Goyim Copying Yiddishe Minhagim
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February 10, 2012 1:50 pm at 1:50 pm #602000susheeMember
Many times in our history we ceased minhagim because the goyim copied them. Other times we didn’t stop a copied custom or law. What determined if it was stopped or not? And some examples.February 10, 2012 3:13 pm at 3:13 pm #859365zahavasdadParticipant
Putting ashes on forheads before a wedding to rember the Bais HamigdoshFebruary 10, 2012 3:17 pm at 3:17 pm #859366mikehall12382Member
what about the minhagim we coppied from them?February 10, 2012 3:36 pm at 3:36 pm #859367Flatbush DudeMember
I once heard that Yeshiva bochurim used to don the long sideburns in the manner of a certain goyishe singer known as “The King of Rock and Roll”. A rosh yeshiva came out and actually ordered them to be cleanshaven to avoid going in the ways of the goyim.February 10, 2012 4:30 pm at 4:30 pm #859368AinOhdMilvadoParticipant
–Zahavasdad… That minhag is still done, though usually not enough ash is put on to be really noticeable.
–We do not kneel when we daven (except on R.H. and Y.K.) because it became the custom of the notzrim.February 10, 2012 4:39 pm at 4:39 pm #859369gavra_at_workParticipant
Dancing around a fire and paying homage to the great Zoroastar, who brought the secret works of Yasna Haptanghaiti. 😉February 10, 2012 5:28 pm at 5:28 pm #859370
Palm Sunday -We still take Lulavim on Sukkos.
X-mas trees -Some don’t put trees in Shul on Shuvous because of this.February 10, 2012 5:58 pm at 5:58 pm #859371squeakParticipant
Gaw and bringing hair offerings of young boys.February 10, 2012 6:08 pm at 6:08 pm #859372AinOhdMilvadoParticipant
Ya’ mean we’re not supposed to do that???
😉February 10, 2012 6:47 pm at 6:47 pm #859373ItcheSrulikMember
gaw: Jews started doing that well after zoroastrianism was no longer a factor though it is so similar.
You do notice that we don’t jump over the fires which was a pagan custom in Northern Europe.February 10, 2012 7:47 pm at 7:47 pm #859375greatestMember
AOM: GAW was saying those goyim copied our minhag.February 10, 2012 8:50 pm at 8:50 pm #859376akupermaParticipant
How about men having to marry women? Oops, they aren’t copying that anymore.February 11, 2012 5:16 pm at 5:16 pm #859377Avi KParticipant
The test is whether the Goyim did it for pritzut (including gaava) or whether there is a logical reason. Thus it is permitted for a doctor to wear a white coat to differentiate imself from a layamn (Rema Yoreh Deah 178:1). Regarding clothing, Rav Moshe says that being that today clothes are manufactured for everyone it can just as well be said that Goyim are wearing Jewish clothing and there is no issur so fra as Gentile clothing is concerned (Iggerot Moshe Yoreh Deah 1:81).February 11, 2012 5:35 pm at 5:35 pm #859378ToiParticipant
health- the tree thing is a Gaon on S”A. everyone is makpid on trees. flowers are the accepted minhag now.February 12, 2012 2:31 am at 2:31 am #859379sam4321Participant
Toi:”everyone is makpid on trees”
Maharsham (Da’at Torah, O.C. 494) gives two reasons why it is fine.February 12, 2012 2:35 am at 2:35 am #859380Doodle-Man™Member
we only get chanukah presents cause we copied X-ms presents.February 12, 2012 3:46 am at 3:46 am #859381susheeMember
mooski – that’s a newfangled thing. Many if not most of us do not get presents. We get Chanukah Gelt, which is a yiddishe minhag.February 12, 2012 5:21 pm at 5:21 pm #859382
Toi -“health- the tree thing is a Gaon on S”A. everyone is makpid on trees.”
Wrong. Lots and lots of Chassidim bring trees or branches usually (not whole trees), into Shul on Shuvous!February 12, 2012 5:31 pm at 5:31 pm #859383
moskidoodle -“we only get chanukah presents cause we copied X-ms presents.”
Perhaps that’s the reason of the Freye, not by the Frumme. I think it started when Yidden didn’t want to just give $ anymore. Kids wanted something that they could use practically. Once upon a time, you gave $ because the only thing a kid could get was a candy in the store. With the advent of thousands of different toys people were able to just buy a present that they could afford and that the kid would want. Why do you think Toys R’ Us are full of people Chol Hamoyed Pesach buying the kids Afikomen presents? This isn’t copying Goyim.February 12, 2012 6:51 pm at 6:51 pm #859385LogicianParticipant
R’ Yakov Kaminetzky suggests that the presents is also copied from us (though perhaps he meant from our giving gelt).
Another example: R’ Akiva Eiger in beginnning of Hilchos Tefilah – we no longer daven with our arms raised, because they copied us.
I would imagine the issue is doing avodas Hashem in a way that looks like them, even if they copied. Does anyone have such examples which we didn’t stop ?
Other things would just be a question of “bechukosayhem”, which depends mainly on motive, as was pointed out above from R’ Moshe.February 12, 2012 8:46 pm at 8:46 pm #859386ToiParticipant
health- you present arguments like a 10th grader. Its a classic case of “He who shouts louder is always right.” so im done.February 13, 2012 12:55 am at 12:55 am #859387WolfishMusingsParticipant
Another practice of ours that was adopted by early (and later) Christians is the practice of punishing suicides by not allowing them to be buried in a proper cemetery and punishing the family by not allowing them to mourn for the suicide.
However, I will grant that there are some differences. For example, under early Church law, a failed suicide would be executed. We would not do that (as there is apparently no punishment in the Torah for attempted murder. We would just release the attempted suicide to try again). Likewise, in many jurisdictions, a suicide’s property was forfeit; we do not do that as well, as we allow a suicide’s estate to pass on to his heirs as in a “normal” death.
The WolfFebruary 13, 2012 2:41 am at 2:41 am #859390Avi KParticipant
Anyway, it is almost impossible to say that it was ladaat as almost everyone who does this either does not do so in front of two kosher witnesses (so that maybe it was an accident or a murder meant to lok like a suicide) or is unbalanced. Once a well-known Jewish politician in NYC was found dead, apparently by his own hand, in the middle of a corruption investigation. He was buried in the regular section of a Jewish cemetary.March 13, 2012 9:52 pm at 9:52 pm #859391postalMember
White bridal gown
Wedding ring for brideMarch 13, 2012 11:41 pm at 11:41 pm #859392i am hereMember
an on a side point the music in the frum world most of it is totality goyish and thats what most pple. listen and dance to and play by chasunas. and its taken from the goyim but minhagim that r taken and taken away (so called) we still do thats what we r all just talking about it all comes from the same things.
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