Going off the Derech

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  • #1182767

    ShiraTobala
    Member

    Tell him to talk to a Rav. Have him talk to other boys in the same situation.

    #1182768

    ShiraTobala
    Member

    Maybe tell him that he can talk to girls, watch TV and listen to not jewish music. Maybe send him to Waterbury Yeshiva. A bunch of boys went there and went back on the derech.

    #1182769

    N.G
    Member

    I think Waterbury Yeshiva would be good for him.

    #1182770

    write or wrong
    Participant

    a mamin-I didn’t say anything negative about the Satmar community, nor any other community. I don’t have any personal connection to them, so I’m not familiar with them too much. It could be that this man just had exposure to the wrong types of people within the Satmar community. My son will tell you the same thing about the Haredim. Instead of focusing on the various individuals who hurt him, he generalizes his hatred to the Haredi world. And I think, as you mentioned, it also has to do with the various weaknesses and personality of the person who was hurt. For some it may feel like a scratch, and for others it feels like major surgery…

    #1182771

    ShiraTobala
    Member

    You should talk to your son about going to Waterbury Yeshiva and talk to the Rabbi to get him to go as soon as possible. They accepted someone in the middle of this year who is your sons age and now he is back on the derech. Let me know what happens. Hope it works. It did for a lot of boys b”h.

    #1182772

    a mamin
    Participant

    wow,I will tell you once again, I pray for you and your son, may you see the light at the end of this long tunnel bekuriv!!

    #1182773

    write or wrong
    Participant

    ShiraTobala-Thanks…but my son absolutely, positively does not want a yeshiva. Also, we live in Israel and we’re not looking to send him to the States. But I checked it out online and it looks good.

    A mamin-Amen, thank-you…and may Hashem answer your prayers!

    #1182774

    ShiraTobala
    Member

    Maybe try NCSY

    #1182775

    ShiraTobala
    Member

    Waterbury yeshiva is really for kiruv. Also, try all the options even if it’s in the USA. You never know…

    #1182776

    ShiraTobala
    Member

    Maybe he’ll be interested in going to Waterbury yeshiva just because it’s in the USA. Boys who were exactly like him now, are very frum. Give him the option. Hope it works! Let me know what happens!

    #1182777

    aries2756
    Participant

    Waterbury Yeshiva is not a Kiruv Yeshiva per se they might help some kids with issues, but it is a regular yeshiva, maybe one that cares more.

    As far as the Satmar community is concerned, there re many individuals who are very decent people, but the community in general have lowed the “mafia” to gain control and to bully them into doing their bidding and to keep quiet about their criminal activity against young and old alike. People are afraid to tell the emeshurts and as a community came forward to protect and elf end the menuval Webershmutz who was sentenced today to 103 years. The family of the victim was so harassed nd intimidated the police moved them out of their home in Williamsburg. Is this how Hashem wants Yidden to conduct themselves? Is this how one would describe ood Jews?

    I disagree 100% with you. Don’t look to blame the child. Children don’t choose to go off the derech, they are pushed and shoved off! Answer a child’s questions and don’t feed him nonsense. And most of all don’t be a hypocrite and you will see less and less children going off. Protect abusers instead of children and you are still shoving kids off the derech, you are displaying hypocrisy in its strongest form! A child who is unhappy might choose to live with another family or not be as strict as his own family. A child that goes to such an extreme as to turn their backs on the entire religion was shoved out the door.

    #1182778

    write or wrong
    Participant

    ShiraTobala-we presnted him with all the options, and in some way, we’re lucky he’s doing anything at all. He really wanted to do nothing. He’s completely against any type of yeshiva, no matter where it is. I’m hoping Hashem will send him the right shlichim to bring him back, wherever he is.

    #1182779

    ShiraTobala
    Member

    Write or Wrong: What is he doing? Is it helping him somewhat go back on the derech?

    #1182780

    ThePurpleOne
    Member

    biig problem..

    one of my good frends is starting to go off the derech and doesnt believe theirs a god running the world.. what on earth shud i do w her? she spoke to a lady rebetzin who just pushed her further off cuz x have answers for her.. sry if im dsrupting the thread but any advice?

    #1182781

    write or wrong
    Participant

    ShiraTobala-No. That’s not really the focus of the school. Like I said, it’s not a yeshiva, and the school doesn’t really do kiruv. It’s a technological school where he can learn a trade. If he ever goes back to the derech, I really don’t see it happening in the near future, unfortunately.

    purplicious-you have to find the right person for her to speak to. Who does she respect? Who does she trust? Try to make her a connection, and offer to go with her. Tell her not to do anything drastic until you’ve had a chance to put her in touch with someone who CAN answer her questions. I don’t know where you live, but what about Arachim? The Jewish Renaissance Center? I live in Israel, so I’m not too familiar with resources in the States anymore.

    #1182782

    aries2756
    Participant

    Purplicious, it sounds like she might be experiencing some form of depression, so that might have to be addressed as well. When someone is at such a low point, that they feel such hefkeirus, “i dont believe that there is a G-d running this world” it is more than “I have a problem with Religion”. It sounds more like she feels hopeless. There is something to this story, either something that has happened to her, or too many things that are bothering her that she can’t deal with or cope with. So maybe you would be better off finding her a good Frum therapist who she can unburden and vent to, to first get things into perspective. She might even need some medication for a while to get over the hump.

    One needs to recognize the difference between hopelessness and depression and a person who is angry with Hashem and Yiddishkiet. It is NOT the same thing. It is so totally overwhelming to feel hopeless and feel like Hashem has deserted us or given up on us. And that is so totally different that a person choosing to turn their back on Hashem.

    #1182783

    ThePurpleOne
    Member

    ya i even think shes deppressed and she admits it herself.. two days ago i made a huge step out of my comfort zone and asked a kiruv rabbi who my fam knows if she cud speak to him even tho she x wana.. he is a therapist who works w at risk teens and was otd himself but came bak on and dus kiruv now.. she x even wana speak to him but i was on the fone w her and he answered sum of her question which i had to ask cuz she x wana talk!! she wants to talk to a girl bt they x hav answers.. shes not even open to listeing and i think shes startign to influenece me now so i mite havta stop beng frenz w her for my own good… and she wants to commit suicide now.. ahh complicated..

    #1182784

    ThePurpleOne
    Member

    also her parents suspect shes going places at night cuz we have play practise at skool till 8 30 now and come home rlly late.. her parents r extremly over protective so thats prob the reason shes going otd..

    #1182785

    aries2756
    Participant

    I am afraid that your friend has more issues than she is willing to share and it doesn’t have anything to do with religion but more of what has happened to her what her experiences have been either with her family, friends or even strangers. If she has threatened or spoken about suicide and you have a guidance counselor in school then maybe you should discuss it with her. You don’t necessarily have to say who your friend is right away, just let the guidance counselor know that you are over your head in this friendship and that you are very worried about your friend. Ask her what she suggests you do, and who does she think she should reveal this information to.

    Your other option is to call Hatzala or to speak to a Hatzala member in your neighborhood and let them know who this girl is and that she has spoken to you about suicide. Maybe they can get a Hatzola member in her neighborhood to speak to her.

    #1182786

    superme
    Member

    A question also: I know someone who is going through a lot in school she is being hurt and torn apart. She doesn’t know what to do with her self her questions about Hashem and who is he r we the true nation etc r tough and not getting answers from anyone. She was suspended now back in school and keeps getting physically sick bec she’s stressed out. I have to admit that theschool treats her like dirt. What shouldbedone?

    #1182787

    ThePurpleOne
    Member

    superme-

    ur lucky cuz she at least wants answers!! mayb call a rabbi u know who works w at risk teens and has experiance.. if shes willing then she cud call him.. my frend x even wana get answers..

    aries-

    thanx for u wise words but i dont think shes killing herself yet.. just saying it.. and she prob has deppression.. im just guna hold back on our frendshi cuz i x want her to pull me down and shes not even trying 2 get her life back in order.. i havta force her..

    #1182788

    superme
    Member

    Purplicious- I don’t know a rav to call who did you speak with please give me a name and numbe R thmks

    #1182789

    ThePurpleOne
    Member

    i dont think the mods will let that thru plus the person i spoke w mite not want that… ahh i dont know what to do…hes guna know im givng out his number then.. is there anyone else u cud send her too? if theres rlly noone else mayb ill give his number..

    #1182790

    superme
    Member

    I really need someone who is good because if and only if (it might be hard) I get her to go toa rav that’s it if he’s not good then forget it shell never go to someone thts y I wnt a person you have..

    #1182792

    daniela
    Member

    Nobody can give answers to these people because there really are no answers. Yes someone may have nice words which may or may not touch someone’s heart, but the truth is, we don’t know about G-d, about suffering, we don’t have answers. Then again there are different sort of questions, such as, should we go to the movies, should we do this or eat that, etc. To those, we do know the answers, and in great detail, and even if we don’t, it’s easy to ask a question and be answered and then do as we are told. If someone has decided they do not want to live like that, and are seeking to rationalize it intellectually, say by questioning G-d or similar philosophical questions (which, if genuine, are no reason to loosen observance) you can not help nor can any rabbi in the world. We are taught to avoid such people.

    #1182794

    ThePurpleOne
    Member

    ummm so why shud she believe n blind faith, daniella?

    i rlly dont like the answer u just gave..

    superme-

    i wud ttly give it 2 u bt 1st of all idk if itll even help it x help my frend bt i x think she was even listenning.. but do u understand why i x wana give his #? hes guna know i gave it and he knows my name..

    #1182795

    aries2756
    Participant

    Supreme, if you live in Brooklyn, contact Rav Dovid Goldwasser. He should be able to help you and help your friend. Purplicious, there are answers to every question one might have in the the Torah. No individual will have any or all answers on the spot, but the best answer to anyone who is asking is “I don’t know the answer to that right now, but maybe we can research that together, or work on that to find someone who can answer that for us.” Because there is always an answer for every question and a reason for everything we do. Not everyone is smart enough or educated enough to know and understand the why’s.

    One more thing, personally I don’t take suicide threats lightly. I was involved in too many suicide attempts and rescues to do so. So again, if you know someone in Hatzolah please pass along the information and see if they can help your friend. This way you can back away knowing that you at least handing over the responsibility to someone else.

    #1182796

    ThePurpleOne
    Member

    k thanx aries cuz i x wana give out this rabbis number… i know there are answers!! trust me i believe in Hashem… i got her on the fone w the rabbi on a conference call and she x even open her mouth so i just asked some of the questions.. she heard some answers but x believeing them..

    i x tell hatzala wat r they guna do?? keep cameras on her? i think shes going otd for emotional reasons and answers x help her.. also i think she rlly has deppression.. she sed that watcing bad movies “relax her”.. really they get her to pretend shes not living her life for a few minutes..

    #1182797

    aries2756
    Participant

    Hatzolah members are trained to react to both emotional and physical medical conditions. Volunteers are very caring and if one you speak to does not know what to do, all they have to do is get another more experienced member in their location to deal with it. They are very discreet and are obliged to keep an oath of confidentiality.

    So the advantages of speaking to a Hatzolah member is that if you can get someone who lives near her, he can meet up with her and just tell her that he is a hatzolah member and she can talk to him or call him any time she feels depressed or suicidal and he will listen to her, or he can give her the number of a help line she can call so she won’t feel alone and will always have someone to listen to her that will be completely anonymous. In that way she won’t feel that she has to hold everything inside and she won’t have to tell anyone who she is. But the fact that she is so depressed and wants to disassociate herself from reality really makes me worry. Maybe he can give her the local Hatzola number and they can send someone to meet her in the Pizza store or wherever without lights and sirens and then they can determine if she needs to go to the hospital or not, or if they can recommend someone for her to talk to. Also there are paramedics in Hatzolah and in many neighborhoods there are even doctors who volunteer for Hatzola.

    Purplicious, everyone needs a support system. By making such a connection for her you are giving her a lifeline. You are telling your friend “I love you and I care about you, but your problems and issues are way over my head and way more than someone my age knows how to deal with. This is my suggestion…Hatzolah members are bound by confidentiality. If you reach out to them you will know that you have some form of support and maybe they can direct you to someone that can help you or help you figure out how to find answers to your questions. They have tons of resources. At the very least it gives you a lifeline to hold on to so I know that you are connected to someone who will care about you and will keep you safe and alive.” The entire Hatzola organization is about saving lives. So again I would suggest that you research this and see if it would be an option for your friend. Do you know anyone in Hatzolah?

    #1182798

    superme
    Member

    Okay first of all to purplicious can you at least give me his name so I can research him? Or if you feel comfortable to ask him if you can give his name and number to someone….

    .arues2756- what exactly does rabbi goldwasser deal with? Will he do It over the phone without anyone giving names? (she will not let if she has to give name) what is his number? the questions are all about how do we know we arethe chosen nation and what do you mean a creatorthat we can’t see etc. Is there also a book I can get for these type of question. And to both of you, yes suicide is something not to be taken lightly but what will hatzalah do lock a person in te hospital? Purplicious- you might want toget her to a therapist if you think she might have depression!! That might be able to solve a lot f things. Depression is something that can’t be left untreated!

    #1182799

    ThePurpleOne
    Member

    ya i do.. a few ppl on my block.. but #1 theyr all men and she refuses to speak to anyone besides for a lady whos “normal and understands me”… i dont even know what 2 do w her!!! this IS way over my head and im just guna back out of the situation.. im still there for her always but cant discuss this topic w her cuz shes guna pull me down. where i live hatzala is all 19 yr old guys who luv their lights and arnt guna help her at all… do u have a number of a female lady who wud have the answers she needs? ill just txt her the # and shes either guna call her or not but im not pushing her any more.. shes deppressed beyond and i hope she x commit suicide.. but she x wana talk to anyone!!! ahhh… this is too much for me to handle.. and i x betray her trust and tell the whole hatazla…

    #1182800

    ThePurpleOne
    Member

    aries-

    do u know of a female hatzala group in brklyn that she cud speak to over the fone? i x live in brklyn but i think theyrs a female part of hatzala there.. if she x want help i x try anymore…

    #1182801

    ShiraTobala
    Member

    write or wrong – did u try ncsy

    #1182802

    aries2756
    Participant

    I believe there are female Hatzolah members in Staten Island. There are also suicide help lines that are both Jewish and Non-Jewish. Rabbi Goldwasser has a website with a tab how you can reach him http://www.rabbidovidgoldwasser.com. So you can try that. He has a lot of experience with kids at risk as does Rabbi Horowitz who you can reach through Project Yes or his website Rabbihorowitz.com. Either one can direct you to a female that can help her.

    #1182803

    ThePurpleOne
    Member

    ok thanx aries…

    ill try to contact them and if they give me a female ill give her her # but if she x call them i cant force her.. then lets say she commits suicide is it my fault??

    #1182804

    superme
    Member

    Purplicious- one thing that I stand by when I try to deal with the person I know is “she comes to me because she trusts me and needs my help he doesn’t open up to anyone else let’s c what I can do”

    Aries2756- aren’t hatzalah obligated to rush a person to hatzalah of they hear te person say they want to commit suicide ort die?! Another thing what do these 2 websites do? Does anyone know if rabbi Zechariah Wallerstein is good?

    Purplicious- how did u find your person? Will you be able togive meth name so icangoogle it or ask him if ou can give it out? Sorry to pressure you but he needs help!!

    #1182805

    superme
    Member

    Yossi613- do you also mentor teenage girls? This girl had 3 bad experiences talking to 3 different lady therapists. I need a man for her.

    Adams- what are some good books that you recommend from rabbi twerski for teenage girls starting/ drifting to OTD?

    #1182806

    ThePurpleOne
    Member

    superme-

    its a he or she ur frend? ya bt my frend doesnt wana help herself so im sorta givin up..

    oh yaaa hes rlly good he ALWAYS says in his lectures ( i think im his biggest fan!!)abt stories of when he deals w this stuff.. he even has a skl for at risk grls i think!! def speak to him and ask if this girl cud call him.. dus ur frend wana talk to someone at least??

    and the person i spoke to w my frend actually works w someone i know rllllly well… and i x ask him im sooo sorry.. im utterly mortified.. mayb if its the last resort.. first try rabbi wallerstein k?

    #1182807

    ThePurpleOne
    Member

    superme-

    so 1st pls try either rabbi dovid goldwasser or rabbi wallerstein? im in the exact opposite sitch cuz she wants a lady not a man..

    #1182808

    superme
    Member

    Okay purplicious and yes she is my friend an inside your friend might really want someone to talk to but is scared of different things…it took a while but this is what got out of her and yes it’s still a whole fighting match to get her to talk to someone. The only problem woth rabbi wallerstein is he’s very busy but if this person is comfortable woth a person shell need them available often at least for now. Okay I see you really don’t want to give me the name I’m going to try searching for someone but quick question is your person male or female?

    #1182809

    ThePurpleOne
    Member

    male. thats the whole problem cuz my frend wants a female and urs wants a male. was the female that spoke to ur frend good? cuz then mayb my frend shud speak to her..

    #1182810

    ShiraTobala
    Member

    Is she a teen? bc i have friends who r like that…

    #1182811

    ThePurpleOne
    Member

    ya shes a teen.. frends who r like wat? do u have a rabbi who wud be good for supermes frend to talk to? and a female for my frend?

    #1182812

    ShiraTobala
    Member

    try ncsy

    #1182813

    superme
    Member

    Yes my friend is a teen. The girls she found were very very negative and not understanding. It’s a known thing that girlswork better with boys and vice versa….now I’m really curious to know who your male person is. The last female person she spoke to lied to her and caused her somemore problems. So now after 3 bad female stories I finally got her to agree to talk to a man but that’s iy if this guy is not good then she won’t see anyoneelse do youget why I’m so scaredand “pushing you” purplicious? Someone did give me a rebbetzien who you can call privately but she doesn’t want a women so idk maye she’s good for u…

    #1182814

    ShiraTobala
    Member

    I know a bunch of peeps in her situation. Should I talk to her and get my friends to talk to her? There good girls… There also teens… btw i don’t know you and im not posting my name online… it’s dangerous… ive learnt my lesson….

    #1182815

    ThePurpleOne
    Member

    so how abt u give me the ladies name and #? shud i ask this rabbi if i cud give his # to s/o? 1st of all are u a hi skool aged girl teen in the ny area bais yaakov and frum? cuz then were similer enuf and ill say its one of my frends.. idk!!!

    #1182817

    ShiraTobala
    Member

    no i don’t live there but, im a teen in high school

    #1182818

    superme
    Member

    Yes purplicios exactly and I think were inthe same situation and weird q what grade you in? um yeh that will be great if you can ask him if you can give number out or at least his name etc.

    ST- no it’s nt smart to give names on here? But what happend to you u ave ur name over?? Um well who are you meaning a teen or adult?? And what is ncsy?

    Um purplicious ok how should I give you the name and number? Willthe mods (who are the mods? What do they do?) let it go through?

    #1182819

    superme
    Member

    Think purplicious asked me that question…

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