Good Communities Outside of NY

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  • #608827

    MorahRach
    Member

    My husband and I currently reside in NY. We one day in the not so far future iyH want to buy a house, but there is just no way we would be able to afford one in an area of nY that we like. The 5 towns is out of the question, for more reasons than $. Queens we love in an apartment but not house. What are some good communities that have day and high schools, frum not so yeshivish but not coed. Restaurants are a plus! (My husband says we won’t be able to leave because I love eating too much , in a sweet way of course). Thanks for any help. Chag sameach!

    #1153457

    Parshaman
    Member

    Chicago

    #1153458

    anon1m0us
    Participant

    Monsey– in the right neighborhood, you can buy a house for high 200’s-300’s. Yes, you will need to walk 15 minutes to shul, but that is how you can afford low priced housing.

    #1153459

    fre444
    Member

    Edison, NJ

    not so yeshivish but frum.

    has places to eat.

    has high school eventhough you might choose elsewhere

    #1153460

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Passaic/Clifton (you’ll need to go to Monsey for a larger selection of restaurants), Bayswater (cheaper than Five Towns/Far Rockaway with access to the same schools, shopping, and eateries).

    You shouldn’t paint the entire Five Towns with one brushstroke; Lawrence is very different than Hewlett, for example.

    #1153461

    akuperma
    Participant

    The Baltimore-Washington Metropolitan Area is radically cheaper, but only have about a half dozen restaurants with waiters and tablecloths, and also lacks a lot of the gashmius that gives New York its character. It also lacks enough Yiddish speakers for kids to grow up speaking Yiddish, and Hasidim are a largely ignored minority group. But if you are primiarily interested in Yiddishkeit (meaning Torah and Mitsvos – not trying to be keep up with the heart of Boro Park or the Five Towns), the Baltimore-Washington Area is excellent.

    In Baltimore, a detached house with a dozen shuls in walking distance is around $100K, and even the fanciest houses rarely go to more than $250K – and the fancy ones are farther from shuls. Its easy find a Beis Medrash, but you’ll have to go to New York for a $100/person restaurant, or to buy a beckeshe.

    #1153462

    gaslight
    Member

    P/C is a good community, but I don’t know how much cheaper it is!

    What is Chicago like? I saw there are 2 Bais Yaakovs – how do they compare?

    #1153463

    takahmamash
    Participant

    Beit Shemesh/Ramat Beit Shemesh

    Yerushalayim

    Chashmonaim

    Petach Tikva

    Netanya

    Ashdod

    #1153464

    Vogue
    Member

    I have a bunch of friends who went to hanna sacks, and I have been in the school building myself. The girls are very nice, however, my friends all had issues with the administration that, if I would have gone there, I would have ended up switching to Ida crown (the modern co-ed school) because I was not a hashkafic fit for bais yaakov high school at the time. The girls are only allowed to wear, clear, french manicure, or pale pink nail polish to school, or no nail polish. Otherwise, they make you take it off. There are ten different uniform shirts, grey skirts, navy, and ugly plaid skirt (they phased out green skirts and replaced with grey), you could probably come up with a different outfit every day for a month if you get every single item from the uniform store. You are allowed to have internet in your house, you have to turn in your cell phone to the office at the beginning of every school day, their erev shira is mandatory, or your substandard (I know someone who dropped out, and the school tried to prevent her from being successful in school, she had learning differences to, so it wasn’t even easy for her to go to school all day to begin with). The school day is from 8:15-5:22 pm. Most of the teachers are very nice, but sometimes, my friends have told me that the administration almost made it not worth going to school there- or at least that is how they felt at times. On the plus side, on Rosh Chodesh, you can wear whatever you want, as long as it isn’t denim and does not have words on it.

    Bais Yaakov high school, starts their school day at 8:30 and ends at 4:30. Girls are not allowed to have internet in their homes, I have heard from my friends there that the administration there is on the opposite extreme and doesn’t always notice, or attempt to deal with issues girls have. They have significantly fewer options for uniforms. On Rosh Chodesh, you are allowed to wear any white shirt you want, there are restrictions on colors you can wear outside of school, and some other rules.

    Basically, there are plusses and minuses to each school, you really need to check them out before making the decision to move there, or you might want to consider sending your children to schools outside of chicago for high school. In terms of issues with administrations as mentioned above, they aren’t biased at either school about which girls are affected by their “unofficial issue treatment policy” I feel that you really need to know who is teaching the classes more than the hanhala. But thats just my take on it.

    #1153465

    MorahRach
    Member

    Thanks everyone! I was (sort) of kidding about the restaurant. Yes it’s definitely a plus but a grocery store with kosher options is more important. Does anyone has more info on Washington? I absolutely love DC. I am a big political junky for one and love being immersed in it. I have family there that I love visiting but they have zero affiliation with Orthodox-anything so I can’t get any sense of what life for my family would be like here. There are yeshiva day schools in Washington? Baltimore I also know nothing about. When you say a detached house in b’more could be In the 100’s, what exactly do you mean?

    I have heard good things about Clifton, I need to look into it. My husband is originally from Passaic, his family left because it was too yeshivish but his family is quite modern so maybe it would be right for us, he left at age 6. Keep up the info please! I hope everyone’s yuntif was beautiful.

    #1153466

    Git Meshige
    Participant

    Cheyenne, Wyoming is wonderful

    #1153467

    Brony
    Participant

    Baltimore

    Silver Spring

    Miami

    Boca Raton

    Cleveland

    Philadelphia

    Pittsburgh

    Chicago

    Milwaukee

    Detroit

    Minneapolis

    Houston

    Dallas

    Cincinnati

    Chicago

    Las Vegas

    LA

    Palo Alto

    Seattle

    Denver

    Phoenix

    Shoutout to all my outta town homies.

    #1153468

    akuperma
    Participant

    takahmamash: Except that in Israel the government wants to take yeshiva students (and girls, if you see the fine print) and put them into a military that sees one of its goals as being the secularizion of all Israels so there will be uniform culture (meaning that if you are conservadox or a left-wing religious zionist Israel is perfect, but not if you are frum).

    MorahRach: In Baltimore, there are single family detached houses with respectable yards and driveways in the $100K-$125K range, generally built post-World War II, within a ten minute walk of the major shuls (including the German, Yeshivish, Hasidic and modern orthodox ones). For more money, you can a newer house. If you want to live in Baltimore country (a few blocks away) you pay at least twice as much for the house, but the tax rate is under half of the city (other differences is that Baltimore County has better public schools, which is why housing there is a premium – that can be important if one’s child is so special (i.e. handicapped) that they need to go to a non-Jewish school.

    Also note that DC and Baltimore are in a relationship similar to Brooklyn and Manhattan (except that they only have separate teams in baseball and football, but do have separate newspapers). If general, Baltimore is frumer than DC, but there are plenty of modern orthodox and non-frum in Baltimore, and plenty of “penguins” in DC (or rather Montgomery County which includes Silver Spring, Rockville and Potomac). The heavily subsidized commuter trains connect Baltimore to DC (but as yet no one has managed to set up a minyan on them, many people drive to Silver Spring to make early minyans before continuing on to jobs in DC).

    #1153469

    Health
    Participant

    MR -“My husband is originally from Passaic, his family left because it was too yeshivish”

    Yeshivish -code word for “Frum”. Anybody who lived in Passaic 20 years ago and decided Passaic was too Yeshivishe -meant that they don’t like Jews who keep the Torah. I don’t live in Passaic, but even nowadays there is a Big Modern Olam and lots of BT’s. It’s funny because -before the Yeshiva came there it was a dying Jewish community. The Yeshiva brought the Jewish community back to life.

    #1153470

    MorahRach
    Member

    Health- I was wrong about the age, my husband was there until he was 11. Either way- your statement as usual is rude and judgmental. My husbands family do not hate Jews who follow the Torah. They are very modern and the crowd was changing so it was not for them. They watched tv, went to movies, their daughters wore an wear pants. A community is allowed to not be for everyone, maybe it’s good for you.

    Everyone else, thanks! I definitely would never send my kids out of town for high school, so that’s out. Texas (Dallas) yes we are super interested. We have some contacts there who are very involved with the colmurnity but our friends don’t have children above be age of 2 so I don’t know anything about the schools except I heard there is a chofetz Chaim day school, right?

    My husband ideally would want to move to Florida. I have friends from Hollywood, it’s beautiful there. My husband hates ny weather and is so over the cold! Are there “young” frum Jews in Boca? Isn’t it more..elderly? I know nothing that is just what I always thought. Miami is beautiful but,and I am so not someone to act judgmental in this sense but it seems a lot more pritzusdik than other parts of florid.

    #1153471

    Mammele
    Participant

    After hurricane Sandy, most people would be wary to buy a house in Bayswater.

    Also, before considering places not driving distance to NY, you have to consider how often you’d want to visit family, and how much airfare would cost for a hopefully growing family.

    Kosher food is also more expensive out of the tri-state area, it’s not just about the mortgage.

    #1153472

    Health
    Participant

    MR -“Health- I was wrong about the age, my husband was there until he was 11. Either way- your statement as usual is rude and judgmental. My husbands family do not hate Jews who follow the Torah. They are very modern and the crowd was changing so it was not for them. They watched tv, went to movies, their daughters wore an wear pants. A community is allowed to not be for everyone, maybe it’s good for you.”

    You missed my point and it wasn’t rude or judgmental -it was fact. Now I don’t know if your husband’s family preceded the Yeshiva or not, but I can tell you there was hardly any Jewish families left in the town before people started moving there because of the Yeshiva. So the implication of your post was that there was a Jewish community there and it changed to Yeshivish because of the Yeshiva. No, there wasn’t much Jews there before the Yeshiva. It was a thriving Frum community in the 20’s. It died in the 50’s & 60’s. Once the Yeshiva started up the community again – MO’s also moved in. So this is called Kofoy Tov. So without the Yeshiva the town would be mostly Goyim -so I guess if your husband’s family preceded the Yeshiva -they must prefer to live amongst Goyim then amongst Yeshivaleit. The MO’s and BT’s moved in because the Yeshiva made it a Frum community. When I was there many years ago, there wasn’t even a Kosher grocery. They still had shuls but the only people in then were old people and I doubt most were even Frum. And most barely had a Minyan. So if there was even a small amount of Jewish community -they would have had a least a Kosher grocery.

    #1153473

    MorahRach
    Member

    Health- I’m not sure if you are assuming we are older than we are but my husbands family lived there after the yeshiva was already there. There was a huge modern crowd in the 90s but then a lot of yeshivish people moved in, and many modern people left because it was too much for them.

    #1153474

    takahmamash
    Participant

    Akuperma:

    takahmamash: Except that in Israel the government wants to take yeshiva students (and girls, if you see the fine print) and put them into a military that sees one of its goals as being the secularizion of all Israels so there will be uniform culture (meaning that if you are conservadox or a left-wing religious zionist Israel is perfect, but not if you are frum).

    Wow, thanks so much – I guess I’m not frum! That makes me feel so much better; I may as well break out the bacon, cheeseburgers, and lobster.

    BTW, Akuperma, whoever you are – I have a daughter in the IDF along one of the northern borders, although she is not in combat. Her frumkeit is surviving just fine, and if anything, she’s managed to have at least some religious influence on some of the girls around her. I guess it doesn’t matter, though, because I guess in your eyes she isn’t frum either.

    I’m gone. I’ve had enough of the sanctimonious tone in the CR that so many of you believe if you don’t have a black hat or a sheitle, you can’t be frum. Adios. I’ll be here when Moshiach comes, watching you all fight for airline flights.

    #1153475

    yeshivaguy45
    Participant

    MorahRach, I visited the jewish community in washington dc about 9 years ago, there was one shul in Georgetown which is a suburb, the community was older, the restaurants that were there had all closed up. It wasn’t a very yeshivish community either. I wouldn’t recommend moving there unless its changed within 8 years.

    Vogue, what you said about hanna sacks was loshon hora and could have even been motzi shem ra. I know the several people on the administration personally and they are wonderful people. If you want to know the difference between hanna sacks and bais yaakov high school, I’ll tell you what I think the diffrenece is. Bais Yaakov High school is extremely yeshivish and very strict,. The principal’s husband is the Rosh Yeshiva of Telshe Chicago. It’s that hashkafa. Hanna Sacks Bais Yaakov is extremely frum but only to a certain extent. They say you need to look proper and be human.

    #1153476

    MorahRach
    Member

    Yeashivaguy- thanks for the info. I have been to Georgetown-gorgeous place but from what you said doesn’t sound right. We are looking into Dallas, Hollywood or other areas of Florida, (Chicago is too cold I think), all areas of New Jersey. I happen to love New York I just don’t understand how people afford it! My parents pay $16,000 a year just in taxes.

    #1153477

    apushatayid
    Participant

    Walla Walla.

    #1153478

    akuperma
    Participant

    Georgetown in DC is the “fancy” neighborhood but while it has a shul, it has no schools or restaurants. The two restaurants in DC are near Du Pont Circle, which is in the downtown area. For all purposes, the Jewish community in Washington is in Montgomery COunty (part of Maryland, on the DC Metro) which has a wide variety of shuls, restaurants, schools ,etc. There is also the popular option to commute from Baltimore (about 45 minutes away by car, 55 by train) which has radically cheaper housing, and radically more frumkeit (especially if you are frummer than modern orthodox).

    #1153479

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    MR

    In NYC itself the property taxes are alot cheaper than the suburbs

    #1153480

    interjection
    Participant

    yeshivaguy45 it’s funny you chose that to pick on from Vogue’s post. Nothing she said about either of the two schools is accurate, except for maybe Hanna Sacks’ school hours.

    #1153481

    MorahRach
    Member

    Zd, how much are we talking? I know what my parents, in laws, and parents friends pay and it’s astronomical. What my folks pay is less than what some pay in part of New Jersey and CT, but I can’t imagine it being less than in the south for example.

    #1153482

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    Chicago is also quite expensive.

    Might I suggest Eretz Yisroel (How about Haifa?) If not that, how about Atlanta, Cleveland or St. Louis? Denver also has great views and some very good Kosher Pizza.

    You shouldn’t paint the entire Five Towns with one brushstroke; Lawrence is very different than Hewlett, for example.

    Funny you say that. My relative in the “Five Towns” tells me that housing in Far Rockaway proper is significantly more expensive than Lawrence. Something to do with Real Estate taxes, and the more “Yeshivish” crowd wanting to live in Far Rockaway, driving the prices up.

    #1153483

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Taxes are $3000-$4000 in NYC

    I dont know how frum you are so I cant recommend neighborhoods.

    There are nice houses in Fresh Meadows, Queens (and other parts of Eastern Queens)_ and on Willowbrook Staten Island with decent land for those cheap taxes. with plenty of restarants and shopping.

    They are frum but not yeshivish, definatly leaning toward the modern side

    #1153484

    yeshivaguy45
    Participant

    gavra at work- The pizza shop in denver is good but it has very crazy hours. The joke is that its open from 7:00 to 7:01.

    #1153485

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    gavra at work- The pizza shop in denver is good but it has very crazy hours. The joke is that its open from 7:00 to 7:01.

    🙂

    #1153486

    MorahRach
    Member

    Israel is not for us, I have heard things about Atlanta! All good ideas to look into, thank you.

    Zdad, I’m looking for outside of ny. I grew up in a suburb of new york, it’s just too expensive. I do not like the houses I see in queens, I want a private/decent yard and some semblance of privacy which I just do not see happening I’m these houses that are inches from one another.

    #1153487

    Kind Kalman
    Member

    I personally have heard amazing things about Edison, NJ.

    The community has a very nice out of town feel, and still is

    only 45 minutes from the city, Brooklyn, and Lakewood. You get the benefits of both!

    They have all types of Jews there from Yeshivish to Modern and they all get along very nicely. They have a “Yeshivish” elementary school which is probably along the lines of what you are looking for.

    They have a Bais Yaakov in Edison and the Edison Yeshiva. If the Yeshiva is too Yeshivish for you then there are places within driving distances to commute too or your son can dorm in a NY Yeshiva and come home whenever you need him too.

    They have a decent number of restaurants and if you really need more (which it seems you don’t) there are plenty within a reasonable driving distance.

    As an extra bonus it’s located in NJ where gas is much cheaper then many other places and they fill up for you!

    It is definitely a community I would seriously look into.

    #1153488

    shtusim
    Participant

    As a resident of the 5T for over 25 years, i must say that it is a wonderful area to live in. Granted some parts are pricey, but you can buy a house at a decent price. Many young couples have moved to Inwood, North Woodmere, parts of Cedarhurst and Woodmere. There is even talk of a group moving to Valley Stream. All of these areas are relatively close to the shopping and restaurants in the 5T.

    You can also check out West Hempstead and Oceanside.

    #1153489

    Health
    Participant

    MorahRach -“Health- I’m not sure if you are assuming we are older than we are but my husbands family lived there after the yeshiva was already there. There was a huge modern crowd in the 90s but then a lot of yeshivish people moved in, and many modern people left because it was too much for them.”

    Now you are beginning to understand my point.

    From above: “The MO’s and BT’s moved in because the Yeshiva made it a Frum community.”

    If you move to a Jewish community that was revived by the Yeshivish community, whether you are MO or not, how do you have the Chutzpa later on to complain that it has become too Yeshivish, eg. -“his family left because it was too yeshivish”?

    #1153490

    jewishness
    Participant

    You should look into North Miami Beach. It is an excellent community. The schools are A+. They have a large branch of Chofetz Chaim with very good rebeim and teachers and the Bais Yakov in NMB is an excellent school. The community boasts a large vibrant Young Israel, as well as a whole bunch of other shuls. There are all kinds ranging from modern to kollel and every thing in between. There is Khal Chasidim and Chabad as well sfardim and everyone gets along in the most beautiful way. There are also other schools in Hollywood and Miami Beach both a 15 minute drive. All ages.

    #1153491

    MorahRach
    Member

    Thanks jewishness! That’s my husbands dream he loves Florida, I didn’t m

    Know there was such a frum community in Miami.

    Health- Oy!!! Don’t call me chutzpadik. I am just reiterating why my I’m laws left. They are very modern so-again-yes it was too yeshivish for them. Why are you having such a hard time grasping that? I am not saying anything negative about Passaic. Just my in laws history there.

    #1153492

    sharp
    Member

    Passaic, NJ

    Monsey, NY

    Waterbury, CT

    Chicago, IL

    #1153493

    MorahRach
    Member

    Isn’t Waterbury extremely charedi? I know the Rabbi of the Yeshiva, Rabbi Jeremias, I always thought it was a very charedi place. (More than me I’m saying).

    #1153494

    Vogue
    Member

    If you paid attention to my original post on this thread, I said that you need to check out the schools to determine which is right for you.

    I mean if you put it into context, the girl I got most of my information from no longer enjoys learning Torah or davening and is having some serious religious issues,but everyone thinks she is a really good girl so she isn’t able to get the help she needs. Maybe other girls had better experiences at the schools.j

    #1153495

    Vogue
    Member

    I feel like constantly refreshing this page.

    #1153496

    MorahRach
    Member

    Have any of you moved OOT originally from NY? Was it hard? How about leaving your parents/families? I feel like that is what is holding me back, my parents/siblings. I would hate to raise my family away from them. But ny=$$$$$!

    #1153497

    Brony
    Participant

    didn’t mean to leave u out my st. losers. pologies.

    #1153498

    sharp
    Member

    Yes, Waterbury is Chareidi

    #1153499

    Health
    Participant

    MR -“Don’t call me chutzpadik. I am just reiterating why my I’m laws left. They are very modern so-again-yes it was too yeshivish for them. Why are you having such a hard time grasping that?”

    Why are you having such a hard time grasping my point?

    Anyone who says that they can’t stand the place because it’s too Yeshivish is Chutzpa. They moved to a town because the Yeshivish people opened up their community to e/o, but now that a lot of Yeshiva people are living there -they don’t want to live there anymore.

    edited

    #1153500

    Mammele
    Participant

    Health: sometimes silence is actually golden. Did you appreciate — when you were married — that people complained about your wife to you? It doesn’t matter if you’re right or not, let it go.

    #1153501

    yehudayona
    Participant

    Mammele, the rumors of Bayswater’s death at the hands of Sandy are greatly exaggerated. Many (maybe most?) houses were totally undamaged. Other areas (Far Rockaway proper, Long Beach, Belle Harbor, Oceanside) were harder hit. In Bayswater, you can get a house with a large yard for less than you’d pay in almost any other frum community in the NY area, but it’s still a lot more expensive than many OOT communities (Baltimore, Detroit, etc.)

    GAW, as regards Lawrence vs. FR, it depends on the neighborhood. Back Lawrence is pricier than the most expensive part of FR (Reads Lane). When comparing housing prices, it’s foolish not to account for ongoing costs like property taxes, so that “cheaper” Lawrence house may not be cheaper.

    If the OP is concerned about maintaining connections with family in the NY area, she should limit herself to areas fairly close to NY, such as Baltimore. Denver may have great pizza (and no chance of being affected by rising sea levels), but it’s a long way from NY.

    #1153502

    Vogue
    Member

    But you can always take train rides through Amtrak I am taking a twenty two hour train ride from new York to somewhere else, they even let you bring liquid and food on the train so you could bring tour own kosher food on the train and save money on liquids

    #1153503

    sharp
    Member

    You might want to look into Staten Island, by the way. I know it’s in NY, but from what I hear it’s very affordable and it’s a nice mix.

    #1153504

    Vogue
    Member

    *Your

    #1153505

    DaMoshe
    Participant

    The Elizabeth/Hillside area is a very good option. Which side you want to move to depends on how old you are – more young couples are moving into the Hillside area.

    The community is a very nice MO community, and it has the JEC school system. The schools are co-ed entirely for pre-school. I believe at first grade they are separate for limudei kodesh, and at 4th grade are entirely separate.

    As far as food goes, they have a kosher grocery, and the local Shop Rite has a kosher section. They also have a pizza store, Chinese take-out, and a sit-down restaurant.

    Homes are very affordable. You can now buy a home for under $200k. They also offer incentives for moving into the community – all local residents get an automatic scholarship for their kids in pre-school which lowers the cost significantly. If you buy a home, you get an automatic $5,000 off your first year of tuition as well.

    Granted, tuition is high compared to Brooklyn, but you’ll find that everywhere in NJ except Lakewood.

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