Goyim Copying Yiddishe Minhagim

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  • #602000
    sushee
    Member

    Many times in our history we ceased minhagim because the goyim copied them. Other times we didn’t stop a copied custom or law. What determined if it was stopped or not? And some examples.

    #859365
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Putting ashes on forheads before a wedding to rember the Bais Hamigdosh

    #859366

    what about the minhagim we coppied from them?

    #859367

    I once heard that Yeshiva bochurim used to don the long sideburns in the manner of a certain goyishe singer known as “The King of Rock and Roll”. A rosh yeshiva came out and actually ordered them to be cleanshaven to avoid going in the ways of the goyim.

    #859368
    AinOhdMilvado
    Participant

    –Zahavasdad… That minhag is still done, though usually not enough ash is put on to be really noticeable.

    –We do not kneel when we daven (except on R.H. and Y.K.) because it became the custom of the notzrim.

    #859369
    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    Dancing around a fire and paying homage to the great Zoroastar, who brought the secret works of Yasna Haptanghaiti. 😉

    #859370
    Health
    Participant

    Palm Sunday -We still take Lulavim on Sukkos.

    X-mas trees -Some don’t put trees in Shul on Shuvous because of this.

    #859371
    squeak
    Participant

    Gaw and bringing hair offerings of young boys.

    #859372
    AinOhdMilvado
    Participant

    gavra_at_work…

    Ya’ mean we’re not supposed to do that???

    oops!

    😉

    #859373
    ItcheSrulik
    Member

    gaw: Jews started doing that well after zoroastrianism was no longer a factor though it is so similar.

    You do notice that we don’t jump over the fires which was a pagan custom in Northern Europe.

    #859375
    greatest
    Member

    AOM: GAW was saying those goyim copied our minhag.

    #859376
    akuperma
    Participant

    How about men having to marry women? Oops, they aren’t copying that anymore.

    #859377
    Avi K
    Participant

    The test is whether the Goyim did it for pritzut (including gaava) or whether there is a logical reason. Thus it is permitted for a doctor to wear a white coat to differentiate imself from a layamn (Rema Yoreh Deah 178:1). Regarding clothing, Rav Moshe says that being that today clothes are manufactured for everyone it can just as well be said that Goyim are wearing Jewish clothing and there is no issur so fra as Gentile clothing is concerned (Iggerot Moshe Yoreh Deah 1:81).

    #859378
    Toi
    Participant

    health- the tree thing is a Gaon on S”A. everyone is makpid on trees. flowers are the accepted minhag now.

    #859379
    sam4321
    Participant

    Toi:”everyone is makpid on trees”

    Maharsham (Da’at Torah, O.C. 494) gives two reasons why it is fine.

    #859380

    we only get chanukah presents cause we copied X-ms presents.

    #859381
    sushee
    Member

    mooski – that’s a newfangled thing. Many if not most of us do not get presents. We get Chanukah Gelt, which is a yiddishe minhag.

    #859382
    Health
    Participant

    Toi -“health- the tree thing is a Gaon on S”A. everyone is makpid on trees.”

    Wrong. Lots and lots of Chassidim bring trees or branches usually (not whole trees), into Shul on Shuvous!

    #859383
    Health
    Participant

    moskidoodle -“we only get chanukah presents cause we copied X-ms presents.”

    Perhaps that’s the reason of the Freye, not by the Frumme. I think it started when Yidden didn’t want to just give $ anymore. Kids wanted something that they could use practically. Once upon a time, you gave $ because the only thing a kid could get was a candy in the store. With the advent of thousands of different toys people were able to just buy a present that they could afford and that the kid would want. Why do you think Toys R’ Us are full of people Chol Hamoyed Pesach buying the kids Afikomen presents? This isn’t copying Goyim.

    #859385
    Logician
    Participant

    R’ Yakov Kaminetzky suggests that the presents is also copied from us (though perhaps he meant from our giving gelt).

    Another example: R’ Akiva Eiger in beginnning of Hilchos Tefilah – we no longer daven with our arms raised, because they copied us.

    I would imagine the issue is doing avodas Hashem in a way that looks like them, even if they copied. Does anyone have such examples which we didn’t stop ?

    Other things would just be a question of “bechukosayhem”, which depends mainly on motive, as was pointed out above from R’ Moshe.

    #859386
    Toi
    Participant

    health- you present arguments like a 10th grader. Its a classic case of “He who shouts louder is always right.” so im done.

    #859387
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Another practice of ours that was adopted by early (and later) Christians is the practice of punishing suicides by not allowing them to be buried in a proper cemetery and punishing the family by not allowing them to mourn for the suicide.

    However, I will grant that there are some differences. For example, under early Church law, a failed suicide would be executed. We would not do that (as there is apparently no punishment in the Torah for attempted murder. We would just release the attempted suicide to try again). Likewise, in many jurisdictions, a suicide’s property was forfeit; we do not do that as well, as we allow a suicide’s estate to pass on to his heirs as in a “normal” death.

    The Wolf

    #859390
    Avi K
    Participant

    Anyway, it is almost impossible to say that it was ladaat as almost everyone who does this either does not do so in front of two kosher witnesses (so that maybe it was an accident or a murder meant to lok like a suicide) or is unbalanced. Once a well-known Jewish politician in NYC was found dead, apparently by his own hand, in the middle of a corruption investigation. He was buried in the regular section of a Jewish cemetary.

    #859391
    postal
    Member

    White bridal gown

    Wedding ring for bride

    #859392
    i am here
    Member

    an on a side point the music in the frum world most of it is totality goyish and thats what most pple. listen and dance to and play by chasunas. and its taken from the goyim but minhagim that r taken and taken away (so called) we still do thats what we r all just talking about it all comes from the same things.

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