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To asherrgg
Beautifully said, but you’re wasting your time talking to this atheist. He has stated that G-d has no right to tell us how to live our lives because that’s an infringement on our personal freedom. You’re assuming that he’s young because he writes like a stupid spoiled brat, but he’s an adult who just went through a nasty divorce and he’s angry at Judaism because he blames his Rabbis for getting a bad settlement. Ignore this Kofer. If you read his posts you’ll see that he says anything that’s Torahdig.
What was the Torah written for tho? To help us navigate life. So are you fallowing the Torah or people lol
And you still need to use discernment when listening to others to make sure what they say is in alignment with truth because otherwise your just appealing to authority and becoming a victim of that.
Fallowing blindly is not a virtue.
Faith is not fallowing authority. Lol you have it all wrong. Backwards.
Faith is fallowing God and trusting in God because you know his wisdom and choices for your life is better and wiser then yoursYour literally talking about blind faith…in a person. Compelelty telling yourself you have no ability to critically think
Idolitry literallyAlso. You don’t just fallow because someone told you it’s the truth it has to _be_ truth and pass the scrutiny of truth
@nevauh. You made a few assumptions in my words so they fit in to your argument. I doesn’t look like you paid attention to my point so I’ll try again, this time even clearer. We believe hashem gave us the torah at har sinai. Hashem giving us the torah means the torah is the TRUTH. Life is what we have to live the truth. We must look in to the torah to identify the truth, and, how to navigate out path toward the truth. Being that the torah is so great in size and depth, we follow those who studied big amounts and understand. Hashem gave humans the tools to learn the torah, understand it, it make decisions that put it into practice. I think I made it clear.
On another note, you say that “What was the Torah written for tho? To help us navigate life.” It sounds like you think that life has meaning in it of itself and the torah is just a guide how to navigate “life”, whatever that is. What’s the purpose of life according to you?@qwerty613. I understand your concern, I still think that nobody addressed his argument and it’s not a hard one. In addition, Your opinion of not arguing with a kofer is a good geder, but when this content is public, and people see this, I think it is of the benefit to address his argument.
To ashergg
He’s a hardcore atheist and will never budge. As someone wrote in a different thread, he left the religion when his wife divorced him and his Rabbi sided with his wife. He thus blames G-d and Judaism for all his problems. I’ve been needling him to come clean and admit the truth, but he keeps offering his koferdig platitudes. I’ll follow this thread because I like you and your writing style, but he’s a lost cause, IMHO.
Qweurty I’m not an atheist. Clearly you don’t read my posts. But ok. Go take your meds
Ashergg. The Torah is the truth because it actually mirrors the truth. Not because it was given at har sinia and holds authority. It’s not about authority but how it guides us through reality.
it passes the scrutiny test of fitting exactly what truth is. Let’s differentiate sheeple speak from reality. You can look at life and it will mirror the Torah exactly the two are a symbiotic mirror of the other.
The Torah is a guide for life that means it must mirror life exactly. And it does when read in context. God gave tools to humans to navigate life and use the Torah as tool. Not the other way aroundIf I play chess. I don’t get stuck in the Manuel. I use it as a reference to guide me through the game but the Manuel has to mirror the actual game or it won’t help me navigate life
To ashergg
Do you see my point now? The kofer can only respond to me by playing the “take your meds” game. I get no pleasure from the fact that he destroyed his life. That means nothing to me. I simply want this atheist to get lost. He has stated that he writes on non-Jewish sites. He should continue. He needs all the therapy he can get. If you’ll notice. He can’t (won’t) use the word Hashem so we get the generic G-d. Now he writes that the Torah is true not because it was given at Sinai. Why is he saying that? Because one who accept that the Torah was given to Moshe at Sinai also accepts that it has been passed down seamlessly for over 3000 years by our Sages. When Nevuah showed up initially as Rescue I asked him to name his Rabbi(s). He ignored the question, because he follows no one. He believes in whatever he decides to believe in. That’s why the Rabbis don’t want him coming near his children, because they’re afraid, he’ll turn them into Goyim. He is seriously disturbed and that’s why he constantly imputes that I’m crazy. It’s projection. Don’t waste your time with him. He’s irretrievably lost. He hates me because he knows I’m right.
@nevuah The torah is the truth, we know that because it was given by hashem. In the torah (which is the truth), there are rules to live by, and ideas to be guided by. You keep circling back to authority and i’m not sure why it even comes in. In the torah which is the book of truth, there is a level of authority presented in. There are mitzvos we understand and mitzvos we don’t understand, but we keep all because the book of truth commands us to. In addition, the book of truth also tells us “על־פִּי �”ַתּוֹרָ�” אֲשֶׁר יוֹרוּךָ וְעַל־�”ַמִּשְׁפָּט אֲשֶׁר־יֹאמְרוּ לְךָ תַּעֲשֶׂ�” לֹא תָסוּר מִן־�”ַ�”ָּ�’ָר אֲשֶׁר־יַ�’ִּי�”וּ לְךָ יָמִין וּשְׂמֹאל׃”, which is an element of authority by definition. People listen to daas torah not because they are authority, rather because they are closer to the truth. I’m not talking for everyone, I’m sure some people don’t know how to think and solely rely on authority, but most people contain consciousness and think for themselves.
Authority is not truth, but truth is authority. Not that one shall follow truth in a subserviently manor, rather because it’s the truth.Because qwuery your an unhinged extremist that needs to calm down. I don’t address anyone else the same way probably because they don’t treat me the same way
Again ashreg things are only true if they _are_ true.
Lol
Anyone of authority can say anything is true and you’ll fallow it cuz authority says so, that’s dangerous ground your stepping in because your not willing to use critical thinking we are not blind followers. And we were not destined to be. The reason being is even in the inherint way the Torah is written in parable form, third person, so a person can read it and gain wisdom and understanding not because they are “afraid” and feel compelled because they realize the wisdom therein and understand its moral direction.
There’s a fine line between blind fallowing and understanding wisdom and good sense.
Also its revealed in the way that God is hidden, meaning that people are not born into some form of a strict coded mindset but kind of have to find God on their journey of life.
This shows that a person was given the freedom to do so and find the truth as they live.
Otherwise God would probably make himself very clear to everyone, and there would be no arguments at allThe point of earth is to see how people behave despite not being forced to do so.
Anything that is forced on anyone is any biblical.
We are not free from the consenquences of choices cuz reality responds to our choices but we are free to find the truth and whoever says otherwise is living by antibiblical principlesTo ashergg
You almost have it, but I’ll fill in what you’re missing. When Nevuah showed up about three or four months ago he called himself rescue. At that time his Kefirah was blatant. What he said is that G-d doesn’t want “sheeple” who blindly follow what they’re told in the Torah, rather He wants people to use their free will and only keep those Mitzvahs that make sense. I then challenged him to explain the logic of one being put to death for carrying his keys in the public domain on Shabbos. He refused to answer which likely means that he does so. When he says that he isn’t an atheist he means that he accepts the concept of a G-d, but not a G-d who commands us to follow the Torah. That’s why he danced around the words Har Sinai in his last post. He probably accepts that G-d gave the Torah to Moshe, but now he thinks it’s our job to interpret the Torah according to our logic. Clearly, he’s a Kofer and so there’s no point trying to continue this discussion. He’s also a total idiot and so he’ll probably play the Qwerty take your meds game. My suspicion is that he’s been diagnosed with serious mental disabilities and so he’s projecting his infirmity on me.
כִּי־יִפְלָא מִמְּךָ �”ָ�’ָר לַמִּשְׁפָּת �’ֵּין �”ָּם לְ�”ָם �’ֵּין �”ִּין לְ�”ִין וּ�’ֵין � ֶ�’ַע לָ� ֶ�’ַע �”ִּ�’ְרֵי רִי�’ֹת �’ִּשְׁעָרֶיךָ וְקַמְתָּ וְעָלִיתָ אֶל־�”ַמָּקוֹם אֲשֶׁר־יִ�’ְ�–ַר יְ�”וָ�” אֱלֹ�”ֶיךָ �’ּוֹ
Translation: “If a matter too hard for you in judgment arises between blood and blood, between plea and plea, or between stroke and stroke, even matters of controversy within your gates, then you shall arise and go up to the place which the LORD your God shall choose.”וּ�’ָאתָ אֶל־�”ַכֹּ�”ֲ� ִים �”ַלְוִיִּם וְאֶל־�”ַשֹּׁפֵט אֲשֶׁר יִ�”ְיֶ�” �’ַּיָּמִים �”ָ�”ֵם וְ�”ָרַשְׁתָּ וְ�”ִ�’ִּי�”וּ לְךָ אֵת �”ְּ�’ַר �”ַמִּשְׁפָּט
Translation: “And you shall come to the priests, the Levites, and to the judge who shall be in those days; and you shall inquire, and they shall declare to you the sentence of judgment.”וְעָשִׂיתָ עַל־פִּי �”ַ�”ָּ�’ָר אֲשֶׁר יַ�’ִּי�”וּ לְךָ מִן־�”ַמָּקוֹם אֲשֶׁר יִ�’ְ�–ַר יְ�”וָ�” וְשָׁמַרְתָּ לַעֲשׂוֹת כְּכָל־אֲשֶׁר יוֹרֻךָ
Translation: “And you shall do according to the tenor of the sentence which they shall declare unto you from that place which the LORD shall choose; and you shall observe to do according to all that they shall teach you.”עַל־פִּי �”ַתּוֹרָ�” אֲשֶׁר יוֹרֻךָ וְעַל־�”ַמִּשְׁפָּט אֲשֶׁר יֹאמְרוּ לְךָ תַעֲשֶׂ�” לֹא תָסוּר מִן־�”ַ�”ָּ�’ָר אֲשֶׁר יַ�’ִּי�”וּ לְךָ יָמִין וּשְׂמֹאל
Translation: “According to the law which they shall teach thee, and according to the judgment which they shall tell thee, thou shalt do; thou shalt not turn aside from the sentence which they shall declare unto thee, to the right hand, nor to the left.”“If a matter too hard for you in judgment arises between blood and blood, between plea and plea, or between stroke and stroke, even matters of controversy within your gates”
Does not translate to every halachic issue that you come across in daily life lol.It’s about disputes between family and controversy that cannot be figured out among the specific people that are involved in those disputes.
Please read the text in context instead of pulling out sentences to push some control agenda thanks@nevuah. If you want, we could get into a conversation about defining truth, but i think you keep dodging my main point. I’ll assume that you agree that hashem exists, and that he gave us the torah, which means that the torah is true. In the torah there are rules and ideas that are true. Humans shall look in the book of truth and live by those rules and ideas for a truthful life. One of those ideas mentioned in the torah is to follow the torah, which is in fact repeated many times in devarim. If the book of truth tells you to obey the rules, by definition that’s the truth.
Tell me where i’m wrong. be specific. You keep avoiding this point. please be clear on what you disagree.
Thank you.
To ashergg
You’re doing a great job of engaging this Kofer. He thinks he can Pasken from Posukim. So, he finds a verse(s) that he can twist to fit his atheistic agenda. Again, he has stated clearly and he’s saying it again in this post that we should only follow those laws of the Torah that make sense to “HIM.” He decided that he has the right to decide which of the 613 Mitzvahs we should keep. I know that you want to get through to him, but it’s not possible. He’s an atheist and an idolater. He worships himself, believing that he can tell G-d which laws apply today. He knows that he has rejected our religion, but he could care less. He constantly speaks of a loving G-d who will never punish anyone if they feel that certain laws are restrictive. He’s not only a Kofer Befarhesia he’s also a Chotei Umachti because he’s trying to convince people to join his invented religion. It is what it is.
To Nevuah
Everyone thinks about you as I do including your family. What sets me apart is that I’m speaking out because I want you to get lost. Despite what you would like to believe a Jew doesn’t have the right to create his own G-d.
To ashergg
Has he not said enough to make you accept that what I’m saying is true?
מש�” ק�’ל תור�” מסי� י ומסר�” לי�”ושע וי�”ושע ל�-ק� ים ו�-ק� ים ל� �’יאים ו� �’יאים מסרו�” לא� שי כ� סת �”�’�”ול�”
From there it continued to the ת� אים and אמוראים and the rest is history. We don’t learn hal
achos from pesukim anymore. We learn the translation of the words and we look to Rashi to understand what it means. Rashi didn’t make anything up. He used all the knowledge up to his time to explain the passuk. Everything we follow today is a continuation. There are many “flavors” of Rabbanim today. Find one that fits for you.Qwerty I said let’s make sure we are translating the rules _correctly_ if you want to call that pick and choose. Great. You can’t read then clearly, can you. Also if your going to accuse me of “pick and choose” you pick and choose what to take out of context to push your extreme dogmatic agenda. Control for you is how you operate. I don’t believe control comes from a Godly source. Fear/control/dogma/extremism
What does those things reproduce? Unhealthy fearful people
If the Torah was a guide for mankind don’t you think it would find the most operative way for someone, a human, to have robust health, emotionally/physically/ spiritually. Exactly. That means the rules need to be wholesome and align with how humans operate
Discipline/love/principles/understanding/authority/truth/wisdom/@qwert613 I hear what you’re saying but your method is not effective, evidently.
@nevuah I take it that you agree to what i wrote above.Qweurty I’m glad you want me to get lost, now I understand your motive but not sure I will. Ok?
Pekak I understand where you are coming from but like broken telephone if the actual message gets watered down to the point that it becomes agenda driven and doesn’t respect the actual translation anymore maybe it’s time we go back to the original intent.
Also I don’t think when they were “passing it down through that shurah of people the message was meant to get watered down to the point it doesn’t respect the actual text?To ashergg
I don’t understand what you mean that my method isn’t effective. I’m not trying to rehabilitate nevuah, he’s way past the fiftieth level of Tumah. If you mean something else, please explain. I like you and I understand that you have a good heart, but he’s a psychotic monster who thinks he can tell Hashem how to run the world.
Sorry ashreg didn’t see that you answered me. Again. Truth is only true if it passes the scrutiny of truth.
God says to be mindful of fallowing _moral code_ cuz there are great consequences in not doing so.
The rules are only by definition the truth because they _are_ true not because they are written in the book. Or any book.
The book codafies morality and other rules, not the other way around. That means it’s mirror of reality, not because it says so because it is.
Your coming from an authority perspective. It is written therefore it must be true
I’m coming from the opposite way, it mirrors reality by being true therefore it is true.
These are two different starting points.
The reason why it was given not at the creation of the world’s is because humanity needed a guide. Thus its not about authority but about guidance
Everything written there in is good sense to fallow.
The Torah is a mirror of reality. Exactly.
For example…. it says the sins of the father will be passed down 7 generations, this is not only because God will punish you but also because things are passed down geneticly and metaphysically for 7 generations sometimes 4.
The Torah codafies what reality already is. And also gives much more in depth guidance to those who do listen.
Also. It doesn’t say “listen” it says “hearken”
Which means something much deeper then listen. hearken is a word used for “you shall hearken to my words because they are good for you”
There is a huge difference between listen and hearken.
Everything written in the Torah still respects the will of the person. And uses moral guidence sense and wisdom to guide a person’s nature.
It does not force. It confirms.
Literally definitions without wisdom misses the intent behind the words.I think what we are both doing is looking at it from different perspectives. I don’t think one is more wrong then the other, but I do think fallowing anything blindly without critical thinking, can lead a person down a path of shirking personal responsibility which is in direct contradiction of reality where moral reasoning is neccisary for responsible choices. Reality requires us to use critical thinking in all scenarios to be able to weigh what is the right and wrong decision in any given scenario. “becausee that’s what I was told to do” doesn’t always align with whatever is going on in life. And also can’t be an excuse because God doesn’t say anything directly to us. the torah is written in third person to a biblical people of the past thus its parables and guidance is meant to be internalized by virtue of its stories, moral direction and understanding of gods authority so that when we are in the grand scheme of a complicated life, its moral directions helps guide us through the complexities of all decision making. it does not in any way stop a person from free will moral reasoning which is neccisary for dealing with all different scenarios in real life but it adds wisdom and discernment and guidance through the trajectory of life. It is a book that is internalized by virtue of reading it not because it “says” so in threatening do or die manner but because it’s wisdom lives within us as we live.
It doesn’t override personal responsibility it guides it.
Not sure if I’m making senseThe Torah isn’t written to a biblical people of the past. It’s written to us. It isn’t parables. When we read Krias Shema every day, in the second parsha we are mekabel the Ol Mitzvos that Hashem commands us every single day.
I hear you and your right it was written to us that wasn’t my point. It was written in third person context talking to a third party.
And yes it isn’t parables lots of times
But it is filled with stories, written in parabolic language to glean moral lessons and teach inherint truths written into the code of realityCase in point: “parable is a short, simple narrative using human characters to illustrate a single moral or religious lesson, functioning as an extended simile where the entire story points to one central truth. In contrast, an allegory is an extended metaphor in which nearly every character, object, and event symbolizes specific abstract ideas or real-world entities, requiring the reader to decode multiple layers of meaning throughout the narrative”
@nevuah “The rules are only by definition the truth because they _are_ true not because they are written in the book. Or any book.” Well, Truth is by definition true, not because of any other factors. How we know it’s the truth is because it’s from hashem. It’s true that the torah mirrors the truth, but we must follow it not because it’s convenient, rather because we know it’s hashem’s will and we are bis nation and took it upon ourselves to follow the torah. That doesn’t in any way take away from the fact that the torah mirrors the truth, and that in most cases it would be in our convenience. In addition, many people have a different “truth” then we we do. It’s highlighted in the progressive world where people don’t have any beliefs, rather intuitive “morals” and lot’s of their “morals” is up for discussion. I don’t see how you have an established “truth” outside of the torah, and the torah “mirrors” that truth.
To sum it up, we don’t look into the torah because there’s a truth outside of it which is mirrored in it, rather because its the word of hashem and we live by his words. It doesn’t change the fact that it’s the truth, it’s the incentive behind following the torah.To pekak
Bottom line. The psychofer ignores those parts of the Torah which prescribe the laws. The first Rashi in Breishis says that the Torah should have started with
Hachodesh Hazeh since this was the first Mitzvah given to the Jews as a nation. The Torah is, first and foremost, a book of laws. The stories are also essential and they teach us Menschlickeit, something that atheist knows nothing about.Ashregg not everyone, actually most humans don’t operate like that.
Lol most people, not you of course cuz your a perfect robot, can’t live like that, simply because it feels like slavery. Again, the Torah was not written directly to us. But was written about our ancestors so we can gain knowledge and wisdom to guide us through reality.
God hides himself from the world to give us that free agency so we don’t feel confined to a doctrine or dogmatic control thinking.
If that makes you happy. Which I’m sure it does not lol. Then so be it but I don’t think humanity was designed to fallow that way. I think humanity was designed to fallow sense, wisdom, direction, morals, truth, discipline, quite in the exact format the Torah was originally written. But we don’t read the direct format anymore honestly and I think we have thus drifted far away from our own humanity and realistic thinking. That original format doesn’t subvert the self. Or ask you to give up the self for blind ideals. It guides the self, intact.
Your coming from a top down version of what the biblical text is trying to convey “whatever it says I listen” but that’s not how the Torah conveys itself. The Torah conveys itself in allagorical, story form so you constantly learn new and deeper wisdom Everytime you read it and as you live life its wisdom comes alive. More and more.
giving up their entire soul in order to fallow a “doctrine” and calling that virtue is litterally selling your soul to something you don’t fully understand. I don’t think that’s piousness I thinks that dishonesty. And everyone knows, maybe won’t admit it outwardly, but everyone knows when they are lying to themselves.
If thats what makes you happy and feeling more pios i cant help but think that you don’t have a grasp of your own inner workings of how humanity truly operates.
You are not living from your true self. You are operating from a fabricated part of what someone else decided you should be.
If that makes you “happy” so be it.To ashergg
Do you not understand that you can’t get through to the Kofer? He has no interest in the truth.
Qwerty people are allowed to have different opinions about life. .the cool thing about life is that people have different perspectives of the same thing, giving more clarity and perfection to the whole picture. You can’t do that with one way of thinking. Sorry.
You want me to force myself to agree with you?
You didn’t bring much argument so simply I don’t.
I also have a perspective that is much wider then yours simply cuz I see things differently.
If you want to call that a “kofer”
Then your missing the point.
Take your fascist, extremism and drown it in the local river ok? Thanks@nevuah ” the Torah was not written directly to us. But was written about our ancestors so we can gain knowledge and wisdom to guide us through reality.” It indeed was written directly to us. Your talking about a specific portion, and huge portions talk direct with very specific orders. You keep making yourself oblivious to half the torah to avoid your argument falling apart.
“God hides himself from the world to give us that free agency so we don’t feel confined to a doctrine or dogmatic control thinking.” Totally your assumption. Hashem hides to we have free will. If he’s in the open, free will don’t exist. Facts don’t care about your feelings.
“giving up their entire soul in order to fallow a “doctrine” and calling that virtue is litterally selling your soul to something you don’t fully understand.” The idea of living by fully understanding is a direct contradiction to the most foundational mitzva, emunah. It means to believe in hashem and that he’s one. It’s impossible to “fully understand” or grasp hashem, let alone anything spiritual, but we BELIEVE. Apparently you don’t believe in believing, or don’t “fully undertand” it. But don’t make that the torah. We should make sense if things to the best of our ability, but TRUTH is not defined by what we understand, Truth is truth. We live by the truth, and try understanding to the best of our ability.
I could sit here all day and go through each argument or you just pay attention.
ps. you keep speaking about being “happy” e.g. “if that’s what makes you happy” etc etc like happiness defines truth. and again, facts don’t care about your feelings.
@qwerty613 i enjoy it.Emunah isn’t blind faith in a doctrine. Emunah is faith in God. Those are two different things. Sorry. I can go through something difficult in life but have faith that everything is going to be ok because I understand and believe God will actually come through because he always does. That’s emunah. Lol that’s not “blind faith” in doctrine thinking. Your mixing that up a smidge. “It’s impossible to grasp anything spiritual”. That I don’t think is complelty factual. But ok.
You live by doctrine not by truth but believe what you want, also, What’s the difference between free will and free agency. Lol same thing
I absolutely believe in believing. And having faith but _also_ using discernment which you were created with, so that you know for sure your fallowing gods law, correctly.
Truth can also be understood by mere humans, because truth is a concept that humans can easily comprehend lol.
Happiness, your correct doesn’t define truth,
But internal happiness states, points us towards whether we are in alignment with our true selves.
Our state of mind is actually the way we discern if something is in alignment with our ability to handle life circumstances.
For example, if your state if mind is miserable and you feel like a slave, you _know_ inherently something is wrong. Whether it’s your belief system or people around you being too controlling.
Your state of mind is somewhat a compass in many ways. Not all ways but many ways.Also why would God give us the Torah and or “guidance”?
To make us miserable? I think not.@nevuah “believe God will actually come through because he always does”. coming through i understand means by your terms, what makes you happy with your “narrow” peception of things. faith is believing that hashem is in control, and he’s inherently good, so your difficulty is completely in your perception. And yes, one can’t grasp something without experiencing it in some way, even vision arguably, thinking is speculation.
You believe, and also discern, that’s not an issue. Most people do that actually. You didn’t invent thinking. Making something align with our true selves must start from outside, from the facts, and we look into ourselves to fix ourselves. That is exactly what avodas hamiddos is. It does not mean tweaking the truth to feel good.To ashergg
If you enjoy “fighting” with the atheist go for it. Thank you for calling him out. He doesn’t understand that I could care less what he says about me.
Ashregg that’s not contradicting what I said at all. But ok. Your using different wording to say the same exact thing.
Maybe you should realize that we are saying the exact same thing but giving a slightly different perspective on it which actually brings more clarity.
I just think your perception is slightly rooted in control thinking which in my belief isnt complelty realistic or healthy. Just my take.
Second “narrow perception” sure buddy.
If I was falling off a bridge and God saved me somehow that’s not “narrow perception” that’s actually being saved by Devine forces. That’s fact. Not “narrow perception”
If I was going into a meeting and I was nervous and I asked God “give me the strength to pull through this”
And I magicly got through the meeting. And said all the right things and got whatever I came in for. That’s not “narrow perception” that’s dealing with reality
If I didn’t have money one month and I had no idea where my money would come from and yet somehow it worked out by miracles. That’s not “narrow perception”
It goes on and on and on and on.
Your litterally putting God in a box in some way. Saying he can only come through in a specific way otherwise I don’t believe it was from God. Or your saying that my lived circumstances somehow doesn’t point to Devine forces because it’s my own “narrow perception” and doesn’t fit your ideological drivel.
Reality isn’t easy. I _need_ God to servive. Litterly. Yet he _always_ pulls through and delivers better then I could ever anticipate. Sometimes it takes effort. Other times it takes faith and a little trust. And yet other times it takes me understanding that I can’t do it alone to reach out and allow God to work within the framework of what is needed at _any_ given moment. That’s not “narrow feel good perception” that’s litterally living in reality.
I’m curious tho. do you even believe in God? I don’t think so. You don’t believe in God. Actually you prob don’t associate or even ask God for help when you need it because you don’t even know he exists in the first place and has the capability to work within the framework of all your circumstances to help you through the extreme responsibility of living in this world. The extreme complexity of living in this world. I bet you believe it’s all up to you. Well it’s not all up to you.
Our reality and problems are our circumstances. And if somehow my circumstances no matter what I’m in somehow get fixed, better then i could ever anticipate. That’s not “narrow perception” thats actually _living_ breathing. And being. And walking with the DevineThess arent “feel good ideals” this is the foundation of having faith.
Aligning with truth comes from inside not outside. As truth and thoughts already come from within the mind and need by virtue to be filtered through the intellect. The truth doesn’t separate us from ourselves actually but makes us more in tune with our human nature. Conformity isn’t a virtue its the death of the self
@nevauh I’m not putting anything in a box, I believe that hashem runs the world with a grand plan, a bigger picture. If so, I don’t see the master plan, all i know is that I’m a character in it. I do have an individual purpose, like every moving piece in a big plan. I know that my anything not going my way, or having chance of failure is either good for me, or part of the grand plan. I do believe and i do pray, and my prayer is that it whatever the outcome is, it shall result in me delivering with utmost precision with hashems will. The difference between me and you is, you believe in hashem and measure your circumstances and pray so the results should be specifically how you measured success. I on the other hand, know that I’m a soldier in a big army, with a grand goal, and pray that whatever that goal is should succeed and i should have the koach to contribute the most of my ability to the cause. Success how I measure it is irelivant.
Ashreg I wouldn’t say so because when circumstances play out they always sirprize me by being better then I anticipated or could ever dream up which points to the fact that God Is more capable then me of figuring out my own circumstances.
There were times in my life where I tried to deliver on my own terms and I always failed. That’s where faith comes in because I’m human and fallable and all I have is the direction and trust it takes to move forward and let God do what He does best. Dream of a better outcome then I can dream up for myself.
I don’t think we are complelty contradicting each other but ok@nevuah Let me be a bit clearer. No, we are not contradicting each other, we are on 2 different levels. let me give you an example. 2 soldiers hit Normandy on d-day. one soldier’s thoughts are that he survives, gets lots of kills. In the end, not only did that happen, he also got very good meals and a tour on eiffel tower. Another solder hits the beach with the hope that the allies should have the utmost victorious win possible, he should contribute the most to the victory and evil should fall. soldier 1 looked has a vision of individual success, soldier 2 has a grand vision. When it comes to belief and prayer, the difference is, one sees himself as the purpose and goal, and hashem helps him in ways he couldn’t imagine, so his faith and prayer is somewhat of a personal benefit and satisfaction thing. Another person views hashem as the ultimate purpose and goal, so he directs his faith and prayer toward the grand goal, the big picture, the will of hashem which is getting close to him on a personal level and signifying his name in the physical world.
Tell me if I’m clear enough.To ashergg
I give you credit for dealing with Nevuah. You seem to have tamed the wild beast, because he’s actually showing some sign of humanity. Keep up the good work. You’re proving me wrong and I don’t mind admitting when I’m wrong.
To ashergg
I give you credit for dealing with Nevuah. You seem to have tamed the wild beast, because he’s actually showing some sign of humanity. Keep up the good work. You’re proving me wrong and I don’t mind admitting when I’m wrong.
“wild beast”
Who talks like that about their fellow man
Your insufferable qwerty just take your disgusting charachtor and leave nobody wants you here.The lack of humanity comes from yourself qwerty it’s so lauaphable honestly how everything you say about others is a direct reflection of your own disgusting behavior.
But its ok keep talkingAshreg I’m not sure it matters how you view life.
One is a forced view based off of, conforming your needs to a bigger picture and one is honest view of life because it’s focused on reality.
Just because I pray for myself and my own circumstances (I’m the one who has to deal with them hello) doesn’t mean your more virtuous cuz your putting the whole before the self.
It’s still based on circumstances in some ways because what got that soldier to feel that way? Perhaps he simply has everything he needs and therefore focuses on the bigger picture or he feels more virtuous by focusing on the bigger picture which is a form of self deception but go you for being self deceptive.
I’m not sure what makes the bigger picture more virtuous.
The bigger picture regardless in my view is gods responsibility. God is orchestrating the bigger picture and I can still focus on my immediate needs and struggles and also appreciate the bigger picture as well. One doesn’t really negate the other. And also who cares, it’s like saying if I drink water when I drink it I blink twice. And the other guy doesn’t. Your still drinking water. There’s nothing more virtuous about different thoughts people have or different ways of looking at things.
It’s all based on necessity and purpous.
I also don’t think you can have a real relationship if your not asking for things you need and focusing on your actual problems. Lol
I can focus on my problems and also the bigger picture if that’s what I feel like doing.
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