aramaic lightly, because so much Torah was said in it.
Germany descended from amalek, as the Gaon said. But no one had a problem speaking a changed version of the language.
Using german products, especially companies which assisted hitler ym”s like Volkswagen and Mercedes, is something people with a Yiddishe heart boycott. Some of my rebbeim mentioned it, that they learned from their survivor parents never to touch a German product.
It’s very offensive when people mock the idea.May 28, 2023 8:48 am at 8:48 am #2193321Trump4jewsParticipant
I’m not trying to spark a whole debate over here.May 28, 2023 8:49 am at 8:49 am #2193354commonsaychelParticipant
PS try googling a company, you can find out what when the business is based.May 28, 2023 8:49 am at 8:49 am #2193361hujuParticipant
I don’t know who is the current owner of Adidas, but one of its founders, in 1936, was a member of the Nazi Party. He made the track shoes. He also made the track shoes for Jesse Owen’s, who was referred to as “the Schwartz American” by the announcer at the 1936 Olympics, which Hitler wanted to showcase his theory of German racial superiority.May 28, 2023 12:02 pm at 12:02 pm #2193395takahmamashParticipant
Yiddish is not any more or less holy than English. Find me someplace in Tanach or the Gemara that says Yiddish is holy, then I’ll believe it.May 28, 2023 12:07 pm at 12:07 pm #2193388akupermaParticipant
They are both multinational publicly traded corporations that originated in Germany. If you have to describe their “nationality” (a problem with multinational corporations), you could say they are European (referring to the EU, not the continent).
If you want to boycott companies based on World War II, you probably should make all your own products from scratch, and avoid all retailers (remember, we now know that the Allies knew about the holocaust from the “get go” and avoided trying to interfere).May 28, 2023 12:30 pm at 12:30 pm #2193412
A fair comment about Europeans: and the best,and cheaper, alternative to German products, I guess, would be Chinese – who not only imprison 1 bln + of their own citizens but also support all other current dictatorships – Norks, Russia, Iran … So, if you can’t find a heimeshe or a free anglo world alternative, I would first limit purchases from the current commies and only as a second priorities to the German/Europeans even if the latter is more emotionally charged.May 28, 2023 12:54 pm at 12:54 pm #2193428Ari KnoblerParticipant
Adidas is a German company. Adolf Dassler, founder of Adidas, joined the Nazi Party in 1933 along with his brother. The two also became members of the National Socialist Motor Corps. Adolf also took the rank of Sportwart in the Hitler Youth from 1935 until the end of the war.
During WWII, Adidas supplied the Wehrmacht with shoes. In 1943, they halted shoe production and began to manufacture anti-tank weapons. From 1942 to 1945, there were slave laborers working at the two Adidas factories. The company claims there were only nine slave laborers, but who would believe them.
You can be sure that many of the shoes the Jews at Sachsenhausen were forced by the Nazis to test out were Adidas. At that camp, the Germans made the prisoners wear new shoe prototypes many times smaller than their feet and walk for miles on end until their toes broke. It is one of the lesser-known atrocities of the War. German shoe companies wanted to test the strength and durability of their new models, and the interned Jews were perfect for the job. But just to be sadistic, the Germans made sure to always use shoes many times smaller than the prisoners’ feet, which of course meant that the test runs of the shoes were worthless. When a prisoner fell over writhing in pain, they were either tortured, starved, shot, or hanged. “D-IX,” the notorious performance-enhancing cocktail of coke, meth, and oxycodone was tested on the prisoners of Sachsenhausen before it was approved and given to German military units to keep them high when in action.
Adidas is a Nazi company through and through. No Jew should buy their products.
links removedMay 28, 2023 7:53 pm at 7:53 pm #2193480mdd1Participant
Avira, Chazal say not to take Aramaic lightly not because “a lot of Torah was said in it” — unless you can provide a source.May 28, 2023 9:30 pm at 9:30 pm #2193486
Mdd, no problem – See “Yiddish, a holy language” by rav dovid cohenMay 28, 2023 9:30 pm at 9:30 pm #2193487
R Yehuda in Sotah 49 suggests using Hebrew, Greek, or Persian rather than Syriac (seemingly Aramaic dialect). Guessing he would prefer English or even High German to Yiddish …May 28, 2023 10:16 pm at 10:16 pm #2193494GadolhadorahParticipant
German investment banks and hedge funds hold material equity positions in many Fortune 500 companies and even some Israeli publicly traded companies (including one of the largest Israeli supermarket chains). In today’s global financial markets, its becoming very difficult to say which companies are “German” companies unless you mean 100% owned by a German domiciled entity with ties directly back to the Nazis Y’S.May 28, 2023 10:16 pm at 10:16 pm #2193495mdd1Participant
Avira, I do not have that seifer. Please, quote a Chazal.
Always…, an excellent kashya!May 29, 2023 7:17 am at 7:17 am #2193527commonsaychelParticipant
@GH, a quick search of the internet will show you the companies who had the direct links to the Nazis Y’S, a quick few examples Hugo Boss, Puma, VW, Audi, Lufthansa, Duetsche Bank, Allianz.
My grandmother has a Auschwitz number and i would never knowing consume a product produced by a company who had Nazi links.May 29, 2023 7:20 am at 7:20 am #2193505
Mdd, I remember seeing sources in that sefer; I’ll try to look them up when i get a chanceMay 29, 2023 1:23 pm at 1:23 pm #2193627Reb EliezerParticipant
Chasidishe yeshivas learn in yiddish as I did.May 29, 2023 2:44 pm at 2:44 pm #2193638
This is a loaded topic for this site.May 29, 2023 3:55 pm at 3:55 pm #2193643
Clarification: My post refers to the merits of Yiddish and specifically the coffee room.May 29, 2023 7:35 pm at 7:35 pm #2193655GadolhadorahParticipant
CS: There are companies which originally had “ties” to the Nazis that were sold decades ago to other entities in the U.S., EU countries, China and even EY. So it really depends on how you want to parse the ownership issue. One of the most widely referenced web sites listing corporations with direct Nazi ties or collaborations listed one of the three largest U.S. banks as selling Nazi war bonds, the 4th largest U.S. pharmaceutical company manufacturing drugs using Nazi slave labor and one of the most widely used providers of 401Ks to American businesses was a major German insurance company providing direct support to the Nazi war effort. There are still some direct 100% owned German companies that haven’t changed their upstream control since the Shoah but many have.May 29, 2023 7:38 pm at 7:38 pm #2193644anonymous JewParticipant
Reb Eliezer, so does learning in English make English holy?
Yiddish was simply the everyday language of East European Jewry, nothing more, nothing less. It was also the language Jews used to curse in as Hebrew didn’t really have vulgarities.
Germans were descended from Northern European ( Scandinavia) tribes, not Amalek. Amalek disappeared before the Assyrian Empire arose and there is no connection between the two, other than for midrashic drasha purposes.May 29, 2023 8:30 pm at 8:30 pm #2193678
Anon, the Gaon said that Germany is from amalek way before there was antisemitism there. Rav yosef Chaim zonnenfeld famously avoided greeting kaiser willhelm, even though he was known to be friendly to Jews, because he had the mesorah from the Gaon.
Yes they are Scandinavian… But where did they come from? The gaon bases it on a medrash which says that amalek settled in “Germanya” after sancheriv.
You need to learn history from chazal, not academics. Have a drop of emunas chachamim; if you believe them that a drop of milk can cause a taste particle to form in a stainless steel pot and can be transferred by cooking after you clean it with abrasive scrubbing, then you can believe them for history.
Unless you indeed don’t believe them about things which you don’t understand. In which case we don’t have much to talk aboutMay 29, 2023 9:19 pm at 9:19 pm #2193688anonymous JewParticipant
Avira, the difference is whether you believe midrashim are historical or stories ( that are often contradictory) intended to make a point. Germania was named by Julius Caesar centuries after the fall of the Assyrian Empire and the disappearance of Amalek. Why would Amalek travel nearly 4000 miles to Northern Europe?May 30, 2023 12:41 am at 12:41 am #2193695
Anon, who told you that about medrashim? Did you read it online? Because it’s apikorsus. When chazal speak about spiritual matters, we have a mesorah to that effect; they’re not trying to “make a point,” they’re speaking about realities beyond the physical. Check maharal in beer hagolah for frequent mentions of this.
As for why people travel – they do. Ever hear of nomads? There are civilizations that have travelled vast differences. If this is your “kasha” on chazal…i don’t know who you’re convincing with it, if even yourself.
I’ll take the gaons words over that of a person who reads Wikipedia history articles and thinks that they know more than gedolei olam. And the fact that the germans became nazis only proved the Gaon right…what greater proof of that can there be?May 30, 2023 8:28 pm at 8:28 pm #2194165
Most modern Europeans are barbarians who travelled there from Ukranian steppes and beyond.May 31, 2023 9:51 am at 9:51 am #2194319yeshivaguy45Participant
This is only a matter of opinion, so not everyone may agree to this. A holocaust survivor was once asked if he thinks all Germans should be held responsible for the holocaust even if they didn’t participate. He said “Imagine a factory where some of the workers mess up and the whole factory is ruined but all the workers get blamed even though they had nothing to do with it. That’s the same thing here.”
I personally think that’s not true in all situations, as there’s a famous saying, “If you were with them, you’re one of them.”May 31, 2023 11:28 am at 11:28 am #2194328midwesternerParticipant
Trump guy: You opened a debate and then said a few minutes later that you’re not trying to start a debate?
Whatever.May 31, 2023 11:28 am at 11:28 am #2194347
Yeshiva – that survivor is entitled to his opinion.
Rav avigdor miller sair numerous times that all germans will burn in hell forever, even those there todayMay 31, 2023 11:28 am at 11:28 am #2194358
Except of course if they accept the 7 mitzvos or become Jewish, bnei bonov shel haman lomdu torah bbnei brak etcMay 31, 2023 11:28 am at 11:28 am #2194389
Your German History is completely wrong. Germany was an awful splace for the Jews for over a thousand years. The thirty years of Wilhelm II were the best of the millennium. And he himself was openly anti Semitic. Which the online historians conveniently ignore.
The Goan lived right after centuries of brutal oppression. Do you know of the original source that we can examine to see what the Goan had in mind?May 31, 2023 1:59 pm at 1:59 pm #2194428
Nom, sources? The chasidei ashkenaz didn’t write about it as far as i know. And in the gaons time, the tzlach lived in germany and also didn’t write about it…
As for kaiser willhelm; again, source?
And the Gaon is coming from a medrash which says that amalek travelled to GermaniaMay 31, 2023 4:10 pm at 4:10 pm #2194517
Seriously? You think history is what some single individuals did or didn’t write? Rav Yechezkel Landau is at the beginning of the struggle for emancipation. Why should he write about the bitter past that he is struggling to leave behind? Yet there is still mentions of the terrible plight in some of his writings. But see the Maharil, Terumos Hadeshen, and others, for ShuT that arose from the daily atrocities.May 31, 2023 4:49 pm at 4:49 pm #2194521
The Gaon’s Torah thoughts are difficult to authenticate. Although they put out good stuff, it’s hard to know what the Gaon actually said.
Your taking this as a general midrashic statement.
Others understood it with regards to the future.
It could also be, that it is about Germany’s past up to that point. Hence, my post.
Do you know where to find the original source?May 31, 2023 4:52 pm at 4:52 pm #2194528
I’ve yet to see any such harsh treatments in teshuvos, not any more than the Jew tax that was all over Europe, ghettos, etc…
And where did the tzlach advocate for emancipation from the ghettos?
I asked you for a source, and my reason for asking was that I’m not aware of Germany being any worse for Jews than Poland, Russia, Ukraine, Lithuania, Hungary, or anywhere else in the times of the achronim.May 31, 2023 7:07 pm at 7:07 pm #2194570
It’s all over the kadmonim. Both day to day subjugation and the too often local destructions. Jews were banned from living in most major cities.. They were banned from many professions.. Owning land.. Poland had almost none of that. Hungary had no Jews. Lithuania largely ignored it’s small Jewish population. The peasants in Eastern Europe were treated the same as the Jews. (This led to the popularity of communism among those Jews.)
Confusing all emancipations with leaving the ghetto is a mistake of the online historians.May 31, 2023 10:21 pm at 10:21 pm #2194657
Poland, Lita and couple of other small places were exceptions where Jews lived – on average – better and more independent. Germany was similar to the most of Europe – and that is why “Ashekanzim” moved from Germany further East.
Communism was popular among Eastern European Jews at the time when most of them were not under Poland or Lita but under Russian empire, with those countries being “beyond the Pale” and not allowed into Russia proper. They were discriminated against, but still better off than actual Russian serfs.
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