Halocha Question – Violating a Website's Terms of Service

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  • #608937

    If someone deliberately violates a website’s terms of service, is he or she actually committing an avaira or issur (e.g. g’zaila)?

    I don’t mean things that are clearly not allowed, whether written on a website or spoken aloud, such as nivul peh, loshon hora, sheker and the like. I’m specifically referring to TOS violations, such as creating multiple screen names. I’m also not referring to possibly legitimate reasons for creating additional screen names – for privacy’s sake, because the original password was forgotten, or just because someone wanted a “better” SN – but rather someone just doing it for their own amusement and/or to bother others.

    Furthermore, I assume there’s an “I agree to abide by the conditions…” button that must be clicked – does clicking that button with the intention of not abiding by the rules constitute sheker? Do subsequent violations constitute additional “sheker” tallies?

    Yes, obviously there is one specific poster who inspired this question, but it is a serious question, not just a “shtuch” at that poster.

    Please post your halachic opinions and nothing else.

    #944008
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    I assume there’s an “I agree to abide by the conditions…” button

    1) Where?

    2) I’ve never heard of “kinyan clickiya”.

    #944009
    YW Moderator-73
    Moderator

    now let’s see if he makes a new screen name to post on this thread

    #944010
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    He’s been quite busy. The mods were asleep for a bit, but seem right on top of it now.

    #944011
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    gezeila?

    what was stolen?

    #944012

    well i dont know what the status of a website is, but the minhag hamakom on ywn is not to engage in such behaviors. If people do, then they are violating the minhag of this ‘makom,’ Perhaps a website’s terms and conditions are applicable to the dinim of a particular country. in that case, dina d’malchusah dinah.

    #944013

    DaasYochid

    1) Where?

    It’s been a while since I signed up, so I don’t recall where, how and if it exists. I assume it does, perhaps as a check box. Certainly, the site owner posts this rule clearly.

    2) I’ve never heard of “kinyan clickiya”.

    Sefer Ahavas Kessef, siman shin koof raish.

    #944014
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    The minhag hamakom is to violate every single rule in the “[sticky] [closed] ****RULES OF THE YWN COFFEE ROOM – PLEASE READ**** thread.

    #944015

    ubiquitin-

    what was stolen?

    That’s my question. Is using this site in a way its owner prohibits g’zaila?

    #944016
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    ICOT,

    1) Maybe I’ll try it. The thread I referred to is not required to be clicked on before signing on.

    2) 🙂

    #944017
    YW Moderator-73
    Moderator

    we haven’t been sleeping, he’s just been making it easier by not masking his ip.

    #944018

    DaasYochid-

    The minhag hamakom is to violate every single rule in the “[sticky] [closed] ****RULES OF THE YWN COFFEE ROOM – PLEASE READ**** thread.

    A valid point. As far as this particular policy too, there seems to be some flexibility.

    The difference I see here is similar to the difference between jaywalking and running a red light at a busy intersection – they’re both on the books, but one is clearly intended to be enforced while the other isn’t (which is also a teretz I saw to a “dina d’malchusa” question about jaywalking and other similarly unenforced laws).

    #944019

    A more direct/coherent way of putting the question(s) might be:

    1) Is a hezek being done by this behavior?

    2) If the answer to “1” is “yes”, is compensation owed?

    3) If the answer to “1” is “no”, which (if any) lavim are being violated?

    4) In a similar vein, if I allow people to cut thru my property as long as they don’t make too much noise and disturb me or my neighbors while doing so, what (if anything) are they oiver on if they deliberately make a racket while on my property?

    #944020
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    73, yes, but as he points out, he has a signature style.

    #944021
    YW Moderator-73
    Moderator

    true true

    #944022
    Ðash®
    Participant

    Furthermore, I assume there’s an “I agree to abide by the conditions…” button that must be clicked

    Not on this site. It asks for a username, email address and a CAPTCHA, and then emails a password to the email address.

    Also the Terms Of Use are located at http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/policy.php.

    #944023
    yytz
    Participant

    I’ve wondered about the related question: what about when you’re downloading software, and to complete the download it says, click here to agree you’ve read the 20 pages of rules, when of course you’ve never read the rules and neither has anyone else except the person who wrote them. It basically forces everyone to lie. We are supposed to distance ourselves from falsehood. But is it really halachically wrong?

    #944024
    DY2
    Member

    ICOT, I opened this new username, and never agreed to any terms.

    #944025
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    (Yes, that was me.)

    #944026

    rationalfrummie-

    I missed your post earlier.

    Hmmmm, that’s an interesting way of looking at it. I think that is an accurate way of describing how it looks to us, but not necessarily how it is halachikly.

    #944027

    DY2-

    DaasYochid-

    Thank you for pointing out that during the registration process there is no “I agree to abide by the rules” button, checkbox or the like required when getting a SN for this site.

    I had assumed there was, and I stand corrected.

    There is no explicit “al tnai” to abide by the rules upon registration and therefore (at least as far as I can see), there is no sheker when signing up with the intention of violating the site’s rules.

    yytz

    I don’t think it’s a problem, because there’s no real expectation that people read thru hundreds of lines containing dense legalities. It’s simply verbiage the company’s legal department came up with to protect themselves.

    I recently saw a news article about a company deliberately burying and hiding onerous changes to their TOS within the legal mumbo-jumbo. IMO this is actually somewhat dishonest on the companies’ part. (I’m not 100% positive I correctly remember which company it was, so I won’t name it, but I believe it was a cell phone service provider.)

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