Going off the Derech

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    MDG-shira- interjection..

    you are all so correct. I also had ‘shul issues’ and now my boys will not go daven with my dh..

    then dad gets angry why they dont go with him.. and then we start the ‘blame game’.

    some go daven in different places at the right time-early enough in the morn.. others daven shachris at home and go out for mussaf.. and maybe they dont even get to the shul.

    others dont make it home for the se’uda.

    write or wrong

    MDG-I’ve told him that movies aren’t real life and that he’s better off watching cartoons so that he wouldn’t make the mistake of thinking it’s real. But you can’t tell a teenager anything. They think they know better.

    I hope I’ll pass the test.


    one other thing. Has anyone heard of ‘Yeshiva Shalom Rav’?

    this is a yeshiva in Zfas for ‘been thru it’ teenagers..

    movies,drugs, dysfunctional and abusive homes and everything else.

    they hav shiurim.. play.. plant.. build..they keep them busy.

    this may be an idea for some teenager ‘here’.

    English speaking!

    write or wrong

    mom12-thanks for commenting. I have mixed feelings about these types of yeshivas. On the one hand, maybe my son would like it better bc it’s low/no pressure. On the other hand, he doesn’t come from a dysfunctional family B’H, and part of me feels he doesn’t belong there. Maybe I’m wrong to think this way. Some of the kids he hangs out with in the street come from high risk families, and they have little to no relationship with their parents. I always thought perhaps, part of the solution would be for him to connect with a ‘successful’ yeshiva kid. I’m also afraid of exposing him to the few things he hasn’t done yet. If there was a yeshiva for kids who are struggling with the system, who need space and yet support, I’d be very interested. I just hope he would be too…

    write or wrong

    lephi aniyus daati

    1. They are not his ‘friends’ and that is not lashon hara!

    2. He is angry and you are upset, that does not sound like a situation which is going to progress very far emotionally. The religious aspect of this situation is taphel to the emotional aspect. Therefore it is more important to address the emotional aspect of the situation currently. The missing ingredient is simchah.

    3. It does not sound like you can directly affect your son’s feelings currently.

    4. Your son has been turned off by religion so religion is not the answer to turning him back on again. Neither is benevolent parenting (making him his favourite foods etc.) a complete answer becuase this still maintains the parental aspect. You need to find something which you can do just for fun and that has no religious connotation at all and not involve your son directly in but which can be a subject for discussion.

    5. Your son’s future lies not in his connection to Yiddishkeit directly but in his connection to Yiddishkeit through you. If you create a channel for this connection the other problems will resolve themselves.

    Feel free to ignore all the above 🙂


    WOW- I understand you .I felt the same way bec our family is BH not dysfunctional. basically though they are all out of the box and that is their common denominator..

    yes they are exposed to more ‘experienced’ guys but who said they were not associating with them on the streets of whereever you live.

    In williamsburg Brooklyn, R’ Yoel Roth also has a loose learning yeshiva and those that want to learn more join that shiur..

    they sing to Hashem and do other ehrliche non-learning activities.

    Definitely troubled kids, but a thousand times better than the ones in Zfas..


    I dont think these children wake up one day and decide not to be frum and blame everything on religion. If anyone has seen Bill Gates speak about giving a vaccine to people that will make them despise religion. ( check it out on you tube ) Unfortunately , this is one of the side effects that we see from vaccination. It may sound far fetched, but know this is true. Vaccines do cause chemical inbalances in the brain and do lots of harm. The insert itself sayss it very clearly. So parents, do your research and dont yell at people who dont vaccinate anymore when they have issues with their kids. They are doing the right thing for their child since they saw the dark side of vaccination.

    I actually did help someone to become frum again( someone that was mechalel shabbos and ate treif, ) with supplements, which got the brain to function again, so ther is definately hope for these kids, you just have to know where to look.

    write or wrong

    pcoz-good suggestion, trying to find neutral activities that are fun. Just hope he’ll go along.

    mom12- I need something in Israel.

    chance-I agree, leaving religion is not something that happens suddenly. Hopefully ,my son will never eat treif.


    chance- why must children be vaccinated to get into school.

    its a major hassle if one chooses not to vaccinate.

    WOW- there was another place in Israel just cant remember the name of the Rabbi right now. as soon as i find out I post.

    write or wrong

    Thanks mom12.

    Wishing everyone a Good Shabbos…..


    To mom -12 you dont have to vaccinate your kids to get into school. its the law that you can get a waiver. I send them a religious waiver, and dont vaccinate anymore. There are many people waking up to the vaccine problems, but its usually once their child is damaged.

    We are told we must vaccinate , since its a money making business. If anyone understands the connections between the fda and the vacine industry , understands the corruption in our country.


    write or wrong

    justThink-you are right, it’s just that I don’t really have a connection to the modern community. Communities here are pretty separate, and even if there were some modern families in the neighborhood, for some reason, that’s not the type of kids my son would connect to right now. He feels comfortable with the angry kids who are rejecting yiddishkeit. So sad.


    I understand, but the main problem and the immediate danger is not the piercing or the movies and the like. Tell me, how is he planning to pay for his new lifestyle? Which is much less frugal than yours, not to mention that he’ll need some place to live. I am really concerned he will sooner or later do something stupid, and in the secular world there is very little leeway. He does not have many people to rely upon, much less people to whom he feels he can talk freely about everything and that will support him. A small mistake that under ordinary circumstances would be nothing, people learn a lesson and go on with their life, can be the beginning of a nightmare R’L. I do not know if you should be blunt (eg what to answer when he asks if you’d kick him out) as I don’t know your son (not that I am aware of) – but I do think you should worry about serious issues, such as being arrested and possibly going to prison R’L, such as getting serious diseases (eg from “cheap” piercing or tattoo studios, Hep B is everywhere in Israel especially recently with all the immigration) R’L and believe me there are many other health issues which require a good doctor (I have the impression he does not have one he trusts with confidentiality, and anyway would be too embarrassed), and have you considered the risk of feeling overwhelmed by shame (at whatever trouble he runs into and is about to become known in public), and R’L very bad things can happen in this case too.

    I also believe you should also worry seriously about your other children, I believe you are underestimating how much they are suffering and what is at stake. I realize you are very worried about your son’s observance, but you have to try to keep your head cool, especially if you keep into account that other community members may feel some steps are necessary in order to protect themselves and their own children.


    chance- I know the vacinating game is just a money maker..

    who gives the waiver? school? does it have to be signed by anyone else or just myself?

    A while ago we had a mumps epidemic.. all the non-vaccicnated people were blamed. Same thing happend when there was a measles epidemic before that.. and why do we need a chicken pox vaccine?

    we all had the chicken pox..and we are fine?

    I’m with you on the anti-vaccine opinion!


    WOW- if he is willing to be in Yeshiva maybe you can find a yeshiva dorm that is the type he would associate with… and I don’t mean ‘Rechovot’- if you get what I mean…


    Chance: You are hijacking a serious thread with a ridiculous personal opinion. You can’t blame all of everyone’s problems in life on vaccinations.

    write or wrong

    daniela-my son isn’t doing anything yet overtly, except by hanging out with this fringe group of kids on Shabbos. I’m not happy with his language/songs he sings in the house, but he is trying to be more respectful. I try to talk to my son about safety issues and health, and I can only hope that he doesn’t get into any kind of real trouble, chas’v’shalom. The real issue affecting my other kids right now is essentially my fault. I am so preoccupied with my son that I have less patience for them, and am probably giving him much more attention. I have to work on this. I’m trying to keep my other kids busy, so they don’t have so much interaction with my son, and hopefully they won’t be adversely affected, B’ezrat Hashem


    I do have a son that is ‘looking up’ to his brother..

    I am tryng to find a yeshiva with a dorm so he wont be home too much to follow these footsteps as well as davening that he finds a love for tora and learning so he will not have to resort to all these ‘extra curricular activities’

    M.O. Chossid

    As much as I am reading some comments and agree with them, I want to add my own “2 cents”. I am someone from a frum background, who in his later years is having trouble remaining frum.

    I believe if one tends to “explore” other options at a young age, he will be more likely to hang out with this chevra for a year or two, and eventually come back. I’ve seen it happen on many occasions, and they are doing quite well in the yeshiva world.

    I, on the other hand, is struggling later in my 30’s as if I would have done so in my earlier years – perhaps by now, I would have been “choizer” already.

    What I’m trying to say is, he’s a teenager. They go through fazes in life. They like to try out things. Being in the Frum world, people think that if they hang out with a bum crowd – automatically, they are going OFF THE DERECH. Its not so, they are just in a teenage faze. If we would look around at our goyishe partners in our lives, we would see it happens to their children too- just on a different, perhaps higher scale.

    Drugs abuse, alcohol, parties… etc. When we see our kids (who are in FRUM YESHIVISHE high schools) we don’t think to expect our kids to do something like that. And even if something does happen- on a much lower scale, we tend to go berserk and chas v’shalom, the kid should even be thinking about doing those things. I say- the younger one experiences this, the quicker he will get “back on track”… if you push him to do something he doesn’t want to do- and tries to please you all the time, then there may be more consequences later on his life, when it may be too “late”.

    Let him try out his latest fad, hang out with this chevra who you claim is “going off the derech”… and he will come to his senses quicker than you think. And just relax, accept him… help him. Perhaps tell him, there are some groups of guys hanging out in such and such a place (NCSY, etc) and let him experience different folks that way in a much better settings. NCSY is very good at what they do, and they provide a atmosphere which allows the teen to feel he is not alone, and that there are others like him in this situation, yet a steadfast jewish. And it also comes up with well-trained yeshivish chevra who can keep him on track.

    M.O. Chossid

    I am not a spokesman for NCSY, I’m just giving an example.

    What I see from more modern high schools, that are not strict yeshivos, their students do quite well, in a Torah setting, which allows them to be who they are and without the guilt and pressure of a strict, orthodox, frum yeshiva does. Sometimes, being in the wrong yeshiva can kill a person, mentally. If a person all day feels he is being pressured to do something that he can’t stand doing, then the person will come to resent it.

    A bochur in yeshiva who thinks learning all day and wearing a black hat is too hard for him, should be switched to a much lower scale yeshiva, where it’s a Torah setting in a more relaxed way. One’s kid does not have to be the ULTRA-ORTHODOX- BLACK HATTER kid. We would like for our kids to be such, but if they can’t handle the pressure, then a parent should be careful pushing it on him. Allow him space. Give him room. When you allow him to do the things he feels he needs to do, yet you let him know that you, as his parents, are 100% okay with it, he will remain a Ben-Torah, no matter what life throws at him and what he will try. The point is, you have to trust his instincts. Don’t push any agenda onto him that he doesn’t like, or won’t accept- right now. Give him time, and his space. That is the key. He will return on his own.

    M.O. Chossid

    And for a answer to the second son, don’t push anything onto him either. The trick is, DONOT push anything onto either of him.

    Ever heard of the phrase- trying to much-? They will see it, and latch on to it, as you said- they will test you. The second son will see you are pushing him to keep him away from his older brother, and he will resent it even more. Give both kids their space. If you see, your older son is influencing him too much, then is time to perhaps step in, and give a warning. But, if nothing is going wrong, then just let them be. Don’t be the ones to push your agenda on them, because both of them will resent it. Allow your older son to do what he does, but don’t say anything negative to your younger son that he is off the derech, or criticize him in any way. Your younger son will just become angry with you for “disowning” his older brother. Then, both will be lost. Give them space. They need it at this time. Teenage years is a time to try other things, it’s a faze. And if done right, will pass…


    Thank you

    u r 100% correct.

    I never speak about 1 child to another..

    not very healthy..I quietly try to guide him and perhaps steer him to another direction.. with subtle sugeestions..

    write or wrong

    M.O. Chossid- You make a good point, that the teenage years naturally include rebellion to a certain extent, and that some of it is normal. But I wouldn’t call drug/alcohol abuse a natural part of growing up. Perhaps ‘testing the waters’ has some degree of normalcy, but who’s to say it will end at that, especially if someone feels angry, depressed, and rejected by his peers? I’m afraid the risk is higher for real damage. I only wish it were a phase he were going through, and hopefully some of it is. Perhaps if he made a connection with better kids, who aren’t black and white, it would help bring him to a better place. Maybe after a year or so, like you said, his anger will lessen, and he will able to see everything with a clearer head and with less pain. You said if I just let him do the things he needs to do, and that I’m 100% okay with it, he’ll remain a Ben Torah. But he needs to listen to the worst songs, watch bad movies, and hang with kids who walk around with a laptop, exposing him to the worst stuff. I’m 0% with it (wouldn’t any parent be?), and he knows it. Like you said, I am trying not to push any agenda on him, giving him time and space. Hopefully, that’s all he needs…

    write or wrong

    mom12-I agree with your plan, and hopefully your son will gain a love of learning, which I think is key. Keep posting on your progress.

    Did you find out the name of that Rabbi in Israel?


    I need to ask my son with the ‘crazy schedule’..

    I hope to see him soon, before i go out to work..

    The name begins with a ‘g’..


    WOW–looks like the mods did not allow the name fone no. to go on.. what should I tell you?

    maybe you figure it out yourself..

    write or wrong

    mom12-that’s strange bc on previous posts, I was given names of Rabbis and organizations that might help. Maybe the mods were reading it out of context and thought you were giving me your contact info. Maybe try posting it again explaining that the “yeshiva in Israel that might be of help is…”. If it doesn’t go through, then I don’t know…

    write or wrong

    mom12-do they have a website?


    I am not sure where this long thread has meandered, but I am posting to the title.

    A lot of the derech deviation issues on the teenage level have to do with stupidity, shmiros haloshon, and gaiva from OTHER people who think they are on the derech.

    Specifically, and simply, yeshivas are heavily geared to reward people who are exceedingly left brain hemisphere oriented. The logical, sequential, orderly thinking part of the brain. Included are those who are very good at “parroting” information. And the more exact, the great the reward given to that kind of learner. And rightfully so!

    However, those learners who Hashem created right brain hemisphere oriented, or heavily dominated by that portion of the brain, excel in abstract thought, creative thought, deep thought, spatial thought..etc…and the more they are influenced by that portion of the brain, they more thay are left out of the curriculum and suffer boredom and find it painful to sit a whole day.

    Such students would do better in Montessori type projects (for gifted) where they work with projects and not passive lectures.

    The second group of teens I just mentinoed, then become labeled with “he is one of those kids”. They get lost in the mix. They are not looked at with a sense of esteem. And the wander until they cant put up with it anymore.

    In fact, right hemisphere learners frequently do better on IQ tests.

    In our community, from what I have seen, those who are not equally balanced, but lean more to right hemisphere thinking, are being done an injustice since the curriculum is not geared to their success. This is followed up by ignorant adults who label the kids as not being as Jewish as they should be…and on and on.

    This is what happens when standardized education is not employed, nor people who are properly trained as educators. Being an expert at knowing limud Kodesh does not necessarily an educator make.

    And the whole community, by and large, goes with the flow, and those good, smart kids are left out by us…and when the leave the rest of the way, chas veshalom, we scratch our heads and ask what their problem may be.

    Their problem is us.


    as far as I know there is no website..

    Rosh yeshiva name is Rabbi Goldklang 052 761 5500.

    its more of a litvishe yeshiva with time to ‘play’.

    I hope it works for you. HATZLACHA RABBA

    write or wrong

    BTGuy-very interesting, so then those kids are doomed? What is the solution for those kids? Any real educator should be able to identify areas of strength and weakness in a student, and address them properly in order for that child to learn. Some kids might need extra help, some might need more space, but I think the main problem in the yeshiva system is that intense pressure is put on all kids to perform and to learn many hours, regardless of their tolerance and ability. It’s a ‘one size fits all’ mentality for a wide variety of kids, and I don’t think it works. To make things worse, many Rebbes are perhaps, very knowledgeable in Torah, but are poor educators. There really should be more options..

    Thanks so much mom12. Hatzlacha to you too!


    WOW- Good luck to you.

    Ihope something works out for you and your family!

    After they have tested the forbidden waters (I don’t necessarily mean your son) these teens realize their home is really the safest and really not bad after all! and they start ascendig to a comfortable level and parents have to be accepting.

    Unfortunately I have seen teens and young adults, shall we say choose a different path from their parents and not necessarily doing the wrong thing and their parents have dis-owned them and are not an talking terms with them.. its a very sad situation.

    Regardless of the path a child chooses a parent must be accepting.

    Especially if they are still shomrei tora mizvos!

    It does not mean they are off THE derech.. they might be off YOUR derech.. but that does not mean they are not keeping mizvos.

    parents have to realize this – I dont necessarily mean you, WOW-

    and accept and love the child all the same- ‘Eilu v’eilu divrei elokim chaim’

    WOW- if this rabbi cannot really help you.. or his yeshiva is not good for your son perhaps he can give you other names..

    write or wrong

    mom12-Everything you said is true, I can’t see me ever disowning my child, chas v’shalom. I just pray he will get himself to a ‘good’ place. Thank-you so much for the info, I will look into it.


    I started reading this when you first posted this because I am in a similar situation. I just started reading again after a few weeks. While everyone is well meaning, I am curious whether you contacted any on the people who deal with this situation on a daily basis that were suggested to you? I have and after suffering with the situation for a long time we were given a hadracha that worked and made the home situation much better. Hearing conflicting and even well meaning advice without the experience on those who acutually deal with this situation on a daily basis cannot be as helpful. Have you contacted MASK?


    Hi write or wrong.

    You bring up interesting components to this problem.

    There can be numerous solutions or none at all.

    The problems I mentioned, in my opinion, are deeply systemic. They dominate the outlook of the community, our yeshivas, the families, and youngsters themselves.

    Attitudes are very difficult to change. Teachers, alone cannot control the curriculum or even totally influence that yeshivas have adequate resources to teach with.

    The measuring stick we use to define who is smarter and more successful and even more Jewish, is solely dependent on a curriculum of learning which favor people who are heavily left brain hemisphere oriented (logical, sequential thinking).

    And what about those who are more balanced or heavily right brain hemisphere oriented (spatial, intuitive, creative)? They are left out of opportunities to develop, or, at best, told such endeavors are shtuss. They are neglected, looked down upon, and discouraged.

    There are no immediate answers. We have a lot on our plate now: loshon hora, internet, derech deviation issues, finances for yeshivas, a “shiddich crises”..etc.

    We are a smart people. Our forebears were able to be frum and successful in a variety of endeavors when the outside society made it difficult for them to be Jews. Here, in America, we have freedom to look at our institutions and change them.

    My only real solution that is workable is that I, as an individual, and teacher, can try to be encouraging and offer inspiration to hold them over until they are adults and can find the educational opportunities and support in career endeavors, as long as we dont lose them before they emotionally drop out.


    anna- It looks like there are quite a few of us in this situation.

    Whats good is we are all anonymous and we are also getting feedback from teens themselves which is helpful bec our teens are not really talking to us or telling us parents how they reaally feel or what they really want.

    write or wrong

    anna-d-I did contact MASK, and we have spoken with someone in our neighborhood, as well as a Rav. I’m glad things are better for you, keep me posted with any advice/ideas.

    BTGuy- it’s good that you have the awareness and sensitivity to help such kids. Do you find that you are able to give them enough to hold them over until they become adults and can find their own way? Do they succeed?

    I have a question for anyone who might have a good answer. What do you do if you suspect that your teen is lying to you/hiding something? Let’s say you questioned them, and they deny anything. Do you let it go? I was advised to believe my child no matter what, even if I think they are lying. Any opinions?


    Yes. I went thru that too!

    just be wary of the lie and dont confront him.

    there is nothing to do.. hopefully its not a major lie that can have a serious affect..

    maybe thru another conversation about a different subject youcan ask a question and see if the truth comes out.

    I went thru this too.. nothing to do.. it will just make matters worse.


    Hi write or wrong.

    BH, I do hear success stories from time to time when I run into former students. In some cases they say things they did, had to do, or learned in my class were instrumental. Not sure if they are just being kind, though. Funny thing, many of them do settle in once they get older, BH.

    Still, they should enjoy their youth and never made to feel they are “one of those kids”, which I know that is how many feel simply because it’s difficult to succeed at logical, sequential performance objectives with no opportunity to be rewarded for their creative, spatial, and intuitive side. This also goes with limud kodesh, as well. A crude example is the specialness of Bezalel, who was not made to feel like “one of those kids”. It was quite the opposite. And this has nothing to do with IQ.

    write or wrong

    mom12- so I just have to pretend that everything is okay, just smile and play ‘stupid’? Not sure I’d be able to get the suspicion out of my ‘smile’..

    BTGuy-good to know that many settle down with time..


    Yup. just let it go. but you may drop a hint that you suspect otherwise. and maybe he will keep in mind for next time that you will find out the truth so he won’t lie again.

    They do settle..but its not always on the tracks you laid out for him,, sometimes they are more to the right and more to the left.

    You cant imagine how many boys I know that became fanatically chassidish from litvishe homes and more moderate homes..or they became another type of chossid from their family..

    anyway my son is settling a bit. with age they do mature and realize the non-sense but he is not as chassidish as my other boys and I wish he would daven before chatzos-never mind zman tfila.. then again I shouls say Baruch Hashem he davens!

    He was having some issues that were bothering him and he discussed with me, so I told him maybe if he would take something upon himself for Hashem.. things would straighten out,, Hashem will take care of him. well he didnt tell me right away but he stopped listening to secular music.. the jewish music today is not thrilling either but as Rabbi Wallerstein said when a goy sings the song it penetrates into the yids neshama.. so I will be satisfied with this. Hopefully soon enough he will be ready to improve something else very soon..

    So it DOES get better!

    write or wrong

    mom12-don’t underestimate the power of secular music. Your son giving that up is a HUGE thing!!. Kol hakavod to him!! The secular music kids listen to is filled with immorality and curses, and I’m sure it pulls them deeper and deeper to a place of tumah that’s very hard to leave. And yes, Baruch Hashem he davens! I remember I used to make an issue out of my son going late to shacharis on Shabbos, now he doesn’t go at all. Your son sounds mature, and you seem to have a good relationship with him, since he was able to accept your advice. Hopefully, things will keep getting better and better for both of you!!

    At what age did it start to get better? Do you think that age is THE factor, or was it something else?


    WOW-My mother always tells me ‘you keep talking- even if u think nobody hears you..’

    So I keep talking. I dont criticize. I dont yell. Just state my opinions and beliefs and what I would like out of my children and family..

    and they always say..ye..ye.. we know already.

    Oh! so they heard. and eventually it penetrates.

    I really do have a great relationship with him and he always trusted me cuz I never criticized what he did just listened..

    I do say I don’t approve, and he has told me many a time that he did not ask me and that it was not an aveira, to which most of the time I agreed but,i told him, it was not ‘oisgehalten’.

    or it’s not very yiddish- he was not interested in hearing that.

    He keeps on telling me ‘this is me’ ‘and you have to accept me the way I am’ so I stop.

    He is quite mature and sharp. I would say experience has shown him a lot- all that exposure. (its awful) He is not into learning obviously ,but he wants to be a ‘somebody’ so he has a goal first a GED and then he will decide how to continue.

    I do think age and maturity- if they go together, I am not sure-

    does play a factor.. I also think all the exposure robbed him of some childhood.

    I cannot turn the clock back. We can only go forward..

    I hope you can sort out all I have mentioned here..

    Any questions ask. were able to get in touch with anyone?

    write or wrong

    mom12-I love your mother’s advice! You seem to be pretty clear in your approach to your son, which is good. And it seems to have ‘rubbed off’ on him, since he does have some ambition and a goal. I’m not sure I’m always so consistent with my son. But from what you’ve said, and some of the other posts, it appears that I really do have to be strong enough to hold back, and give my son time, space and acceptance so that hopefully he’ll be able to find his way back. I pray that we will both see success!

    Have a Good Shabbos…


    Another thing that I do, so I dont seem like a threat but rather a friend in a certain sense- which I am with all my children- and they still respect me..

    when he starts telling me things that are going on I speak his language.. not nivul peh.. and I seem interested in what he is telling me.

    If I meet him with his friends I talk to them as well.. and act along with them.

    This way I get information and keep it in ‘storage’.

    even when I hear him speakng with friends on the phone I would comment something ‘corny’ or funny..

    Like this he finds the friend in me and when I ask him a ‘favor’

    like maybe he should daven or something like that he does not think to himself that I only talk to him to tell him what to do..

    write or wrong

    I think I might have ruined everything. I don’t think I’m going to be able to pass my side of the ‘test’. Friday night, my son was out with his chevra (late), and they were across the street. They were making a spectacle of themselves. It wasn’t my son who was yelling, cursing, and throwing things, but he was with them. I just couldn’t fathom how my son felt like he belonged there. My heart was breaking in two. He came home really late, later than he said. I told him last night that I can’t accept it anymore. He’s destroying me and his father. I told him he can’t do stuff like this right under our noses and expect us not to have any reaction. We each went back and forth with different ‘threats’, and I just don’t know what’s going to happen. He’s not in a good place right now..and neither am I


    WOW-A gitte voch.. A besser voch!

    I can certainly empathize with u. even though BARUCH HASHEM my son is a better now..

    I dont know what you told your son..

    I would have said somthing to the effect that he makes me cry.. and not well but really sad.

    please call Rabbi Weingort from shalom Rav in Zfas and see if your son wont benefit… 050 200 9820.

    He will be out of your sight and might come home a better person.

    Your son is definitely troubled about something maybe ask him calmly what is troubling him and apologize if you have to about the confrontation or argument you had a night or two ago..

    Its just you are so hurt..

    Kids dont like when their moms cry..

    tell him you are on his side and youwant to help him..

    and he will answer you- if you want to help me just leave me alone!

    and you will tell him as long as you are his mother you cannot leave him alone and you care about him and where he is going..

    and leave it at that.



    As a guy in my early twenties who went through this and know other people who did, I would suggest that he is really looking for any excuse to ‘have fun’ by doing as he pleases. When someone is brought up in a place where judaism implies that secular films/music are forbidden by law, you have to dress in black and white, you have to go to a yeshiva at the expense of secular studies (which would lead to work) etc. then religious judaism leaves the pure rational halachic boundaries and becomes a cult based on modern traditions with the single aim of who can be holier/stricter. This is the excuse he needs; why should he keep things that appear to make no sense even within judaism.

    Do you want you son to be a religious jew who follows the shulchan oruch, one who follows the corrupt philosophy of modern day haredi’ism or be secular?

    I would humbly suggest that instead of trying to send him back to haredi yeshiva where irrationally and stringencies reign you should send him to a modern orthodox yeshiva/uni where he can have a chance to be able to intellectually rationalise judaism in the current world. Where he can feel that he is not stuck in a medieval religion but one that is relevant today.

    You can’t force faith on someone. You can give them a chance to learn if you put them in an atmosphere where they are encouraged to rationalise what they are doing.

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