September 4, 2011 4:02 am at 4:02 am #599130
Ok y’all I have an issue with this- people think they can get a ‘quick fix’ to looking frum if they keep cholov yisroel!!! what about all the other halachos they’re neglegting??? tznius!!! loshon hora!!! movies!!! facebook!!! davening!!! i’m sorry but reb moshe feinstein z”tl ruled eating cholov stam is 100% OK!!!! and to all those responders – we know he himself kept cholov yisroel, but he was a gadol hador!!!! gadol hadors keep very strict stringencies for themselves that they would never impose on other people!!! i read a story in reb shlomo freifield’s book that he was trying to copy the davening practice of a great gadol. he tried, but didn’t succeed and ended up frustrated. but then he realized that he’s not a gadol hador yet, and he should do what’s right for him. So we do not have to keep cholov yisroel!!! So I will work on myself to be better person, be closer to Hashem, have better ein adam l’chaverio and when i have achieve true gadlus maybe i’ll think about buyign pashkez instead of hershey.September 4, 2011 5:36 am at 5:36 am #892103
You are what you eat!! I’m NOT judging you and I’m not saying that you are going against halacha, however whatever goes into your system effects the way you behave. If you are careful with this, then it will be much easier to be careful with bigger (more important) things..September 4, 2011 5:50 am at 5:50 am #892104
I have respect for those who used to eat Cholov Yisroel and decided to stop. For one who never ate it, its no big deal to continue not eating it, but once you started eating it or have been doing it for years or from birth its tough to stop and anyone who has deserves credit for it.September 4, 2011 5:52 am at 5:52 am #892105
what are you complaining about let people live the way they want why does it bother youSeptember 4, 2011 6:14 am at 6:14 am #892106
It bothers me Chizz bec instead of people deciding to work on bein adam l’chaverio during elul, they’re being cholov yisroel and think they are being so holy. when the reason we’re in galus is bec of the way we treat each other, not bec we’re eating hershey bars. get your priorities straight.September 4, 2011 6:18 am at 6:18 am #892107
Abba bar AristotleParticipant
Joseph is back
I agree with you. what do you think is the real solution?September 4, 2011 6:26 am at 6:26 am #892108
Why are they mutually exclusive?? A harmonious self will work on all fronts. Neglecting any is disharmonious and will leave one with a sense of incompleteness and being unfulfilled.September 4, 2011 6:31 am at 6:31 am #892109
Thank you Abba. The solution would be for all the people who take upon chlov yisroel during aseres yimei teshuva or elul, to take on something more meaningful like learning shmiras halashona and saying tehilim for the clal. And for the families who’s kids find it hard to be chlov yisroel to let their kids eat it. For people to train their kids that chlov stam is not TREIF. It should stop being our way of finding out how frum someone is.September 4, 2011 6:42 am at 6:42 am #892110
Nothing to do with being a Gadol Hador. Reb Moshe said that it is a Hetter but there is good reason to be Machmir. Not everyone took on his Hetter, either. When someone takes something upon himself, why does that eat you up? Although the Churban happened happened because of Sinas Chinam, how do you know that iyt is supposed to be our only focus? Many Sefarim say that our redemption will be in the Zechus of Torah. So let’s put more effort into learning more Torah.September 4, 2011 6:51 am at 6:51 am #892111
I used to say the same thing, that I should first work on other things more important, and then I’ll keep cholov yisroel. Then I realized that it was all just an excuse. So I decided to stop with cholov stam but I don’t look at cholov stam like it’s treif. It depends on what level you’re holding.September 4, 2011 6:59 am at 6:59 am #892112
If cholov stam makes someone happier about life and more inclined to thank Hahsem for all the awesome food, why stop eating it?? Why are poeple constantly looking to torture themselves???September 4, 2011 7:22 am at 7:22 am #892113
i think they are looking to get closer to Hashem… not “torture themselves”. Also, i think it is important to remember that a person must work on both- bien adam lemakom and bein adam lechaveiro— one without the other is not a full workout so to speak. However, what a person works on should not be yours or anyone’s business- it is their personal avodah in which they are working to get closer to Hashem, if they feel that the way for them to do it is through this medium then kol hakavod- they are being mekadesh shem shamayim ! good!September 4, 2011 7:27 am at 7:27 am #892114
isBack, is someone bothering you? Are we Mechuyav to tear down our Mechitzos because Reb Moshe Paskened that 10 Tefachim is technically OK?September 4, 2011 11:28 am at 11:28 am #892115
BTW at the end of his responsa Reb Moshe writes “and the GD fearing person shall be stringent”. If there is a time in the year we want to clue in to be a GD fearing person it probably is the time between Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur. In addition, whatever mystical quality is created by sticking to Cholov and Pas Yisroel probably affects the way we aspire in a spiritual sphere and be sticking to Cholov Yisroel during this time we may find ourselves pulled more to see ourselves as spiritual beings and make the serious changes in areas of Lashon Hara, davening, commitment to learning etc……September 4, 2011 2:20 pm at 2:20 pm #892116
I keep cy as a chumra b/c there were times I assumed something treif was chalav stam so now at least I assume something that’s chalav stam is cySeptember 4, 2011 2:40 pm at 2:40 pm #892117
first of all i dont understand you at all you think that you know batter then all my rabonim second and even you think you do know batter do you think i will listen to you before my ruv and anyway do you also think that r’moshe was right with the mchitsus he said that till the shoulder is inoghe and third doing things what is agienst the halocha is one thing and do bshite is another thing god send us down here to fight with the yitser hora but change a halucha bshite from my father this the first thing what is taking down our chinuchSeptember 4, 2011 2:50 pm at 2:50 pm #892118
HaLeiVi: No, but you’re not Mechuyav to boycott Shuls with a lower (but Kosher) Mechitzah either.September 4, 2011 2:52 pm at 2:52 pm #892119
Go fly a Kite. It bothers you that other people are machmir in certain areas. I am sure Yidden like to do good and try their best in every area. As a frum jew we must look for the good in us yidden to be a Malitz Tov for Klall Yisroel. Unfortunately we have enough Kateigers in the goyishe velt, we do not need it from our own ,LOOK AT THE GOOD OF KL”Y.September 4, 2011 3:38 pm at 3:38 pm #892120
To me this appears to be written by someone who has some underlying guilt and wants to hang on to one thing going against “cholov yisroel”. My question is does this person have the latest model phone and texts and is busy with “shmutzbook”(facebook) all day ,which is a waste of time and and a mode of destruction.
Reb Moshe is not with us for a while. Yes, he was a WOW of a person and we have to realize that some of the answers he gave was adapted to the times. Bashing something as Cholov Yisroel will not make you a better person the same way someone drinking only Cholov Yisroel but doing alot of other wrongdoings will make those wrongdoings okay.
It’s Chodesh Ellul…wake up to the real things important to a Torah Jew.September 4, 2011 3:43 pm at 3:43 pm #892121
am yisrael chaiParticipant
“I have respect for those who used to eat Cholov Yisroel and decided to stop.”
I’m assuming you meant the exact opposite?
Please keep in mind to be just as careful with what comes out of one’s mouth as what goes in…
and that Hashem considers bain adam l’chveiro important as well…September 4, 2011 4:53 pm at 4:53 pm #892122
ok eating cholov yisroel to some people is a chumra and to some ppl its like the diff between kosher and non kosher. in both cases these ppl r eating cholov yisroel to infact get closer to Hashem, thats basiaclly why we do everyhting in this world. if eating cholov yisroel helps them feel closer to Hashem and they feel its what they want and that its necessary then so be it. noe one should be doing anythign expcept prasiing them. and yes ofcourse thr going to b those ppl tht keep cholov yisroel for the wrong reasons but no1 has any place to judge them cuz we never know why people do what they do.September 4, 2011 5:14 pm at 5:14 pm #892123
I think that many people mistakenly assume some things about chumras. The most glaring of which is that chumras make one closer to Hashem. I don’t think that this is necessarily true. Chumras do not generate piety, nor do they make one more holy. Rather it is the reverse. A holier person who feels more fearful of heaven will take on a chumra to stay further away from sin. It doesn’t work both ways. In fact, taking on chumras itself is a very shaky situation. One really needs to be sure that he or she is taking it on because of a fear or love of Hashem, not because that’s what is in style. Personally, I am not so afraid of heaven (unfortunately) that I feel I should take on Cholov Yisroel. My fear of heaven wouldn’t drive me to do it, if I would do it, it would be because everyone else was, and it looks “bad” not to, which is the wrong reason.September 4, 2011 5:21 pm at 5:21 pm #892124
In fact, if one would be so into taking on chumras for themselves, I’m going to list a few here. On shabbos, due to a safek brachos (see the R Chaim in the second perek of psachim) one should not make a mezonos, for it may require a hamotzei on shabbos. Be makpid on the GRA who says that for kiddush bemakom seuda, one needs to have bread (which means no more kiddushes in shul unless you wash). Do not say the bircas hashacher (shelo asani goy, etc.) until immediately after you do the corresponding action (see Rambam Hilchot Brachot). Do not drink milk or milk products at all. (R Shachter does this, because its possible that most cows used for milking are treifos). Instead of waiting 72/34 minuets for shabbos to be over, wait 1/6 of the day. Don’t be makpid on any aruvin. As a result of not being makpid on aruvin, do not wear tzitus on shabbos (see ba’al hamor and ramban on the ba’al hamor in mesechet shabbos who holds like the tanna kamma on menachos 38a and rashi on mesachet eruvin 73b), assuming you don’t wear techailes. Be makpid on chadash/yashan.September 4, 2011 5:49 pm at 5:49 pm #892125
Are we Mechuyav to tear down our Mechitzos because Reb Moshe Paskened that 10 Tefachim is technically OK?
No, but we are mechuyav not to give tochacha to people who use 10 tefach mechitzos.September 4, 2011 6:00 pm at 6:00 pm #892126
I have Davened in shuls that have those mini machitza things 2 or 3 times. I can tell you that the teens were looking at each other over the machitza the whole Davening I wanted to throw up.September 4, 2011 6:17 pm at 6:17 pm #892127
R’ MOshe was never mattir mechitzos even bdi’eved less than 57 inches. Lechatchila 66.September 4, 2011 6:24 pm at 6:24 pm #892128
Rav Moshe says mechitza must be minimum 18 tefachim (66 inches). Igros Moshe 1:40, 1:42, O.C. 4:31.September 4, 2011 7:45 pm at 7:45 pm #892129
BTW R’ Moshe, ZTL, never used the term, “cholov stam”. He was specifically writing about commercially available milk which he called “cholov hacomapnies”.September 4, 2011 8:08 pm at 8:08 pm #892130
WIY: Your Gastrointestinal tract has my sympathies.September 4, 2011 8:14 pm at 8:14 pm #892131
ItcheSrulik: We probably don’t need to give tochacha at all now adays anyway. In Arachin (around daf 17) the gemara says that tochacha doesn’t apply in the times of the amoraim (except one big tzadik), so kal vachomer how much more so in our times. Aside from that, the gemara later says anivus shelo lishma (i.e. humility, which would constitute not giving tochacha at all) is better than tochacha lishma, meaning that faking anivus (which will ultimately lead to anivus; see the first chapter in rambam hilchot de’ot) is better than tochacha.September 4, 2011 8:19 pm at 8:19 pm #892132
i dont know why people have to rip on others who keep cholov yisroel. they want to. theyre not telling you to. leave them alone. equal rights- let them eat what they want. dont get involved in hteir diet. and you can be all holy in elul in whatever way you want; so can they. get a life.September 4, 2011 8:27 pm at 8:27 pm #892133
Funny that the point of this thread is that what is realy importent is bein adam lachaveiro and not talkink L”H, but in the same time you make it sound that those who are makpid on c”y are not makpid on bein adam lachaveiro. How is that for not talking l”h?
And BTW aldough I have great Yiras Hakovod for R’ Moshe he is still not my poisek. If my rebbis thought me not to drink cholov stam then I”m not aloud to do so despite the gadlos of R’ Moshe.September 4, 2011 10:25 pm at 10:25 pm #892134
Midwesterner: It is not clear exactly what Rav Moshe holds by the mechitzos. He says 18 Tefachim in the Igros but (according to a Rabbi of the Shul) was personally Machshir that Shul’s Mechitza which was about 40 inches tall.September 4, 2011 10:49 pm at 10:49 pm #892135
He never was machsir 40″.September 5, 2011 12:41 am at 12:41 am #892136
Abe: I have seen the Mechitza and know what the Rabbi (a Talmid Muvhak of Rav Moshe and known for his honesty, among other things) claimed. I do not know what possible extenuating circumstances there could have been, but I do believe that that Mechitza was Kosher.September 5, 2011 10:37 am at 10:37 am #892137
Sam: is there any reason we should believe an anonymous poster in the name of an equally anonymous Rabbi to contradict what is in a written and printed Teshuva???September 5, 2011 11:51 am at 11:51 am #892138
Who poriginated the term “chalav stam”?
R” Moshe was never mattir “chalav stam”, he paskened that the government protocols and regulations satisfied the requirement that we be sure no other milk besides cows milk is in the bottle. R” Moshe paskened on “chalav she’ll companies” in the USA that are subject to these regulations.September 5, 2011 2:17 pm at 2:17 pm #892139
Hello: I guess not. I’m debating naming the Shul and where it is though. I’m not sure if that is a proper thing to do in here though.
(I would never argue that R’ Moshe was Mattir such a Mechitza for the general public. He published what he published for a very good reason. I only defend that one Mechitza that R’ Moshe was Machshir personally.)September 5, 2011 6:32 pm at 6:32 pm #892140
I presume you are referring to Rabbi Tendler’s Shul in Monsey?September 5, 2011 7:53 pm at 7:53 pm #892141
“RABBAIM – BTW at the end of his responsa Reb Moshe writes “and the GD fearing person shall be stringent”.”
Rav Moshe Feinstein ZT’L never wrote that.September 6, 2011 12:13 am at 12:13 am #892142
Hello: I am not. I was not even aware that there was some issue there.September 6, 2011 11:43 am at 11:43 am #892143
ok open a new mehitza thread; this ones doomedSeptember 6, 2011 3:42 pm at 3:42 pm #892144
” It bothers me Chizz bec instead of people deciding to work on bein adam l’chaverio during elul, they’re being cholov yisroel and think they are being so holy. when the reason we’re in galus is bec of the way we treat each other, not bec we’re eating hershey bars. get your priorities straight. “
a) the bottom line is that they are working to make themselves better. we are not to judge how or what someone should work on. This reminds me of a friend who was so obsessed with keeping her house clean that she would use a sponge every shabbos to clean her dishes. she knew ti was wrong adn couldnt help it. one day she decided to stop usinga sponge on shabbos. when she told me, i was so happy for her. if she would’ve told someone else, they would not understand the significance.
b)the reason we’re in galus as you so accurately state is because of the way (or lack of) we treat each other. lets start by judging others favorably…September 6, 2011 5:42 pm at 5:42 pm #892145
i pointedly disagree with this post. duh. if the S”A says to be makpid on pas akum and these areas during AY”T then by extension being makpid on CY the whole elul seems appropriate. why the hating on fellow jews. trollSeptember 6, 2011 6:24 pm at 6:24 pm #892146
I’m not sure how it follows that if one should be stringent on one thing during the AY”T, that one should be stringent on another thing, the entire elul. Be that as it may, I’m all for people always trying to grow closer to hashem, and if chalav yisrael for 40 days or all days is how one tries to do so, kul hakavod.September 6, 2011 6:31 pm at 6:31 pm #892147
all i meant was that its not all that far-fetched, and certainly not something that deserves a rant. i didnt mean to give it quasi-halachic staus. just saying its in the spirit.September 6, 2011 8:12 pm at 8:12 pm #892148
Hello99: private letter ruling?
That’s a joke, btw.September 6, 2011 10:09 pm at 10:09 pm #892149
squeak: I can’t say I get itSeptember 6, 2011 10:46 pm at 10:46 pm #892150
Hello99: google private letter ruling.September 6, 2011 11:05 pm at 11:05 pm #892151
thanks, got it
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.