Giloy Arayos (Movies, etc.)

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  • This topic has 143 replies, 29 voices, and was last updated 11 years ago by WIY.
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  • #703259
    Chosson
    Member

    WID,

    I’m really not so sure, I was a kid too.

    I want to reiterate that I really like this thread, I just wanted to try to explain 1987s view

    #703260
    Sacrilege
    Member

    WIY –

    Chosson does bring up a good point. At home my family only has super duper filtered (to the point of insanity) internet. I also think that you underestimate Teens and what they are interested in (I highly doubt kids are reading these posts).

    That being said. I really dont think there was anything inappropriate about this thread (yes, maybe I’m a little biased). These are all relevant issues that should be discussed. No one ever became a better person by ignoring the issues. Torah Judaism is about questioning and if a Teen has a question based on something that comes up in one of the threads, let them go ask a parent, a Rav or a Machaneches.

    #703261
    WIY
    Member

    Sacrilege

    Yeah I agree. I dont believe in sheltering kids from knowledge and intellectualism.

    Granted there are plenty of frum people that try to shelter their kids from anything and everything, but the irony is, many of these “sheltered” kids know more than their parents!

    #703262
    Chosson
    Member

    Sac,

    Just for the sake of argument, you say that if a teen reading a thread has any questions heshe should ask a Rav or a Machaneches, but what about us adults, should we not be asking a RavMechaneches all our relevant issues in Judiasm, but rather be writing about it on a thread online with perfect strangers?

    #703263
    bein_hasdorim
    Participant

    Chosson; Even w/ filtered internet I believe children should be supervised, the internet is a beast by nature, & I wouldn’t take any chances w/ my kids. Some kids are good at finding loop holes etc…

    Yes Sac; even Super De:)Duper filtered internet.

    V’nishmartem MEOD, that’s what meod means in my dictionary.

    where there is a potential danger you don’t just rely on one geder or precaution. But hey, that’s just my opinion.

    #703264
    Chosson
    Member

    Bein_hasdorim:

    If you walk into your computer room and see your kid on Yeshiva World would you further look into which of the threads he’s reading (even if you would, it’s probably because you participate in these threads, but what about a parent who doesn’t blog, and just knows about this site and that it’s a clean one?

    #703265
    Sacrilege
    Member

    Chosson – being that the problem was about Teens that’s why I addressed Teens.

    I get that you are referring to me having questions 🙂 Yes, I guess it would be better to ask someone… I don’t know that I’m ready.

    #703266
    bein_hasdorim
    Participant

    I agree since I participate I know, but thats just it,

    parents should make it their business to know. You dont trust a restaurants kashrus just because a lot of Chassidim frequent the place. but I get your point. My point however is that parents

    shouldn’t be such Temimim, especially when it comes to internet.

    and technology. It’s your biz to protect your kids so now it’s your biz to be with it.

    This is off topic but do you know how many foolish parents there are who’s young bocherim are in, lets say Mesivtah and their kids

    started smoking and the parents are clueless! They come home stinking from cigarette smoke their clothes reeking of it and

    get off by telling their parent it’s other bochurim.

    How Foolish can you be, and when they catch them w/ a cig in hand they say they were holding it for a friend. I mean some people

    really need to get w/ the program.

    #703267
    Chosson
    Member

    bein_hasdorim

    If you have internet at home and accesible to your children (which in itself is highly frowned upon), you can’t look over your childrens shoulder on the level that your implying you should, because if your going to start staring into exactly which thread your children are on even in a Kosher website, that sounds like a potential problem.

    Sacrilge

    I said “just for the sake of argument”, if you ask me, keep these threads coming, I really like it

    #703268
    Sacrilege
    Member

    Chosson – Give me a sec, I’ll think of some other fatal flaw I should over-come, then I’ll tell some overly personal details of my life, and we can all discuss it. Sound good? 😉

    #703269
    Chosson
    Member

    I didn’t mean “these” as in your problems, rather I meant as in interesting.

    Sorry for not being more clear

    #703270
    bein_hasdorim
    Participant

    Chosson; it’s your biz to be with it, not creepy,

    Sac; perhaps your “friend” has a some issue and turns to you for guidance, and you in turn, turn to the collective body of wisdom, knowledge, and life experiences that is the CR.

    #703271
    WIY
    Member

    Sacrilege

    Lol. You’re quite sarcastic. But it keeps on on our toes.

    #703272
    Moq
    Member

    Never fall prey to the illusion that you are truly anonymous in web land. Too many people have fallen prey to their anonymous alter ego, only to be busted (and God, get those stupid photos off of facebook before you apply to college. sheesh. And don’t write “looking for a free crib, applying to _________” if you’re asking for scholarship…sigh…)

    #703273
    Homeowner
    Member

    WellInformedYid,

    I don’t know what you found on Google or whether it was accurate or not. (Sometimes searches turn up material that was edited out of the “final cut” of a film.)

    I can tell you this that I remember no sex scene from the film. I have a different explanation than yours. I believe that either there was none or it was very insignificant.

    Hakatan,

    I believe you are well intentioned but I disagree with you.

    First of all, a number of the actors were definitely Jewish.

    Second, if you truly believe that watching a film of actors playing Jewish soldiers killing Nazis makes (in your words) “yourself a lesser person as a result of watching it” then I can only say you are lucky that my father, my uncles and my grandfather are in Olam Habah and not here to set you straight. As Holocaust survivors, they all would have loved the movie.

    #703274
    WIY
    Member

    Homeowner

    Supposedly it lasted 3 seconds and it involved graphic sounds I can’t and won’t go into more detail…

    The problem is that there are movies that don’t need to have such scenes but they put them in anyways.

    Additionally, it is assur to look at strange women( not your wife, daughter…) its assur to listen to nivul peh, the movie very likely had plenty of that in it, additionally there’s no reason to submit yourself to gruisome bloody images.

    If you want to learn about the war read books, talk to survivors. Don’t try to “Kasher” watching Holocaust movies because Hollywood doesn’t put out anything kosher no matter the genre.

    #703275
    Sacrilege
    Member

    The Pianist, is a very Kosher Holocaust movie (of course we can debate what a piece of garbage Roman Polanski is, but thats for another time) there was no sensuality in the movie.

    I found it a little drawn out, but as far as “Kosher”, completely.

    #703276
    WIY
    Member

    Sacrilege

    I heard it was good, but I’m sure there was inappropriate dialogue or something in that movie. Hollywood is Hollywood. They have to put some filth in every movie.

    #703277
    Sacrilege
    Member

    WIY –

    The only filth was the man who produced it. Seriously, cleanest movie ever.

    #703278
    yes-its-me
    Participant

    let it suffice that many poskey zmanainu hold that ANYONE who watches movies is called a porutz in hilchos yichud and cannot be a shomer with regarding them.

    #703279
    WIY
    Member

    Yes-its-me

    Never heard that one before. Sounds wild. Care to throw out some names?

    #703280
    Midwest2
    Participant

    Yes-its-me:

    Which poskim? Name the names, please, so we know where we are.

    As for movies, I’m pretty careful, because like Sacrilege, once the image goes into my head, it stays there. If I’m going to see a movie, it’s on DVD and after reading the reviews. Going to real theater can be really overwhelming for some movies. And don’t ever see “Pan’s Labyrinth” – it’s a great movie but it will haunt your dreams. It’s also anti-Fascist/anti-Nazi, but you’ll still be sorry the images are in your head.

    Incidentally, our local kosher dollar store has a whole rack of “kosher” DVD’s for kids. I hadn’t seen this before. How prevalent is it? The stuff looks like regular thriller/adventure, just the secret agents are from the Mossad and wear yarmulkes.

    #703281
    Sacrilege
    Member

    In defense of yes-its-me, we learned in HS that someone who OWNS a TV cant be considered a proper shomer. I dont think my Halacha Rebbi said “many Poskim” I think he said “some”.

    #703282
    Baltimore Bubby
    Participant

    Sacrilege-

    I just stumbled upon this thread, so even though my post is a little out of the flow of conversation, I still think it’s worth posting.

    When I was in my last year of high school way back, our teacher told us something on precisely this topic that still remains in my mind clearly. She told us about the influences that movies and goyish music has on our hashkafos. Remember, the worst movies and music then were probably better than the cleanest movies and music nowadays, AND STILL, our teacher explained to us the damage that secular thinking and ideals can have on our yiddishe hashkafos.

    One scary thing she told us was that if we wanted to raise a family that is a torah family, we first need to have our own hashkafos straight before we can attempt to impart them to our children. My advice to you is this: From the way it sounds, you are a young girl who will be’ezras hashem find the right one soon and hopefully build a family. You realize that what you are doing has an immense impact on your hashkafos and way of thinking for the negative. Help yourself get things straight now, before you build a family. If you won’t do it for yourself, do it for your chldren. Would you want them watching and listening to what you are watching and listening to? Probably not. But in order to do that, you must be solid in your torahdige hashkafos in order to impart the truth to your children.

    I wish you much hatzlacha! Remember, you are halfway there! Recognizing that what you are doing is incorrect is possibly the biggest step in the process!

    #703283
    lavdavka
    Member

    -WellInformedYid

    why do we need names it sounds prety reasonable

    #703284

    Before I write what I see as the correct answer to this question I’d like to remind all readers and writers of this blog that blogs should be reserved for discussing what type of pass-time to give your kid or perhaps possible ways to help the time pass quicker on the treadmill. Halocho is not debate-able, always very definitive, and is not at all in our hands to change i.e. through our ignorant and tainted arguments. In the Sefer ????? ?? ???? ??? ? ???? ? the Author writes as follows. To gaze at an ervah with the intention of enjoyment is a Rabbinic form of the issur Lo Sikrivu Lgalos Erva which is a separate issur on all Arayos prohibiting additional forms of contact but ????????? only physical while the Rabbonon treated this as a prohibited form of contact. When one looks at an Ervah and wishes they can transgress, besides transgressing the aforementioned Issur Midrabonon they also transgress an ????? ???????? of Vlo Sosuru Acharei Eineichem which the G’moro says means Z’nus. Thinking about forms of physical contact even with a person who is Muttar to you (your spouse!!!!) is an Issur of V’nishmarto Mikol Dovor Ro. The final scenario he discusses is looking at uncovered parts of the body that are usually covered, which is both an Aveiro of Vlo Sosuru because of it’s nature to make a person desire and is also an Aveiro of V’nishmarto Mikol Dovor Ro. As far as the Issur V’nishmarto on a woman, although the Issur D’oraiso probably does not apply, there is an Issur D’rabonon of V’nishmarto in which the word Dovor Ro is defined differently than it is in the Issur D’oraiso, and includes any form of prohibited viewing.

    On top of all these Issurim there is an additional Issur to gaze at the face of a Rosho which probably includes many movie actors. Now while possibly one may want to ask a sheila if the Issur Lo Sikrvu applies only to live people or even to movies, the Issurim of V’lo Sosuru and V’nishmarto most definitely do so I guess the real answer to your question is that yes, THIS IS A REAL ISSUR.

    For further discussion on the Issur histaklus for a woman see the aforementioned Sefer ???? ??.

    #703286
    Homeowner
    Member

    Sacrilege,

    Some of the disputes here remind me (I guess it’s obligatory to insert the word “l’havdil”) of the story of the right wing reverend who objected to John Lennon’s music being played on a radio station.

    When the station owner asked him to explain his objection, he said “John Lennon’s song says ‘there’s no Heaven.'”

    “Wrong” said the station owner. “The lyric is ‘IMAGINE there’s no Heaven.'”

    It’s these little details that are so important. 🙂

    #703287
    WIY
    Member

    Baltimore Bubby

    Those are very wise words. Good advice for all singles here.

    #703288
    yes-its-me
    Participant

    see sevet halevi vol 5 siman 202

    #703289
    rocker
    Member

    btw to get off non jewish music you could listen to albums like platinum by a.k.a.pella.

    #703290
    Sacrilege
    Member

    Baltimore Bubby –

    Thank you for those words of encouragement!

    You are right, I dont want to raise my children with these nisyonos that I have. People often talk about wanting to give their children every materialistic advantage they can but what about spiritual advantage?

    I know where my heart is. I think I’m just too comfortable as I am.

    Rocker –

    I too listen to AKA Pella. We were discussing the music composition of a non-Jew and if that has an effect on you. If it does, I dont think “Haib Oif” TTTO Rhianna’s “Disturbia” (with the English words being pretty much the same exact)is clearing up that problem…. Great song though!

    #703291
    WIY
    Member

    Sacrilege

    Have you had a chance to listen to those shiurim? Any thoughts?

    #703292
    Sacrilege
    Member

    Not yet :-/

    I’ll keep you posted 🙂

    #703293
    WIY
    Member

    Sacrilege

    Ok.

    #703294
    Chosson
    Member

    I would recommend A.K.A.pella 3 called “Adaptation”.

    It has much better songs than Platinum.

    I listened to it tons of times and couldn’t get enough of it.

    #703296
    Sacrilege
    Member

    Chosson

    Being that I’m a massive Bon Jovi fan, I’d say the Eitz Chaim song was great 😉

    Also, being that they now put a Kol Sasson to Josh Grobans “You Raise Me Up” I think now its Muttar for me to walk down to it… 😀

    #703297
    benaliyah
    Participant

    How do we start a thread to protest the revulsion of this thread?

    There are loads of teenagers tat read yeshiva world. It used to be that the moderators did their jobs. Now all they do is offer their opinions and delete this post. I used to feel that those extremists who yell about what yeshivawolrd shoulnt publishes were retarded but now I see that their fears were warranted. The discussions on this forum are insane. There are sites like yahoo and rotten tomatoes or kidsinmind that rate movies. But yeshivaworld? rating movies? The crowd here should go post on frumteen.com a more modern alternative nut YESHIVAworld. come on! should

    #703298
    squeak
    Participant

    So it’s OK on “frumteens” but not on “yeshivaworld”?

    Who gets to decide if it’s OK? I would assume the site owners. Unless you think that the name of the site gives you and everybody the right to censor its content, in which case I don’t see a reason to distinguish between the two names for content censoring.

    Not that I agree or disagree with your point.

    #703299
    Sacrilege
    Member

    WIY

    I listened to part of the shiur I downloaded by R Yossi Mizrachi (its 2.5 hours, so I got home from work before I finished it) and its abesolutely amazing!

    Thanks for the tip!

    Also, FYI, I got an email that he is going to be speaking in the NY area soon.

    #703300
    WIY
    Member

    Sacrilege

    I’m really happy you liked it, that’s so great BH! You are welcome!

    Which one did you listen to?

    He speaks in Queens I believe. If he were speaking in Brooklyn id totally go if I was available that night.

    #703301
    Sacrilege
    Member

    WIY

    He was comparing Judaism to other Religions, and disproving the other Religions. I heard it done by Rabbi Mechanic while in High School but I was interested in how he would do it, and he was just so much more comprehensive.

    I think he is speaking in the City…

    #703302
    WIY
    Member

    Sacrilege

    Yes that’s his specialty. He has lots of great shiurim on that topic as well as a public debate with a priest. He takes the guy apart. Its quite fascinating!

    I have listed to many of his shiurim and I find them all quite satisfying and inspiring.

    I wouldn’t shlep into the city for a shiur when I could listen to it online or download it in a few days.

    #703304
    Sacrilege
    Member

    WIY

    He mentioned the debate with the priest in this lecture.

    I’m the same way! I cant sit through lectures, I need to be doing something while I listen.

    #703305
    WIY
    Member

    Sacrilege

    Yeah he mentions the debate in some of his lectures. Its really out there because I don’t think its been done by anyone else.

    What I do sometimes to relax at home lateat night, Ill put on something comfy like pjs… gather a ton of junkfood and sit in a comfortable chair or couch and listen with my ipod while happily noshing like there’s no tomorrow. Lol.

    What I do other times is listen to a lecture while exercising, that way I get to exercise my physical and spiritual muscles at the same time. I used to think I “have to listen to music” when exercising but I found that I’m quite happy listening to a lecture.

    You should know I really gained a lot from listening to Torah lectures. I must have heard hundreds over the last year or 2. If you make it a habit to listen daily or a few times a week to a shiur you will become a changed person and it will make it easier to grow in yiddishkiet.

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