February 2, 2013 9:58 pm at 9:58 pm #1182878
aries2756, are you still here?
These Shabbos visits are quite a strain, and maybe I need some advice as to how to get through them. The only way to keep the peace, it seems, is for me and my husband to be mute, perhaps with only some nods and smiles. Then, after doing all his laundry and providing endless snacks, no real food mind you, only sugar-filled treats, we are to then hand over some spending money, cigarette money, or any other money he thinks he might need for things that might come up. Now, I can tell you, my husband and I are not playing our roles terribly well. Sometimes we do speak, and then usually a small war breaks out in my kitchen. This is bc usually we say things that don’t enforce the fantasy that everything he is doing is absolutely correct! For instance, he is planning to go to a friend’s wedding on Tue, so he’s not planning to go to school the whole week! Now doesn’t that make perfect sense? So when I questioned why he had to miss the whole week bc of it, he became enraged at me. So instead of having only a strained Shabbos,I can probably look forward to a strained week! Any advice?February 3, 2013 3:16 pm at 3:16 pm #1182879
WOW, when confronted with such a situation, I would probably have asked, Is that what your friend would want you to do? Does he know that you are taking off an entire week from your new routine because of his wedding? That probably would NOT make him happy and that is too much responsibility to put on his shoulders. The point of going to someone’s wedding is to be mesameach chasan and Kallah. I am sure at this point your friend is happy for you that you are being productive. Taking off a week from school “for him” would not make him happy, it would probably make him feel guilty and that’s not fair to him. I’m just saying…
As far as laundry and stuff is concerned. I already explained to you about teaching him to do his own and teaching him responsibility. And the money you give him does not have to be endless, you can give him an allowance. If he needs more, he should really learn how to speak to you with derech eretz. You can also explain to him that Respect is a two way street. Of course you must always preface it with your love is unconditional, but if he wants to be RESEPECTed he will have to also learn how to be respectful of others.February 4, 2013 12:38 pm at 12:38 pm #1182880
aries2756-great advice, but it won’t work on my son. It’s his friend’s brother who’s getting married, and my son’s friend is al hapanim, and doesn’t have the maturity to think the way you mentioned. I’m starting to think that maturity is a big part of this problem..February 4, 2013 4:46 pm at 4:46 pm #1182881
WOW, maturity is always part of the problem and that is why you always have to be the wise one. They will never understand the rationality or the truth and someone has to be the voice of reason. You can only lead him to water, but you can’t make him drink. But you still have to lead him to water, that is your job. You can’t tell him what to do, but you still must guide him in a way that is offering him information without it sounding like mussar.
So by letting him know that his decision is not fair to the person he is supposed to make happy, might make the light bulb over his head ignite. If not in this instance, then at least in the next one. On the other hand, as long as he is home you can say “As long as your home, let me show you how to do your own laundry, it is high time you learned how”.February 5, 2013 2:12 am at 2:12 am #1182882
His school allows him to take off a week? Did he ask permission? Hoping he won’t get kicked out.February 5, 2013 4:13 am at 4:13 am #1182883
Bear, that’s what happens when the page is long enough for all the posts but not for the reply box. It’s a bug.February 5, 2013 11:46 am at 11:46 am #1182884
Imaofthree-those were exactly my concerns. According to my son, he says they gave him permission. Although it doesn’t sound right, it might be true bc of another incident that happened recently. According to the rules of the school, they wanted my son to cut his hair, but he refused. Instead of kicking him out, they actually bent the rules for him bc they like the way he studies! Go figure…February 5, 2013 12:43 pm at 12:43 pm #1182885
Imaofthree-If thiskid is OTD u thunk he really cares about wat Gus skwl says??February 6, 2013 2:38 am at 2:38 am #1182886
write or wrong-
is there someone guiding u thru every single bump on the path? now i was just activly involved in a smiler situation and understand that maybe you should speak to a phycologist and learn what to say in commen sitautions. there are minor phycology methods (for ex not complimenting and making a big deal when he dus something good) that go a looong way…
i know that as a teenager if i was ever off the derech and was making small baby steps to come back on i wud want parents who looked like they werent so into it..
do u get my point?February 6, 2013 3:29 am at 3:29 am #1182887
Purpilicous- how r u?? U ran away welcome back!! How’s this girl and rabbi..?February 6, 2013 3:55 am at 3:55 am #1182888
thanx 4 asking.. everythings BH under control and my principles r truly amazing.. and gess what?? im bak to being frends w this girl!! i never thought it wud happen…shes still deppreseed but its all under control now thank god..
hows ur situation doing??February 6, 2013 5:29 am at 5:29 am #1182889
its names of ppl for ur frend to talk to.. gluck!! keep us posted.. 🙂February 6, 2013 7:17 am at 7:17 am #1182890
Thank you, and/but I wanted to know how ur frend is doingFebruary 6, 2013 11:21 pm at 11:21 pm #1182891
k so shes rlly mad that the skl told her parents… so she x wana go home last nt so she came to my house then her mom got another call from dean of students so she had 2 go home and she wanted 2 come to me also tonite but her mom doesnt let.. which makes her even more madFebruary 7, 2013 6:08 am at 6:08 am #1182892
Ths school called my husband, bc they are pretty upset that no one showed up this week for school. (They all took off this week for the wedding!). They are calling a meeting to determine who’s serious and who’s not, then they will decide who can stay/what to do with each student. I told my husband that we shouldn’t discuss it with our son, instead, we should let him feel the consequences of his choices…February 7, 2013 4:51 pm at 4:51 pm #1182893
WOW, Way to go! That is a smart move. That is the only way these kids are going to take life seriously. The school should have called each one of the kids instead of the parents. Each of the kids have their own cell phones, and each one should have been contacted and asked why they were NOT in school! This school knows who their students are and what they are dealing with. Calling their parents instead of calling the kids was a cop out on their part. They should have done both!February 7, 2013 6:24 pm at 6:24 pm #1182894
This is what I was afraid of, write or wrong. I hope they will still keep him in the program. If not, your son will hopefully have learned from that experience.February 8, 2013 6:38 am at 6:38 am #1182895
aries2756/Imaofthree-Apparently they are going to meet with all the kids who didn’t show up, next week and decide what to do. I also hope they keep him in the program, bc the alternative is coming home, and staying out all night with his friends again. This has been a challenging week….February 8, 2013 12:53 pm at 12:53 pm #1182896
Purple- thnxs and no things r tough for her veryFebruary 8, 2013 3:16 pm at 3:16 pm #1182897
WOW, whatever happens, this is a wake up call to the kids. They chose this school because of its attitude and lax views. However, there are rules and obligations no matter where you go in life and one needs to be accountable. They want to be treated as adults and they want to be in control of their own choices. Well then, with that comes the responsibility of being accountable and responsible for those choices. Parents are NOT responsible to clean up the messes they make due to those choices. When one makes a choice they also choose the rewards or the consequence that comes along with that choice. It is up to them to think through where those choices will lead them.February 9, 2013 9:13 pm at 9:13 pm #1182898
aries2756-you are right. But I’m so worried that either they will throw my son out of the school, or he will quit. He just told me that most of the kids aren’t going back, some are taking another few days off, and some are quitting! I don’t think he has the self confidence to do what’s good for him in spite of his friends. And it’s true, he has to suffer the consequences of his choices, yet he seems content to go wherever ‘the wind blows’, without any real motivation to achieve any particular goal. I hope I’m wrong..February 10, 2013 1:18 am at 1:18 am #1182899
WOW, that is just another sign of their immaturity! They don’t like to be accountable for their actions so they will just quit? Well that certainly is a sign of maturity and wise choices isn’t it? And who will pay the School what they agreed to pay when they signed up? Ask him that? Didn’t he sign an agreement? Ask him about the agreement he signed? Is his signature and his word worth nothing? Did he and his friends work hard to get into this school and think that once they did THEY would take over and be making the rules? What exactly did they expect would happen there? And then there is the issue of the Chassan and Kallah who will nebech feel they are the cause of this trouble.
So now the question remains what can a parent do? So the simplest question to ask might be “Does it make sense to quit when you worked so hard to get in? Why the need to drop out when things get messy? Real life is full of “mess” how you handle it is what makes all the difference in the world, the man you are, the man you become, the person you have to live with all your life.
Sometimes in life you have to decide when to follow your own path and do what’s best for you, that’s how one becomes a leader and NOT a follower”.February 10, 2013 4:59 am at 4:59 am #1182900
either way dont tell the chosson if he gets kicked out of skool..February 11, 2013 6:20 am at 6:20 am #1182903
aries2756-I have a matsav with my son…February 11, 2013 4:13 pm at 4:13 pm #1182904
WOW, you can only say things from your heart. He will hear it and receive it in the way he chooses.February 11, 2013 6:15 pm at 6:15 pm #1182905
WOW, you can’t be afraid to speak to your own child. He might not react as you would like him to at first. But he will repeat in his head what you have said when he is not with you, and eventually it will seep in if it is said in the right way with the right meaning and intention.February 11, 2013 7:55 pm at 7:55 pm #1182906
aries2756-something else has come up, but I don’t want to post it. I wanted to ‘talk’ to you, but the mods wouldn’t let my request come through….February 11, 2013 9:09 pm at 9:09 pm #1182907
I hope you can find someone in Israel to speak to in real life. Hang in there.February 11, 2013 10:01 pm at 10:01 pm #1182909
Write or wrong- were do u live……trying o see if know someone for u…. Hope wtvr came up is ok…February 11, 2013 11:07 pm at 11:07 pm #1182910
she lives in isreal..
if he truly wants answers on “how we know Hashem exists and judiasms the true religion” then i can give u someone in the us’s name to call.. if u want it.. either way gluck and hatzlacha and keep on davening cuz im davening 4 him:)February 11, 2013 11:25 pm at 11:25 pm #1182911
WOW – I haven’t posted here, but I really feel for you. I have been following your situation all along. I have a 15yo son and know that I could easily be in your shoes. I have felt that I have so much in common from you – being an American living here in EY, with older kids and trying to integrate and negotiate our lives in the Israeli environment. Anyway, b’hatzlacha!February 11, 2013 11:31 pm at 11:31 pm #1182912
Purpleone- I neeeeeed the name and number of that person ho can answer those questions!!! And oh I don’t know a/o in Isreal hmmm let me think…February 11, 2013 11:35 pm at 11:35 pm #1182913
she cud call someone in the u.s. if she wants too… mods? can i post it and ull privately email superme his name then she cud look uo his # online?February 12, 2013 12:25 am at 12:25 am #1182915
I hav toswitch my email I gave them wrong one…February 12, 2013 1:03 pm at 1:03 pm #1182917
aries2756,Imaofthree, Superme, ThePurpleOne, Nechomah-thanks for your support. Unfortunately for us in Israel, there are not as many organizations/people who have real PROFESSIONAL experience/knowledge in dealing with this issue as you have in NY…February 12, 2013 3:19 pm at 3:19 pm #1182918
WOW, I sent you a way to contact me via Avi. Please use it as needed. We both want the best for you and your son and although we use different methods we have the utmost respect for each other and the work that we each do. You can cc him in the emails to get his perspective on the issues or we can discuss it privately whichever way you prefer. I hope this helps you.February 12, 2013 7:25 pm at 7:25 pm #1182919
The purple one – k ready tell them to send it to me…..thanksFebruary 12, 2013 10:52 pm at 10:52 pm #1182921
i tried posting it.. mods it x go thru?February 15, 2013 2:46 am at 2:46 am #1182922
btw i found out my frends having issues w making frends.. now that she finally told me (put up a strong front b4) i can def try 2 help her.. bt that means that her threats r just a cry for help and not extremely serious, right? like now we know theres not any seriouser issues..thanx so much..February 15, 2013 3:09 am at 3:09 am #1182924
What did ijust say I didn’t get it
Contact information cannot be posted.February 15, 2013 3:21 am at 3:21 am #1182925
nopeFebruary 15, 2013 4:43 am at 4:43 am #1182926
MODS SO PLEASE EMAIL THE NUMBER TO ME OTS OF A RABBI I NNEED ROONPWWHPHE IS AN HIS NUMBER!!
We’ve already taken this request to the Editor. We can’t help you with this.February 15, 2013 3:38 pm at 3:38 pm #1182927
look it up onlineFebruary 16, 2013 11:37 pm at 11:37 pm #1182930
I just re-read an article that said, “One year or two years in the off-the derech lifestyle pretty much guarantees a point of no return.” Do you think this is true? We are getting close to the 1 year mark where my son started to hang out with a ‘bad’ crowd, which eventually resulted in him not wanting to finish school. I know the sooner they come back, the better, but is there really a point of no return?February 17, 2013 12:29 am at 12:29 am #1182931
ABSLOUTLEY NOT!!!!! NEVER GICE UP HOPE EVER!!! WHOEVER SAID THAT IS WRONG THERE’S NO RULE OR THING THAR AFTER TWO YEARS THERE NO HOPE GOD FORBID SOMEONE I KNOW CAME BACK AFTER 7 YEARS BELIVE IT OR NOT AND THE BEST THING WAS HIS PARENTS WELCOMED HIM BACK OPEN WITH OPEN HANDS NO YELLING REBUKING CRITCIZIM ETC JUST LIKE HE WAS AWAY IN CAMP FOR A COUPLEOF YEARS!!!!! HATZLAHA AND NEVERRRRR GIVE UP HOME EVERRRR!!!!!
????? ???February 17, 2013 1:23 am at 1:23 am #1182932
Write or Wrong, did the article mention any kind of proof of such a finding? I don’t think it’s true. Many people who were off the derech came back. Why torture yourself with reading such an article?February 17, 2013 3:35 am at 3:35 am #1182933
I didn’t read that article but I’ve seen the numbers. The 1-2 years only starts after the person going otd is already an adult. The numbers for otd teenagers vary. In fact, most of my friends who were otd as teenagers are now frum and happily married. Good luck!February 17, 2013 3:49 am at 3:49 am #1182934
Y wkd u say such a stupid thing now immune how this mother feels think before speak where’s ur brainsFebruary 17, 2013 7:07 am at 7:07 am #1182935
ya i agree prob more w adults.. teens r very immature and dont know wat theyr doing w life yet!! isnt thr a quote- young w a pliable mind? rem it from somwhere.. pls dont worry!! hes still young..February 17, 2013 8:52 am at 8:52 am #1182936
“I just re-read an article that said, “One year or two years in the off-the derech lifestyle pretty much guarantees a point of no return.” Do you think this is true? We are getting close to the 1 year mark where my son started to hang out with a ‘bad’ crowd, which eventually resulted in him not wanting to finish school. I know the sooner they come back, the better, but is there really a point of no return?”
That’s a nice theory but not true in the overwhelming majority of cases. Kids can be off for four to five years and still usually come back. Just keep doing what you’re doing and it WILL work out eventually. He’s still 17 and immature enough to not think too much about the consequences of his choices. He needs to grow up before you can expect more from him. He may or may not live the same hashkafa as the way he was raised but he will choose to live a life as a normal accomplishing adult, almost definitely within a frum framework.
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