December 20, 2016 12:05 am at 12:05 am #618883
Does anyone find it ironic that the holiday that celebrates victory over assimilation is often celebrated with traditions taken from the goyim, such as baking cookies and throwing parties?December 20, 2016 1:18 am at 1:18 am #1206019Moshe1994Participant
Hmm baking cookies very Goyish…December 20, 2016 1:39 am at 1:39 am #1206020Mashiach AgentMember
no we obviously have not argued enough about chanukah yet because we have still not arrived at the chanukas of the 3rd bais hamikdosh with mashiachs arrival.
time to each ask ourselves what might be some of reasons why we are not ready for the geula yet? let us know what you feel is your honest opinion why we are still in golus.
may this year chanuka arrive with mashiach coming & us lighting the 7 branch menora in the bais HamikdoshDecember 20, 2016 2:01 am at 2:01 am #1206021shebbesonianParticipant
Nope. Nobody.December 20, 2016 2:57 am at 2:57 am #1206022WolfishMusingsParticipant
I had no idea that when I bake cookies I am violating the lav of “U’v’chukosaihem lo sailaichu.” 🙁
The WolfDecember 20, 2016 9:46 am at 9:46 am #1206023
Wolf, if it helps you to be happier and to be a better Jew, and to give your kids an appreciation for Yiddishkeit and Jewish holidays,I think it’s a Mitzvah.
In any case, as long as you have hodayah at your Chanuka party, it’s fine. Sing Al Hanisim with feeling, thank your wife (according to Rav Avigdor Miller, if you don’t thank your mother/wife, your thanks to Hashem is meaningless) or she can thank you if you’re the one who made everything, enabling both of you to reach higher levels of hodaya to HaKadosh Baruch Hu.December 20, 2016 9:51 am at 9:51 am #1206024
I also think it’s a good place to mention the famous story of Rav Shach, Zatsal. When his son didn’t follow in his path, he said that it may be because they didn’t sing zmiros at the Shabbos Table (I assume he felt it was bitul Torah).
With so many kids going OTD, it’s not kidai to give up things that will help bond the family and give the kids a positive feeling for Yiddishkeit.
Obviously, the focus on Chanuka should not be on materialism, the gashmius should be of the simpler non-materialistic variety (like cookies) and for the purpose of increasing family unity and closeness to Hashem and an appreciation for Torah.December 20, 2016 7:06 pm at 7:06 pm #1206026
As if Jews don’t partake in eating treats at Yom Tov parties the rest of the year?December 20, 2016 7:13 pm at 7:13 pm #1206027nishtdayngesheftParticipant
I think it might be “ub’cookies she’lohem lo sochailu”.December 20, 2016 8:46 pm at 8:46 pm #1206028golferParticipant
Wolf, I don’t think you need to worry.
We have responsa going back hundreds of years regarding the delicacies we prepare for our Chagim. We are undoubtedly the holiest of the holy and the sweetest of the sweet in all areas of cooking, baking and frying when we celebrate.
If anything, they’re following in our footsteps.December 20, 2016 9:06 pm at 9:06 pm #1206029
Back in the day, sugar was super expensive. Only nobles could afford it.
That we can afford to bake treats in itself is cause for rolling out holy day cookies.December 20, 2016 11:51 pm at 11:51 pm #1206030
It’s not the baking of cookies that is the problem, it’s the similarity to the specific types of cookies that are a goyish holiday tradition.December 21, 2016 1:32 am at 1:32 am #1206031Neville ChaimBerlinParticipant
How has nobody mentioned giving gifts yet?
RY: What specific types of cookies? I’m not being argumentative, by the way, I’m just curious as to what you mean.December 21, 2016 1:50 am at 1:50 am #1206032iacisrmmaParticipant
Rebyidd23: what type of cookies are you referring to?December 21, 2016 2:03 am at 2:03 am #1206033
Sugar cookies in holiday-related shapes.December 21, 2016 6:25 am at 6:25 am #1206034jake joeParticipant
there a store in flatbush that chanukah to the goyish to the next level!
by placing “maccabees” in their front window like the goyim place santa!!!!December 21, 2016 7:40 am at 7:40 am #1206035
The maccabees thing could be a graven image. But it’s not all “goyish.” We are all human and enjoy similar things, like sharing out lights and bringing warmth to the darkest time of the year.
I thought that the rabbonim say to put our Channukiot by our windows.
Is that like being goyish? With Christmas candles and trees by the windows?
I think it’s a testament to how much we can be openly Jewish in the US.
What if instead of outrage we saw it with gratitude that someone Jewish felt safe enough to blast Channukah with such a flashy promotion.December 21, 2016 9:26 am at 9:26 am #1206036iacisrmmaParticipant
What is wrong with cookies in the shape of a menorah or dreidel?December 21, 2016 1:18 pm at 1:18 pm #1206037
iacisrmma: I think those that felt it was wrong felt that way because the type of cookies is taken from x-mas, in their opinions. If that is the case, I would imagine that the fact that it is made in the shape of a menorah or dreidel wouldn’t help.
However, I’m not convinced it’s a problem. Personally, I never heard such a thing before.
Of course, the fact that I never heard of it, doesn’t necessarily mean it’s not, but the fact that the ONLY place I have heard of it (after living in this world for many years in many places) is online w/o a source does make it suspect.
Also, it is just a type of cookie and I can’t imagine it is only used for x-mas. In fact, this is the first time that I ever heard that it has anything to do with x-mas.
But if anyone has any sources for this idea, I would be open to hearing more about it. Thanks!December 21, 2016 2:44 pm at 2:44 pm #1206038golferParticipant
A New Chanukah Song
My Chanuka sugar cookie
I baked you out of dough
I popped you in the oven
As it began to snow
Dreidels iced with sugar
My grandkids cried, “So cool!”
But posters on the CR
Said I’m a great big fool!
I won’t suggest a tune (- I know most of you will figure it out) for fear of being accused of blasphemy.December 21, 2016 8:56 pm at 8:56 pm #1206039
golfer +1December 21, 2016 9:57 pm at 9:57 pm #1206040kapustaParticipant
[applause]December 21, 2016 10:46 pm at 10:46 pm #1206041
EncoreDecember 22, 2016 7:42 pm at 7:42 pm #1206042
It’s not that there’s anything wrong with sugar cookies. It’s just, why not lavender-flavored chocolate chip cookies?December 22, 2016 7:48 pm at 7:48 pm #1206043
What’s with all this lavender? Are you the one who said you put it in your coffee?December 22, 2016 7:49 pm at 7:49 pm #1206044
Never had them. Sound yummy. Can you roll out the dough and cut them into dreidels?
Not everyone likes flowers in their cookies.
Or chocolate chips.
Sugar cookies are modest. Fun in shape. And stand on the sidelines where sufganiyot and latkes take the field.December 22, 2016 8:15 pm at 8:15 pm #1206045
I didn’t say I put it in my coffee. I said it is possible to make a lavender syrup. I said that lavender syrup tastes good. I said that it is possible to add the syrup to coffee.
You don’t put the flowers into the cookies, you add flavored sugar, syrup or extract. You can’t shape chocolate chip cookies, but you can cut them after baking.December 22, 2016 8:20 pm at 8:20 pm #1206046
Well since you didn’t say it, let me ask you: Do you put lavender syrup in your coffee?December 22, 2016 8:54 pm at 8:54 pm #1206047
Cutting already baked chocolate chip cookies?
How? They break into pieces. Unless you make super gooey soft ones with kosher gelatin and cut them while still warm?December 22, 2016 10:50 pm at 10:50 pm #1206048
Bake the soft kind.December 23, 2016 12:51 pm at 12:51 pm #1206049WinnieThePoohParticipant
yes but my sugar cookie recipe comes from my Bubby, who got it from her mother…while my chocolate chip cookie recipe comes off of the Nestle chocolate chip bag.December 23, 2016 2:56 pm at 2:56 pm #1206050
“while my chocolate chip cookie recipe comes off of the Nestle chocolate chip bag”
Best recipe ever. I don’t understand why anyone would use any other recipe.December 23, 2016 6:38 pm at 6:38 pm #1206051Neville ChaimBerlinParticipant
I must agree with RY that it’s unlikely that the Chanukah cookies were developed independently of Christmas cookies.
That doesn’t necessarily make it Chukas haGoyim. The goyim don’t attach any ritualistic or superstitious significance to the cookies, they just do it for fun. It’s just an ironic way of celebrating the holiday that memorializes our resistance to assimilation.
And, again, why hasn’t anyone brought up gifts yet?December 24, 2016 10:48 pm at 10:48 pm #1206052
NCB- well, since you asked,December 25, 2016 8:37 am at 8:37 am #1206053
Ritualistic practice for Xmas cookies:
How about leaving them out for the S-man with a cup of milk.
But then would we have to ban leaving out a glass of wine on Pesach for Eliyahu?December 25, 2016 7:33 pm at 7:33 pm #1206054WinnieThePoohParticipant
No LB, but we have to ban pot bellies and white beards (I don’t have to mention red suits, since that B”H never crept into our customs).December 25, 2016 9:06 pm at 9:06 pm #1206055
Omgosh I didn’t even think about the long white beard!
When was the razor [man’s clean shaved face] invented?
Maybe every old man back in the day had a beard?
And he was clearly of a higher social status that he could afford enough to plump up. That was back then. Today it’s often the opposite.December 26, 2016 6:28 pm at 6:28 pm #1206056
Wouldn’t it be sweet if families sent out family-photo Chanukah cards every year?December 27, 2016 12:07 am at 12:07 am #1206057
We probably shouldn’t have lectured our friend about it being goyish to wear an ugly sweater on Chanukah.December 27, 2016 2:26 am at 2:26 am #1206058☢️ 🚭 ☣️ Rand0m3x 🧠🕴️🎲Participant
What about a Chanukah sweater? Or Chanukah lights on a house?
By the way:
Xmas is a common abbreviation of the word Christmas. It is sometimes pronounced /??ksm?s/, but Xmas, and variants such as Xtemass, originated as handwriting abbreviations for the typical pronunciation /?kr?sm?s/. The “X” comes from the Greek letter Chi, which is the first letter of the Greek word ???????, which in English is “Christ.” The “-mas” part is from the Latin-derived Old English word for Mass. -WikipediaDecember 27, 2016 9:59 am at 9:59 am #1206059
Randomex- I knew that, but it still feels better to write it that way since to me the letter “x” is meaningless. So if I have to write it one way or another, I’d rather write it that way until someone comes up with something better.December 27, 2016 2:15 pm at 2:15 pm #1206060
Rabbi Dovid Orlofsky tells a story where he went into a Sukkah in EY and he sees a picture of “the S-man” on the wall. He asks a kid who it is, so the kid responds “I don’t know. Some rebbe”December 28, 2016 10:36 pm at 10:36 pm #1206061
Aha!!! Outlawing donuts.
Here it is, here it is:
“As head of a powerful ultra-Orthodox political party, the bearded and black-coated Yaakov Litzman considers himself a guardian of Jewish traditions. But in his other hat, he’s a health-conscious official on a mission to stamp out junk food and child obesity.
Litzman’s two roles have come into conflict with his high-profile call to avoid the lure of the high-calorie “sufgania” doughnut.
“I call on the public to avoid eating sufganiyot, which are rich in fats,” Litzman told a conference last week promoting healthy eating. “You can find alternatives for everything nowadays and there is no need for us to fatten our children.”December 28, 2016 11:14 pm at 11:14 pm #1206062
LB – and here, I was sure it was just a joke!
uh, I wouldn’t say his “two roles have come into conflict”. Last I checked, the Shulchan Aruch doesn’t mention anything about a chiyuv of eating sufganiyot on Chanuka!December 29, 2016 1:57 am at 1:57 am #1206063
Lol. Imagine if eating sufganiyot was halacha.
I wonder if eating foods with oil, esp olive oil, is mentioned in the SA?December 29, 2016 4:28 am at 4:28 am #1206064
Oh… Sufganiyot aren’t all about the oil. We can thank Israel for making them a Chanukah tradition.
From its Germanic origins, the dessert quickly conquered most of Europe. It became krapfen to the Austrians, the famous Berliners to the Germans and paczki to the Polish. Substituting schmaltz or goose fat for the decidedly un-Kosher lard in their fryers, the Jewish peoples of these regions also enjoyed the dessert, particularly Polish Jews, who called them ponchiks and began eating them regularly on Hanukkah. When these groups migrated to Israel in the early twentieth century, fleeing the harsh anti-Semitism of Europe, they brought their delicious jelly-filled doughnuts with them, where they mingled with the North African fried-dough tradition.
The latke, the classic fried potato pancake that was already associated with Hanukkah celebrations, is a dish that can easily be made at home. A perfectly filled and fried sufganiyot is much more difficult. Even some of the most talented at-home cooks will agree that the treat tastes better when left up to the professionals. Which is exactly what the Histadrut wanted: a Hanukkah treat that involved professionals. As many important Jewish holidays are concentrated in autumn, the end of that season often brought a lull in work in Jewish quarters. By pushing the sufganiyot as a symbol of the Festival of Lights, as opposed to the DIY-friendly latke, the Histradut could encourage the creation of more jobs for Jewish workers.
Sufganiyot can now be found throughout the United States as well during Hanukkah, produced by Jewish and non-Jewish bakeries alike. After all, as people all over the world have been discovering for centuries, no one can say no to a truly delicious jelly doughnut.” (TIME)
—-“Emelyn Rude is a food historian and the author of Tastes Like Chicken, available in August of 2016.” (TIME)
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.