Hagbah Fails

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  • #2007206
    Lostspark
    Participant

    I have never even heard of someone doing so G-d forbid it to happen, have you seen someone actually drop a Sefer Torah?

    Our shul has an extra old Sefer Torah that weighs a ton so it only comes out when needed, I’ve seen some close calls and was wondering if any one on here has seen and actual case of a Torah dropping.

    #2007271
    ujm
    Participant

    I’ve seen the guy or bochor doing hagbah hit the ceiling (and leave a dent in it) or chandelier. But that’s about it.

    #2007277
    Yserbius123
    Participant

    I don’t think I’ve seen it by Hagbah, but I saw it once by Hachnoso. The fellow wasn’t very frum and a guest of someone in shul. He was unfamiliar with putting the Torah in the Aron and dropped it when trying to lift it in. A year later he came back and for some reason the gabbai gave him Hachnoso again. This time he stumbled but managed not to drop it.

    #2007282
    provaxx
    Participant

    There was a story about a shul that had made an error calculating the size, and ended up with a sefer Torah that was too heavy to do Hagbaha.
    Better to just do g’lilah on the shulchan, rather than risk some idiot macho weightlifter dropping the sefer Torah.

    #2007284
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Several “near-drops” but never hit the floor. Typically, its a “newbie” attending a simcha given hagbah by a well-meaning gabbai. They forget (or never knew) that for a heavier sefer you need to bend the knees a bit to provide the needed upward lift and instead try to do it entirely with their wrists and arms. There was always the baal koreh/gabbai/maftir immediately nearby to lend a steady and helping hand.

    #2007288
    ujm
    Participant

    The entire kehila needs to make a taanis if chas v’shalom such a thing happens. Anyone who was present at the time who physically cannot fast, should give a notable amount of Tzedaka instead.

    #2007304

    Gabbai needs to remember who is a lefty and call them when appropriate and not call them when not appropriate.

    Sephardi Torahs are built better for Hagbah even with all the silver.

    #2007373
    twisted
    Participant

    many older seforim were made large and the style was to lime both sides of the klaf, and this makes them very heavy. Being tall and and well muscled, I was a frequent choice of gaboim. I think those that pull the sefer off the table and then lever it up can do damage by the push against the table edge
    For a medium weight I step in and sweep up with my arms in one move(a T’ai chi maneuver). For the heavies, I push the atzei chayim down using the gagalim for a fulcrum to start the lift, One Yom Kippur I was honored with hagba for Maftir, and I did the “heavy” lift. The etz from the Bereishis side broke off in my hand. With help from the baal koreh we managed to get it raised and one full circle to the right

    #2007426
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Twisted sounds like a real Hagbah Mayvin….everything he says is intuitive and logical but many of us never really stopped to think about the nuts and bolts of what would otherwise seem to be a simple act but fraught with catastrophic outcomes in the hands of an amateur.

    #2007412
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “The entire kehila needs to make a taanis if chas v’shalom such a thing happens.”
    [citation needed]

    #2007436
    mizmor
    Participant

    Iggros Moshe, Orach Chaim 3:3.

    #2007443
    mizmor
    Participant

    “The entire kehila needs to make a taanis if chas v’shalom such a thing happens“
    not exactly the entire kehilla. anyone who was present.

    it’s 40 separate days of fasting (not nights)

    “…..who physically cannot fast, should give a notable amount of Tzedaka instead.”
    not physically able is not a necessary condition, the Rabonim allow us in this weak generation to substitute Tzedekah in its place

    #2007449
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Many poskim say that only the one who dropped it fasts but others say:

    קיצור שולחן ערוך סימן כח סעיף יב
    אם נפל ספר – תורה מידו, אפילו בנרתיקו, צריך להתענות, ונוהגים שגם הרואים מתענים

    #2007453
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Aaq,

    Or even better (during the week) look and see which arm the tefillin are on

    #2007457
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    coffee addict, he could be a lefty and still put tefilin on the left hand provided he writes with his right hand. uchesavtem ukshartem.

    #2007471
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    Mizmor

    thanks!

    #2007480
    zen3344
    Participant

    2008, second Sefer. As I lifted, my right knee collapsed (had ACL reconstruction in 2000). Two guys caught me and another two caught the Sefer. I was on the table for surgery on the knee the week later. We thought I might need another ACL reconstruction, but it turned out to be “just” a meniscal tear.

    #2007479
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Probably the single most important decision for the gabbai when deciding to whom to give a kavod. If the gabbai insults some ehrliche member of the shul by giving him chamishi rather than shishi, worse case scenario is that one guy gives you a dirty look when you she’nadar him “ba’ad beis hakneses”. If the gabbai screws up in deciding who gets hagbah, the entire olam may be remembering him fondly for the next 40 days.

    #2007553
    whitecar
    Participant

    Was in a hotel in Israel, and there were a bunch of other people there as well. I would say 90% were older than 65. They gave hagbah by shachris to one of those older men, and after 3 seconds he couldn’t maintain it, and it came crashing down. Thankfully onto a table. Not sure what they were thinking.

    #2007573
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    The Kitzur uses the words roim,seeing but I think that it means being there where he becomes also responsible, so he would also need to fast.

    #2007664

    RebE > he could be a lefty and still put tefilin on the left hand

    exactly. I would prefer the gabbai not remember my full name, but simply remembering when to call me for hagbah.

    Re: broken etzim. Sounds like this twisted maneuver puts the etzim at risk and one would need to pay for, and find a servicer, for the repairs. Refuah shleima.

    #2007825
    twisted
    Participant

    Zen” Refuah shleima. I can commiserate. Many years ago had a meniscal tear excised and was good until recently as the narrowed joint space has altered my walking with balance and trip hazards. With that and some neural deficits effecting fine motor control in the hands, I can see the end of my hagbah carreer drawing closer, but baruch rofeh cholim, I have good days and have not given up just yet

    AAQ: breaking eitzim is not unheard of, certainly in older sifrei Torah. Most eitzim are mortise and tenon jointed and if the glue fails, or microorganisms eat the wood or the glue, there is little stregnth left. As it was, the sefer had shiny new double galgal eitzim that week because that bet knesset is full of peopleThat jump as such mitzvos. And this is yerushalim where two neighbors are sofrim, and i know of six or so others in the shchuna.

    #2007827
    twisted
    Participant

    Whutecar. not all over 65s are created (or maintained) equally. In four and some months I will be one of then, and with my now minor disabilities, still a force to be reckoned with Gmar chatima tova CR

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