Hagbah (and Gelilla)

Home Forums Litoeles H'rabim! Hagbah (and Gelilla)

Viewing 42 posts - 1 through 42 (of 42 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #590121

    JayMatt19
    Participant

    This is a big peeve of mine, but I wanted to share some thoughts with the CR about doing hagbah. Some of these are halachas, and others are just some helpful hints.

    1. When lifting the Torah prior to the Hagbah lift (when doing the “lift and drag” so that it is easier to tilt/lift) Do this with the sefer closed so not to ruin the klaf on the bottom of the sefer. Once you now have the Torah situated in this position with part off the table, now open the sefer before you lift.

    2. Seam in the middle, make sure you get 3 columns and make sure you turn so everyone can see the open sefer. There is no need to do 7 columns and 4 Torah Portions when doing Hagbah, I have seen this turn out poorly.

    3. There is a wonderful trick when doing Hagbah during Devarim or Bereishis, hold the side with all the klaf square against your chest, with the other arm (holding the light part) as far out as you need. This will give you great balance holding the Torah, even if you are using your weaker hand. This trick especially comes in handy on Simchas Torah doing the “reverse hagbah”

    4. Make sure gelilla is ready and a chair is waiting for you.

    Anyone else have tips to share?

    #1170643

    YW Moderator-72
    Participant

    In many Shuls they let a boy younger than Bar Mitzvah do Gelilla. It makes the boy feel like a part of the Shul and encourages them to participate. When this is done a few things should be considered…

    1) Is it a large Torah scroll that will be above the reach of the boy to roll and put on the mantle?

    2) If the one honored with Hagbah needs help can the boy help and if not, the gabbai or someone needs to be there to assist.

    3) It should be explained to the boy not to touch the the klaf and if it slides while rolling to lift it with the gartel.

    4) Is it a relative novice doing Hagbah, he might need more help than a boy can provide.

    5) Remember that gelilla is an honor to receive and that even in Shuls that do give it to children Men should not be excluded from receiving it.

    #1170644

    feivel
    Participant

    “Anyone else have tips to share? “

    yes

    1. when sitting down after Hagboh, keep the aitzim above your waist, out of respect.

    2. while holding the Sefer, hold it with the front facing you, in the manner you would hug someone

    3. this is for the sliach Tzibur, not the Hagboh: when returning the Sefer to the Aron, do not stop to allow people to kiss the Sefer. the Torah proceeds, let them follow after it.

    and certainly dont bend the Sefer down for children to kiss the it. it is wonderful to teach children love for the Torah, but they must rise to the Torah, the Torah should not come down to them. this is a lesson for the adults who are watching as well.

    #1170645

    It is also very important to know that when getting an aliya you should NOT touch the Sefer Torah with your bare hands, but must use a talis. Bare hands shouldn’t be touching the klaf.

    #1170646

    SheitlQueen
    Member

    Here’s a practical tip- watch out for ceiling fans and low celings.

    I’ve seen the tips of the etz chaim chipped off from fans, and more

    than once just about seen a hole put into a celing.

    Check overhead before hagbah 🙂

    #1170647

    cherrybim
    Participant

    “Anyone else have tips to share? “

    Yes, major.

    At ALL times, make sure that someone is holding onto the Torah after the Hagba guy is seated until the galila is totally completed. And make sure that everything is within reach od the Galila guy; it’s even a mitzva to hand him the items as he’s doing it.

    I have seen, several times, where the Galila guy leaves the sefer to fetch the items and the heavy sefer starts to fall backwards or to the side.

    #1170648

    feivel
    Participant

    my own personal mahalach:

    i hold onto the Sefer Torah

    i dont stand up and give it to the Baal Tefilah

    i remain sitting and only loosen my grip so he can take it from me

    #1170649

    YW Moderator-72
    Participant

    if you have Hagbah on Shabbos Mevorchim don’t forget to stand by the Bimah next to the Chazzon when he starts Yehi Ratzon…

    (the above comment was not directed at feivel – just a general comment)

    #1170654

    BP Zaideh
    Member

    A suggetion to those Minayanim with a considerable Very Junior poulation have a stool handy for the ???? ?????

    and certainly dont bend the Sefer down for children to kiss the it. it is wonderful to teach children love for the Torah, but they must rise to the Torah, the Torah should not come down to them. this is a lesson for the adults who are watching as well.

    must be the reason I stubled on to this thread

    It is something I have been doing for the longest time.

    #1170655

    Another idea

    #1170656

    Another idea ……???? ?? ?’ ?? ?? ?? ???? ?? ????? ????? ?????? ?????

    #1170657

    telegrok
    Member

    alternative to unrolling after the sefer is lifted – bring the lower atzei chaim a few inches beneath the edge of the bimah, then unroll and lift – that way, when you use the edge of the bimah as a fulcrum, the bottom edge of the k’laf is cleared –

    but, yes, a lot of hagboho and gelilah is common sense, something too often lacking

    #1170658

    real-brisker
    Member

    Very important tip – DONT TAKE HAGBAH IF YOU THINK YOU CANT HANDLE IT! I’ve seen way too many times the torah cvs getting to close to falling (that gabbi bikuer should know this tip)

    #1170659

    twisted
    Participant

    As a long time BK and curator of old Sifre Torah, I tried to teach people not to pull the sefer down and then right it by pushing it against the table edge. This puts huge back pressure on the klaf, and it can crack letters. As a habit, any crease in an old klaf ( and in Pinchas in general) I scan for damage along the crease. The ideal M.O. is to open to three columns and a seam, and use the fulcrum of your wrists, or against the galgalim to lift the sefer without trauma to the klaf. If space allows, you can also stand with legs one in front of the other, step forward and raise the sefer moving forward in and arc. This only works where there is nothing (bookcase, lamps etc) at the front of the shulchan. There is also cause, in some sefarim NOT to roll to a seam. Chizku V’imtzu.

    #1170660

    mamashtakah
    Member

    If someone younger than bar-mitzvah is doing hagba, make sure there is an adult nearby to help out if necessary – ensure the klaff is wrapped tightly, ensure the kid can get the cover back on, that sort of thing.

    I once heard about kissing the Torah as it passes by that one should kiss it directly, not using a hand, siddur, or talit. The person who said this – a Rav at Ohr Samayach, name not remembered – said that unless you kiss your wife using your hand, siddur, or talit, you should not kiss the Torah that way either.

    #1170661

    telegrok
    Member

    Twisted – thank you – I never considered possible trauma to the back of the k’laf by using the bima edge as a fulcrum

    #1170662

    real-brisker
    Member

    mamashtakah – I never heard of or saw a kid youger than bm get hagbah!

    #1170663

    BP Zaideh
    Member

    Where do you daven? Senior citizens home?

    #1170664

    real-brisker
    Member

    wellmeaning – You saw a kid under 13 get hagbah???

    #1170665

    d a
    Member

    feivel

    2. while holding the Sefer, hold it with the front facing you, in the manner you would hug someone

    Is that true? On Simchas Torah, when dancing with a Torah, do you hold the Sefer backwards?

    #1170666

    mamashtakah
    Member

    Ok, ok, I made a slight mistake – I meant a kid under bar mitzva getting gelila.

    Cut me some slack, ok?

    #1170667

    BP Zaideh
    Member

    Real brisker

    U gave me a taste of my own medicine

    that was really brisk (in english) doubt “our” comments

    would qualify as brisker ???? ?????

    mamashtakah Yes it is a very common occurence in ??% of shuls

    #1170668

    I am nobody and only came to seek information, not to question those who were here before me. First, my intended purpose…

    Has anyone seen or heard why Masecheth Sofreem specifies three columns, please?

    #1170669

    I respect Feivel’s motive of Cvod Sfr haTorauh, but his rule re children does not go well with me. I will attempt to justify myself.

    Obviously,the Xazaun must stop to avoid injuring those sort who lower their faces to the Sfr T while it’s underway.

    What of the wheelchair bound RL? Are we to have the Sfr T join the hamon and make them feel that they’re already not min haYishuv!

    MORE…

    #1170670

    takahmamash
    Participant

    What is a “Torauh?” Did you mean “Torah?”

    And really, “Xahaun?” Are you transliterating Chinese?

    #1170671

    My response to the Feivel dictum is informed in part to this response to that brought by mamashtaka. As the London Rothschild said after Waterloo, I heard otherwise.

    Since this is not a tzneeuth.dige conversation,I would seat both opinions to each other by allowing that the opinion of the Ohr Samayach rav ha.maggeed might be ok with R’ IW if one has his own Sfr T in his home. V.kal l.hauveen.

    #1170672

    Dear tm. Based on your handle, I guess that you, as I, are an Ashcnazee. Al caul pauneem, thank you for your query.

    Xahaun is not what I wrote. Xazaun usually means Cantor or Reader in shul nowadays.

    x is not borrowed from transliteration of Chinese, where it sounds like a French J. It is borrowed from an image in the Russian alphabet that represents the German and Polish Ch.

    English Torah would have done nicely for itself , true, but that would have set a false trail regarding the other Kaumautzeem.

    Do you have any hypothesis to answer my Three Columns quest?

    #1170673

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Yes, in shuls where it is ever given to children, it should never be given to anyone over bar mitzva. If there is no child to do it, the gabbai should do it himself.

    If you are davening in such a shul, and are not a child, and are asked to do gelillah, it is appropriate to refuse, and such is the minhag of the rabbonim and talmidei chachomim that they never do gelillah in such shuls.

    I did gelillah in shul at mincha yesterday. I was asked to do hagbah, and refused because I didn’t know if it was heavy, and I save my strength for battling people on the CR.

    #1170674

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    popa_bar_abba: Please state a source for what you wrote. I have never heard that particular shitah.

    #1170675

    I think he might just have been humorously using the formula of halachos such as those about drinking havdoloh wine during the 9 Days, and assuming people would realize not to take the answer seriously. (Really, now, “such is the minhag of the rabbonim and talmidei chachomim that they never do gelillah in such shuls?” In a shul where gelilah is customarily given to a child, it would be a bizayon to give it to an adam chashuv! So I don’t think his post is to be taken at face value.)

    #1170677

    Popular-Priced Tzaddeek, is there really a transliteration

    system that uses periods in that way? (We could talk about how readers of English find words with more vowels than consonants

    And why is this “not a tzneeuth.dige conversation?”

    #1170678

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Comlink: how could it be a bizayon to give it to an odom chashuv, when gelillah is notel schar kulam and it is an honor to attend the torah? How you talk.

    #1170679

    Meno
    Participant

    “Yes, in shuls where it is ever given to children, it should never be given to anyone over bar mitzva. If there is no child to do it, the gabbai should do it himself.”

    I think this concept should be applied to other things also, such as walking around with the pushka and singing a’anim zemiros. I’ve been asked to do these things numerous times just because I was the youngest person in shul.

    Though if you want to give me candy, I’ll accept.

    #1170680

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Yes, in shuls where it is ever given to children, it should never be given to anyone over bar mitzva.

    If you are davening in such a shul, and are not a child, and are asked to do gelillah, it is appropriate to refuse…

    I did gelillah in shul at mincha yesterday.

    I guess no child under bar mitzvah ever did gelilah in the history of that shul.

    #1170681

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I was the gabbai

    #1170682

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    And it was a new shul.

    #1170683

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    And I’m a child.

    Boy, you really have no imagination.

    #1170685

    Re:ComlinkX

    As to this not being a private conversation, I felt that it was too public to carry forward with a direct criticism of the wife-kissing comparison.

    #1170686

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    I was the gabbai

    No you weren’t. You wrote that you were asked to do hagbah.

    #1170687

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    And I’m a child.

    No you aren’t. You wrote that you were asked to do hagbah.

    #1170688

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    And it was a new shul.

    Right. That’s what I said.

    #1170689

    Meno
    Participant

    “No you aren’t. You wrote that you were asked to do hagbah.”

    Well it depends how you define “child”

Viewing 42 posts - 1 through 42 (of 42 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.