Going off the Derech

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  • #1182285
    aries2756
    Participant

    WOW, you need to do the right thing no matter how you perceive his reaction. He looked embarrassed? Was he embarrassed from his friends that his Mom said hello or from his Mom that she finally saw his friends? You still need to be the adult and the smart one at that. Stop being afraid of your child and his reactions. As you said you have no idea why he is so angry. Ignore him when he is angry. At that time just walk away from him and give him space. It is as if his head and heart is filled with the garbage of the streets he needs time to unwind from that garbage before he can be approached. So give him that time and don’t approach him until he has softened. In all honesty it sounds like he is drunk.

    And again I say this especially since he still has the ability to be embarrassed, write, write, write! Let him read your thoughts and feelings in the privacy of his own room where no one can see his reactions. He will read it as many times as he needs to. It will have more of an effect than the spoken word, without the confrontation. On his skewered mind right now he has to show rebellion and bravado, but he does not have to show anything as he reads in the privacy of his room at his own discretion.

    Best wishes for a Shanah Tova, wishing you Bracha, Mazel , Koch and most importantanly tons of patience.

    #1182286
    S1
    Member

    I no that one thing I’m going 2 be davening 4 this rosh hashana is 4 Hashem 2 bring bak all those lost souls. Thank G -d I stopped myself b4 I went deeper down. Like I said he has 2 want 2 change. From my experience I relized how corrupted teens r so I will be davening 4 ur son and 4 all those lost teens out there.

    Imartza Hashem this year e/o shld relize G -d and the geula shld come.

    I wish u all a good gebentched yar and bracha and hatzlocha in e/t that u do!!!!

    #1182287
    write or wrong
    Participant

    caarpediiem-thanks so much for your insight and suggestions. Perhaps, from the perspective of one who was OTD, you are right in your assessment of things. But from the perspective of the parents, I find it nearly impossible to sit idly by while my son falls further and further. It’s not just a fall from yiddishkeit, it is a transition into a derelict, one who curses, smokes, stays out all night and (most recently, he admitted) experiments with drugs. He has already prepared us about getting piercings, and socializing with girls. At this point, I would consider anything that could help, including co-parenting. The only thing is, that I was hoping the family atmosphere of our home would help trigger positive feelings. I’m still very loving to my son (when he’s in a normal mood), and try not to react when he’s in one of his angry moods. As much as he is angry with us, I don’t think we were horrible parents and keep hoping that bc we’re not a dysfunctional family, then hopefully (any minute now…?) he’ll snap out of it. I know it’s wishful thinking, but I don’t think he went down this path bc of the home. Would co-parenting be indicated in a functional family? I googled Areivim and they are based in NY, we live in Israel. We have been trying to do Twisted Parenting, and while we agree with the principles behind it, we find it extremely difficult to do consistently. I appreciate your post, and found it to be very helpful. Feel free to offer more suggestions..

    #1182288
    write or wrong
    Participant

    aries2756-not really sure what was embarrassing to him, perhaps it was both. I will try to make it a point to write, but do you really think it will have such an impact? I think he will probably read it once, then throw it in the garbage. He’s not the sentimental type. Thanks for the bracha, patience is exactly what I need, especially if caarpediiem is correct, that it will take years for him to (maybe) find his way back. I was hoping that by Hanukah he’d have his act together, but it doesn’t look like we’re even close..

    #1182289
    write or wrong
    Participant

    S1-That’s the answer…if only my son could see his chevra differently, not as the tsaddikim he thinks they are. Baruch Hashem, you were able to see it early. Right now, my son doesn’t want to change, but thanks for your tefillah..

    #1182290
    Chloqueen
    Member

    Maybe u Shld try someone not hu he nos like go to someone totally different cos like I know if I wld spk to my teachers I wld be so cringed out I wldnt say anything but go to spk to someone different like hu can relate it makes it easier to spk to someone hu u don’t no at all

    #1182291
    aries2756
    Participant

    WOW, you are caught up in expectation that are not rational. Your son is on a long dark journey, and you are trying to drag him onto a time line. It isn’t going to work. You just ave to hang on to your hat because you are infor a long rough road. You are going to have to buckle down the hatches as they say as you ride the ways through it. You can neither predict nor determine what he is feeling nor thinking. The son you knew is buried within this new creature. You really don’t know this new reincarnation. It is sad but it is the truth. Even more sad is that those who have experience with this can better predict the steps and what he needs than you can and we don’t even know him.

    So whether you think he will throw out your notes, keep writing I can almost guarantee that he won’t and even if he does he still needs them. If he pulls away when you hug him, keep hugging because he needs it and wants it, he just doesn’t want you to know it. When he is feeling low and lonely and his friends are not around, he will need reassurance and that is when he will take out your notes and reread theme or replay them in his mind becausethatiswhen he needs toenvelophimself with your love. You still remain his security blanket whether he wants to admit it or not.

    #1182293
    write or wrong
    Participant

    Chloqueen-we’re trying to figure out all the time who he can speak to that will help him

    Aries2756-you make sense. I really appreciate your posts. They’re very insightful. And poetic.

    #1182294

    Hi write or wrong

    Ive read alot of the posts and PG Hashem should give you and your family the koach to get through this. There is an unbelievable programme in EY http://www.kesherisrael.com/staff . i would highly recommend it. My other recommendation is to send your son on a holiday. even go with him. frum communities in EY and even USA are very intense and extremely polarised. Either your part of a community or you’re not. Im from South Africa and would highly recommend spending time on holiday here. The communities are not polarised and there are varying levels of yiddishkeit, from totally irreligious (but proudly Jewish) to chareidi and yeshivish. Maybe something that your son could relate to? There is a real emisdikke approach to yiddishkeit here and a real ba’al teshuva movement – with people who are searching for the emis. if youre interested i could help

    Besuros tovos

    #1182295

    Hi WOW, ive been reading this post all summer and didnt want to comment till i finished.

    I am also a teenager and you cannot imagine how painful it is to read your posts just getting more depressing by the week. First i want to say Hashem only gives nisyonos to ppl who can overcome them so that means you can. We dont know His reasoning but He has one, Rabbi YY Rubinstien has an amazing shuir on “Why Ba Things Happen to Good People.”

    Second, i consider myself a teen who went off and came back on. No i didnt actually do anything drastic but i feel emotionally i was off the derech and just steps away from actually going off publiclly.

    What saved me? I know ppl have said it quite a bit, but an appreciations. It has to come on its own. I never really hated Torah and Yiddishkiet i just didnt really care that much….

    What happened? We had a speaker in school, and he was just different. He was hyserical yet inspiring, fun and full of life yet so full of knowledge, and best of all he has a Scottish accent!

    I was obsessed and when i got a babysitting oppurtunity at a Shabbaton he was at i ran for it, though i didnnt care much about the speech part. And from there it just kept going up. I spoke to him. I was in another world! Seventh heaven!! And i just wanted to be close with him…so he gave me his email and later his phone numer. I started out with dumb question but then they started getting real.

    I bought his book, just to say i did, never intending to read it. And then i did. And i realized the beauty of Torag, and he has anoter book! So i read it!!!! And guess what there are more books like that! And more rabbanim on Torah Anytime!

    So from Feb 25 till today ive been climbing this mountain, day by day. It didnt happen overnight. I just finally deleted my non jewish music from my phone last week. Today i installed webchaver on my phone. A couple months ago i stopped talking to te guys.

    It took a while but it only happened when i realized how much i love Torah and how beautiful Judaism is. That spark needs to be ignited and theres no way to do it for someone else. It has to come on its own and thats why its so hard for you, just watching this happen with nothing for you to do. I have friends who are really off and u get depressed talking to them. My friend told me she cant talk to me because shes scared to be inspired. See thats the problem, shes not looking for more so she wont get anymore. He has to open up to judaism amd from there it will get better. I get my story is a little weird but for evry peron the connection is different and it will come. From this thread i see how common it is to come back, so i guess he just has to go through this Hashem has His reasons.

    I davened on rosh hashana for all our lost souls and hopefully Hashem will answer our tfillos.

    #1182296
    write or wrong
    Participant

    ganse-knacker-thanks for the suggestions and your offer to help. You are right about the communities being very polarized, maybe that’s part of the problem. Right now, my son wouldn’t consider traveling anywhere. But we have considered moving to a different neighborhood. A lot of other things are also at stake, so we are evaluating the pros and cons right now, and haven’t yet come to a decision.

    Ultimateskier-I have that shiur by Rabbi Rubinstein, and have listened to it a few times. I’m so happy for you that you found someone who could teach you the beauty of Torah! Maybe as parents, somehow, the message doesn’t always come across to our children even though we feel it inside. I would be interested to know who the speaker was and the name of his book. You are right that the spark has to be ignited, and that it has to come on its own. I’m just so afraid that my son has pushed away all the possible shlichim who might have had this positive influence, and traded them in for bad “friendships”. You hit the nail on the head when you said ‘he has to open up to Judaism, and from there it will get better’. Well, if Rosh Hashanah didn’t inspire him, what will? I will keep praying nonetheless. Thanks for your insight,

    #1182297
    interjection
    Participant

    I’ve been thinking back to my teenage years and from what I remember from those years, the more I felt my parents trying to convince me to see the beauty, the more I saw the discrepancies in Judaism and the more I thought their love of me was dependent on how I reflected their lifestyle to their friends.

    We all go through life and make mistakes and ultimately determine how we want to build our future. We find a spouse and it comes as a tremendous delight that this man or woman has come up with the same views on life and happiness. Then we have children and we take it for granted that of the billions of people in the world, we only found one spouse with such similar principles. We expect our children to be reflections of ourselves. After all, with all the mistakes we made, we KNOW the life we’ve chosen makes us happier than any other path and we think our children will choose the same. Our ultimate goal is that our children be happy and successful. We know what works for us, because we made the mistakes, and it becomes painful for parents to watch their children do things that the child may later consider to be mistakes.

    Children need independence and respect. They need to know that they were not deceived into their life. Some children are more trusting and just do because they are told. Others feel they are duped into their lives, and the more others try to stuff them into a mold or cover their eyes, the more they wonder what it is they are being shielded from. Just as we needed to try everything, and were given that chance, these kids need this chance.

    He will absolutely regret many of the choices he is now making, but the more he feels your expectations, the more he will feel compelled to go out of his way to defy your expectations in the more blatant way possible. He needs space to find himself. You need to be the adult strictly in the area of safety (it would help you to know which drugs are dangerous) but he also needs to feel you respect him as a human being to make his own life choices (no matter how dumb his choices end up being).

    #1182298
    S1
    Member

    Every day it’s getting harder 2 be a good person. I was becoming so good ,but I started 2 fall again. I don’t no we’re 2 turn nothing is helping me I feel like giving up. My friends r trying 2 encourage me ,but it’s not good enuf. If s/o here cld help me id really appreciate it. Thanx

    #1182299
    write or wrong
    Participant

    interjection-I agree with everything you said. But truthfully, my husband and I have pulled back a great deal. We act towards him the same, in his ripped blue jeans, long hair, smoking etc than we did in his black suit and hat. Yet he continues to do things that are ‘defiant’. I can definitely understand needing space to ‘find oneself’, but how far does one have to travel? Down the path of drugs? Crime (Chas v’Shalom)? There should be certain limits that are irrespective of Yiddishkeit, like “it’s illegal!”. You’re right the more he feels our expectations, the further he will feel compelled to travel. So we are basically pretty quiet about his lifestyle. I just hope the road he travels…brings him back home…

    #1182300
    write or wrong
    Participant

    S1-Your post concerns me. First of all, you must get in touch with a Rabbi/Rebbetzin that you can speak to one on one. You need more than encouragement, you need to believe in yourself. What do you mean you were ‘becoming so good”? You ARE good, you are intrinsically good and nothing can change that. Perhaps you are confused, or don’t feel strong enough to fight the yetser hara. If you like to read, there are wonderful books that can help strengthen your emunah and bitachon. Whenever we feel challenged, for whatever reason, ie a child OTD, a sick family member etc, we MUST strengthen our emunah, bc ultimately, it is a test for US. I found the following books to be very helpful:

    1. Don’t Give Up by Rabbi Leib Pinter

    2. Trust Me by Rabbi Eliezer Parkoff

    3. Chizuk by Rabbi Eliezer Parkoff

    #1182301

    The book is called “on the derech” by rabbi yy rubinstein, and its a question answer book, answering basic questions of judaism. “how do we know we are right and theyre wrong” “can God really forgive the worst thing ive done?” “do rabbis ever make mistakes?”

    He has another book called “thats life!” which i got after this one and its about how your life is a total of your relationship with Hashem and Yourself and others and he goes through personal and famous short storiees bringing out different aspects of each relationship.

    #1182302
    aries2756
    Participant

    S1- Your post made me so sad? What is your definition of a “good” person? And how do you measure it?

    #1182303
    S1
    Member

    Wow -I have a rabbi I want 2 speak 2 ( my friends sis. Gave me his number) but I no that my parents wld get mad if they find out and they’ll relize that ive been doing stuff. Thanx that was very encouraging.

    Aries2756 -um idk ….I gess if they fully believe in G -d ,don’t talk 2 boys ,shomer ….I keep shabboss but I’ve not been good w/ the rest. I think my challenges rite now r fully believing in G -d and brakeing up w/ my bf and not talk 2 boys. I’ve tried 2 do it but I keep on talking 2 them agen …..especially wen im feeling down Wich is a lot lately.

    #1182304
    S1
    Member

    How do I strengthen my emunah if I don’t really believe???? I used 2 strongly believe but then I started asking 2 much questions Wich brought me 2 not really believing.

    #1182305

    SI- i know exactly what you mean. So i stopped talking to guys like fifty times before actually stopping. We fail and we fail and we fail but rabbi yy sed “failing doesnt make you a failure, its failing to try again.”

    Your situation with being scared about talking to a rabbi is actually also like mine. I didnt want my parents to know either for the same reason, but if you can hide guys why cant you hide talking to a rav? Thts what i did, i mean now they know but they didnt know for literally three months that i spoke to him.

    Rabbis are the best so talk to him! Im begging!!!

    #1182306
    write or wrong
    Participant

    S1-Read ‘Permission to Believe” by Rabbi Keleman and “On Judaism” by Emanuel Feldman.

    #1182307
    aries2756
    Participant

    SI, firstly, talking to boys if you are a girl is normal, it is just not what WE do because of obvious reasons. But it is still a normal thing. It is a hormonal thing and we have to acknowledge that. Hashem made us this way in preparation for marriage and having a normal relationship in marriage. So the first thing we need to realize and acknowledge is that young women having an interest in young men, and young men having an interest in young women is normal and healthy. It would be more unnatural and frightening if the opposite were true and obviously more to worry about. So first lets acknowledge that you are a healthy female and your body is not betraying you.

    Secondly, lets understand why we “choose” NOT to get involved with the opposite sex before marriage. Marriage is very sacred and very, very special to us. It is not something that we take lightly and not something as disposable as many seem to think it is. A frum marriage is really a lifelong commitment. What we believe is a bashert is truly a soulmate, truly the missing part of our own soul and our own body. WE are NOT fully complete until we find that missing piece. When we find our bashert we become ONE with him/her and we are then complete as a whole human being. That is the secret and the beauty of the Frum Jewish marriage.

    In this coming together as one unit, we don’t want to bring any ghosts or doubts into that relationship. We bring our own pure souls and beings to the other. We don’t want neither the man nor the woman to wonder or worry who was there before, who touched this neshoma who belongs to me, who is a part of me, who was my missing piece and made me whole. Who does s/he think of when we are not together, who does s/he remember, who does s/he compare me to? These are the ghosts that put space and obstacles between you. Without these ghosts you become as close as two people could possibly be, so close that only breathe itself can come between you. Can you imagine that? Can you understand that?

    What does one mean when they refer to purity as “the driven snow”? How beautiful is the fallen snow when there is no footprints in it? What happens when people start to walk through it, is it still so beautiful or does the landscape change? Does it hold the same magic?

    When we understand that we are normal having an interest in the opposite sex and yet we also understand that we are being loyal to our future spouse by not allowing ourselves to give in to that interest and that desire, we hold ourselves up to a higher standard. Yes, I like boys, I am supposed to like boys, Hashem made be that way B”H. But talking to boys is not my ultimate goal. Marrying a fine exceptional Man who respects me and will not bring unimportant past relationships into OUR MARRIAGE is more important, and I respect MY future husband and will not bring unimportant past relationships to haunt him into our future marriage either.

    I hope this makes some sense to you and will help you with your struggle.

    The other issue about talking to a Rav or perhaps a Rebbetzin. Why would your family have a problem with that? Any time a person speaks to a Rav or Rebbetzin they are mechazek. Why would your family have a problem with you being mechazek?

    SI, personally I don’t find anything that you are doing bad. As I said, they are normal, just not for our circles. So maybe you need to redefine what you are torturing yourself with in order to make better decisions for yourself. Maybe you need to leave the guilt behind and just work on yourself one step at a time. I am here for you in any capacity if you feel I can help you.

    #1182308
    S1
    Member

    Ultimateskier -k thanx that was very encouraging. Jst stop talking 2 boys agen 4 like the millionth time but I doubt I won’t start agen. Idk mby I will talk 2 a rabbi. Not sure yet.

    Wow -thanx ill check it up.

    Aries2756 -k I no ur rite ….but it’s x accepted in r community. And I no that my parents wld be mad if they new anything. And once u start talking 2 boys ,u end up not bring shomer. I used 2 think that I would never kiss a boy b4 I’m married but these things Jst happen.

    #1182309
    S1
    Member

    *being

    #1182310
    aries2756
    Participant

    S1, they do happen but that doesn’t mean they have to continue to happen. Just because you strike out it doesn’t mean you can’t hit a homerun.

    Everyone makes mistakes and everyone falls in some way or another, no one is perfect. That doesn’t mean that there is no room for improvement or that mistake has to ruin your life and there is no turning back. Each day brings with it new opportunities and new options. Each day brings with it new choices. So what will it be today, will you make better choices for yourself? What about tomorrow if you weren’t able to do all that you wanted to do today, try again tomorrow.

    Maybe you are expected to much too soon. Maybe you are setting the bar too high. Choose small attainable and measurable goals. Choose something that is not too big to accomplish and feel good about yourself when you conquer it. Then you can move on to one more thing and each goal or challenge that you meet will help you and encourage you to move on to the next. Hatzlocha.

    #1182311
    S1
    Member

    K thanx!!!! That was very encouraging and helpful!!!!

    #1182313
    write or wrong
    Participant

    Well, we had a bit of a shock this Shabbos, although it didn’t last. As my son was going out Friday afternoon, I noticed he was wearing Tsitsit! So I asked him why he was wearing tsitsit? He said, he wanted to see how it looks with jeans. However, when he came home, he promptly took it off bc it was ‘itching’ him. The other interesting development was that he said, on Rosh Hashanah he decided he would try not to be mechalel Shabbos. I’m trying not to get too excited….which was easy bc he was extremely angry with us all Shabbos.

    #1182314
    YW Band
    Member

    Just letting you guys know that this post was written in the latest “Country Yossi”! It sure is a hot topic and needs to be dealt with sechel. Whoever suffers from it, I wish them hatzlacha raba and Hashem should answer your tefillos ASAP and give you the strength and courage to go through the hardship. Gmar chasima Tova!

    #1182315
    hudi
    Participant

    Just a reminder about how a teenager’s brain works – sometimes if you notice them doing something “good” that they don’t usually do or haven’t done in a while, they may hesitate to do it again…they may purposely not do something if you tell them to do it.

    #1182316
    S1
    Member

    Wow -k that’s a lot that he wanted 2 keep rosh hashana ….and the fact that he wanted u 2 no that.

    #1182317

    WOW- the fact that he told you that is important. A lot of times i feel when i do stuff which are steps in the right direction my parents often dont realize how hard and how amazing it is for me and just keep wanting more. I often feel like Yes i know they care so much about me so they want me to do the best but like they cant see whats going on inside my head and why its a big deal for a teen to stop doing x but maybe shes still struggling with y…so i usually dont tell my parents my newest developments, if its rxternal maybe theyll notice…

    #1182318
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    I need a translator to read S1 posts’ I need them translated from Text Speak, to english

    #1182319
    S1
    Member

    Haha k is that a compliment;) j.k. J.k. Wat do u not understand????

    #1182320
    write or wrong
    Participant

    YW Band-what did they write? I tried to google it bc I’m not familiar with this magazine, but the latest “current issue” is from 2010?

    Hudi-you’re right. I was thinking that right after I did it. I should probably have ignored it, but I was too excited inside. My kids were too. Hopefully, we will get another chance, and next time I won’t say a thing..

    #1182321
    shein
    Member

    wow: CY simply printed the first 35 or so posts from this thread. Every month they pick one CR thread and reprint it in full or in part. (Without adding anything of their own.)

    #1182322
    aries2756
    Participant

    WOW, I would like to suggest something to you or rather ask you something? How do you think you could have handled that situation differently? Why was it necessary to ask him WHY he was wearing the tzisis? You might not have realized it at the time, but by making that comment he might have felt that you were challenging him. It might have been better to just smile or ignore it and wait to see what develops. Obviously he might have heard something in Yeshiva that might have touched him.

    When he said that he would try not to be mechalel Shabbos, you could have then responded “I respect you for trying to make that commitment and wish you true Hatzlocha with that.” He might have been angry all Shabbos for various reasons. Maybe you didn’t react the way he wanted you too, maybe he was angry with himself for telling you. At any rate, you need to chill out, take two deep breathes before responding and always respond with respect. That is the ultimate key, showing love and respect. That is the only way to reach him.

    It is very telling that he even said he would try and even let you know. In his own way he was trying to reach out to you. This is a baby step but still a step. Don’t take it lightly and don’t miss the opportunity to show appreciate and admire him for it. Don’t overdo it but still pay attention and try to give him the reaction and response that he needs.

    #1182323
    write or wrong
    Participant

    S1/Ultimateskier-I’m not sure he really wanted us to know it bc it came about in a round about way (and maybe it’s not even true??). At the Shabbos table, he started to hit a younger brother. When asked why he was hitting him, he said it was bc he dropped challah crumbs in the salad. So I said, why should he get hit for that? He said, bc he deserves it. So I said (I couldn’t resist), if that’s what he deserves for dropping challah crumbs into the salad, what must someone deserve if he is being mechalel Shabbos? That’s when he said he doesn’t mechalel Shabbos. He said that he decided on Rosh Hashanah he would try to stop. Ya think it was genuine?

    #1182324
    aries2756
    Participant

    WOW, patience is the key. You will have to wait and see if he was genuine or not. Obviously there is a war going on inside of him. The yetzer tov is working over time to pull him away from the yetzer rah. You will have to be patient to see who will win out.

    In the mean time, just ask him to stop hitting his siblings. Let him know that it is just not acceptable.

    #1182325

    Hmmm thats a tough one… Im no expert and i dont know your son but it can be geniune. Alot of times im doing something and my parents/teachers dont know and then they say something like that (a comment on something wrong im doing) and i just want to rub it jn their faced like “oh ya im so bad….well i just stopped soung xyz” it takes a lot to stop myself but i dont really like saying stuff like that since all that matters is that Hashem knows and i usually dont say anything… But i know the feeling and it can very well be sincere.

    Just daven it is and try not to make comments like tht (and yeah its hard- even for myself amonsgt friends i have to be careful not to make preachy comments because i know how hard it is to hear them)

    #1182326
    write or wrong
    Participant

    aries2756/ultimateskier-I know I should have been quiet, or at least I shouldn’t have made an accusing comment. But should I tell him that I appreciate that he’s wearing tsitsit? It happened again today, he asked me to iron it for him, so I nonchalantly ironed it like I iron all the other clothes. I know I went a bit overboard by getting so excited the other day, but we have a simcha in a few months, and I am desperate for him to wear black and white (Yes! I admit that I’d like him to wear black and white…even if it’s just for the pictures. Is that wrong?) So tisitsit is a step in the right direction, not to mention, the right spiritual direction. I’m trying not to discuss it, however, especially since he’s already commented that he’ll be wearing his blue jeans and t-shirt. And the truth is, I am preparing myself for the jeans scenario, since he most probably will not give us the satisfaction…

    #1182327

    Dont jump on it too quickly…give it a few more occurances before figuring out what this really means… People go up and down all the time, let him figure this out himself and who knows what can happen in a few months? It can change a lot while at the same time just stay static. It could be the awe of the yomin naarim is beginning to rub off, its pretty hard to ignore Hashem this time of year but that all starts to fade later on…

    Dont set any high expactations because then you’re setting yourself upfor disappointment…

    #1182328
    write or wrong
    Participant

    shein-what’s the point of CY doing that? Do they discuss the topic afterwards?

    #1182329
    hudi
    Participant

    write or wrong – if you decide to request that he wear black and white (I’m still under debate if you should) do not make it a religious thing. Say that it’s a family celebration and people dress up, so he should wear a suit…leave it at that. Don’t insist on black and white. He’s trying to express himself differently now. If he only has black and white in his closet, then that’s what he’ll wear if he decides to dress up.

    #1182330
    aries2756
    Participant

    WOW, I don’t think you should comment, just do as he asks. You can smile of course, wish him a good day, or just say “of course, my pleasure”. If you make a big deal it will back fire. If it is his decision it might last. If you make seem like he is doing it to please you, or he is back on YOUR track, it might back fire. As I said before it might be an influence of one of his Rebbeim or someone at the school. It might be something the entire group is trying together, so just watch and see without letting your heart catch in your throat. Step back and just be a bystander while he finds his footing.

    As far as the simcha is concerned don’t discuss it with him until and day or two before. You will be surprised what he might decide on his own. A few days before the simcha you might ask him if he needs his suit pressed or altered for the simcha or if he needs a new shirt. Are you planning on having the men wear matching ties, or coordinating ties? If so, why not ask him for help choosing the ties for the men.

    If the men are not matching in any way and he doesn’t want to wear a white shirt try to compromise, see if he will agree to a light blue or light grey shirt with a nice tie. It is NOT worth fighting over. The fact that he is there and participating in the simcha is the important thing. What he wears in NOT that important do don’t focus on that. You can tell him that it is a “formal” affair so dressing down would not be appropriate.

    #1182331
    write or wrong
    Participant

    aries2756-thanks for the advice. I will try to keep quiet and let things go at their own pace. As far as the simcha goes, I did mention to him a while ago how nice it would be to dress up for his brother’s Bar Mitzvah to m’sameach him, after all, his brother dressed up for his Bar Mitzvah. But he gave a firm no. I had then asked him to at least consider it just for the pictures, and then he can change his clothes afterwards. After all, the pictures are forever. He looked like he would think about it, but I guess I won’t know until the last minute. For now, I’ll let it go.

    Tsom Kal to all, and G’mar Chatima Tovah!

    #1182332
    S1
    Member

    Wow -I agree w/ ultimateskier ….everyone has there ups and downs. There’s some days wen I get in a bad mood and don’t even want 2 be religious and then there’s days were I’m so happy that I start realizing how awesome G -d made my life and I start improving. Every days different. Jst got 2 hope that he’ll have more good days;)

    Have a good, easy fast and may G -d forgive u 4 e/t!!!! Have a good gebentched yar!!!!;)

    #1182333
    write or wrong
    Participant

    I hope everyone had an easy fast!

    Well, we seem to be on a roller coaster. Erev YK, my son went out with his friends, ripped blue jeans and all, and stayed out all night. I was hoping he might feel something, but the intensity of the day seemed to slip right by him. Until Neilah. Suddenly, he showed up in Shul, black jeans and a white shirt, and davened Neilah!! I was so excited! I couldn’t believe it! I didn’t realize how much I miss seeing him in black and white. I know it sounds superficial, but it’s the way I’m used to seeing him, and that look has been gone for about 5 months. Anyway, my simcha was short lived, bc Motzei YK, he took everything off, reverted back to a t-shirt, and stayed out all night again with his friends, angry as ever. I’m not sure what to make of this?

    #1182334
    hudi
    Participant

    It’s a positive sign. He’s going through an internal struggle and testing you at the same time…continue to keep up the positive attitude with him….as you did before. You need to show him that you love him all the time, no matter how he dresses, not just when he shows some “improvement.”

    #1182335
    jewish source
    Participant

    Hashem should help

    He was on my mind a whole day and every day till we see a yeshua IYH

    #1182336
    write or wrong
    Participant

    jewish source- thanks.

    Hudi-You are right that he is going through an internal struggle.

    But we seem to be having a problem getting the message across how much we love him. No matter what we do, say, or give him, he feels like we hate him. I can’t even ask him if he’d like to eat without him getting furious with me for ‘nudging him’. Sometimes I feel like we lost, and there’s nothing we can do to help him. As much as you would think he loves his ‘new life’, since he always says how much he hated his yeshiva life, he actually now admitted that he’s not happy with his chevra-life either. But ‘it’s better than nothing’ he said. When I said to him, that if he’s not happy there either, then maybe he should give himself other options, and a chance at new friendships, to which he got FURIOUS! I’m just going to take a back seat for now, it seems whatever we do just rocks the boat…

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