He who lives in glass houses shouldn’t throw roger stone

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  • #1831204

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Gadolhadorah commented on the roger stone sentence

    “Forget about this clown Stone. What does it say about our judicial system when the President can pressure the DOJ to change their sentencing memo for one of his BFFs. I suspect we will be seeing a bunch of pardons the day AFTER election day in November.”

    Remember when Obama used the irs against the tea party?

    #1831317

    Joseph
    Participant

    The President of the United States is the head of the Department of Justice as well as of every other departments, agency and branch of the executive government of the United States. As such, the President has the full constitutional and legal right to decide any and all decisions made by any part of the Justice Department or any other executive department.

    As far as pardons, yes, I hope he gives a full, complete and immediate pardon to all victims of the Mueller witch hunt, the morning after election day, whether he wins or loses the election.

    #1831389

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    “The President of the United States is the head of the Department of Justice as well as of every other departments, agency and branch of the executive government of the United States.”

    Sorry joe there’s something called a balance of power

    #1831518

    jackk
    Participant

    Obama did not use the IRS . Another silly fox news conspiracy theory.
    As John Kelly said today people who rely on fox news “are not informed citizens.”

    #1831517

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Joseph, I am surprised at you. I thought you were an educated person. Justice is blind. What happened to equal justice under the law for everyone? How is he different from a dictator?

    #1831516

    akuperma
    Participant

    The DOJ should not get involved with politics. The whole investigation of Trump was resolved in Trump’s favor. Trump probably should pardon him and be done with it. The anti-Trumpers will scream, but that wouldn’t change anyone’s votes.

    #1831581

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Jackk,

    I think I trust fox before you any day

    #1831600

    klugeryid
    Participant

    What’s the difference between trump pressuring the Dept of justice to go easy on his friend or Obama siccing the irs on someone?
    Simple
    In trumps case he is using his pull to help his friend who is in trouble for helping him. Not really a surprising move. Something all those now upset about here should be rooting for. It’s called הכרת הטוב. From the guy who has no morals or מידות.
    It threatens nobody, and really is nobodies business.
    Whereas using the Irs to harass your political enemies, is something that threatens the very bedrock of free society.
    Even someone who is perfectly clean can still undergo years of hell and fortunes of money to clear themselves, with no recourse to Seamus that lost time and money. It’s a real threat.
    It’s almost as if the president can Willi nilli lock someone up for years for disagreeing with him personally or politically.

    Additionally it’s the stupidest thing to get upset at trump for.
    He is fully in his rights to wait until they sentence stone to 1000 years in prison plus the death penalty. Harsh enough? With no meddling from trump?
    And the next day pardon stone and he walks out a free man.
    So what’s the issue if beforehand he let’s it be known that he thinks this is too harsh of a punishment?
    Fabricated indignation from trump haters

    #1831608

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    klugeryid, change your name. איזהו חכם הרואה את הנולד a smart person looks in the past. We don’t want a dictator who controls the Justice Dept. Next, any person can be investigated by the president, if he does’t like him.

    #1831631

    Milhouse
    Participant

    Joseph is 100% correct that “The President of the United States is the head of the Department of Justice as well as of every other departments, agency and branch of the executive government of the United States.”

    Coffee addict, there is no “balance of power” within the executive branch. How could there be, since there is no “executive branch” outside the president. The US constitution says that the president *is* the executive; everyone who works in that branch works for him and exercises only those powers he has delegated to them. So how can there be a balance of power?

    Eliezer, who is not a “reb”, the president *does* control the Justice Department, whether you like it or not. That’s how the constitution has it. And using that power to give someone a small measure of justice is not being a dictator.

    #1831652

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Aside from the absence of any findings by the Treasury IG that Obama had personally directed the IRS to withhold or delay requests for not-for-profit tax status by Tea Party and other Consdervative Groups. A more in-depth investigation by AG Sessions after Trump was elected did conclude that Lois lerner and another IRS official had failed to monitor and discipline employees under their supervision who DID engage in such behavior and agreed to a $3.5 million settlement with the affected groups. Again, the DOJ investigation did not link the White House to the actions by the IRS employees.
    If you want to believe that the President can/should intervene with the criminal justice system on behalf of his friends, that’s you option but leave it for the Foxnhunts like Hannity et. al. to use the “Obama did it too” argument.

    #1831651

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Milhouse you are like trump and deserve each other by being an עזות פנים.

    #1831657

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    I’m sure there are dedicated members of the Federalist Society including AG Barr who will argue for an expansive theory of the unitary executive under Article II that encompasses the President having the authority to over-rule both his own DOJ and the judiciary on any matter, whether federal or state. Indeed, in pending litigation the President’s lawyer said that he is immune from prosecution while in office even if he engaged in the infamous Fifth Avenue Shooting. Under that scenario, we would have to fall back on the Nancy/Nasler/Schiff impeachment show with Uncle Mitch in the Senate refusing to call any witnesses from New York City. They also argued he is immune from even being investigated while in office, whether it was for a federal or state law matte.

    #1831656

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant
    #1831663

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    I don’t believe that anyone’s middle name should be invoked as an indicator of that person’s values, whether it be a U.S. President or a CR poster (with the same middle name as a disgraced former U.S. president).

    #1831679

    klugeryid
    Participant

    Harav

    klugeryid, change your name. איזהו חכם הרואה את הנולד a smart person looks in the past. We don’t want a dictator who controls the Justice Dept. Next, any person can be investigated by the president, if he does’t like him.

    What are you talking about?
    It means who sees the future.
    At least translate correctly before criticizing.
    He does not control it any more than any president before or after him. He has not seized power. He UTILIZED his power. And we see which way he enjoys utilizing it. To help his friends. Big issue there.
    Maybe say, next boy of his cronies can do any crime and get away with it. At least then the issue you bring up would make sense. Although in my post I already answered that he already has that power. It’s called PARDON

    #1831730

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    klugeryid, I specially translated like that as a chacham is greater than a navi. The chacham learns from the past to apply to future. Currentlly, there are no neviim.

    #1831832

    klugeryid
    Participant

    Harav.
    You totally lost me
    חזל say one thing
    You mistranslated it on purpose because you know better? Is that what you are saying?
    Nice. I’ll keep חזל ‘ס version if you don’t mind.
    I can’t be positive but I just have this feeling that they were a drop smarter than even you.
    Hope I’m not being to חוצפא to say that

    #1832571

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    klugeryid, see what the Chasam Sofer says:

    חתם סופר מסכת נדרים דף ל עמוד ב
    איזהו חכם הרואה את הנולד ולא אמר הרואה את שעתיד להיות, והיינו משום מי שמפחד מהעתידות ביותר עליו נאמר אמר עצל ארי בחוץ ברחובות ארצח, ואמרו מן הזהירות שלא תרבה להזהר, ואמנם איש חכם שוקל העתידות במה שכבר עבר וממה שכבר נעשה בעולם כיוצא בזה ומביא ראיה מהעבר על העתיד האפשרי והיינו שאחז”ל הרואה את הנולד שכולל העבר שכבר נולד עם העתיד להולד כבשמעתין וק”ל:

    #1832574

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    The Chasam Sofer is a Targum in Koheles:

    עלי תמר סוטה פרק ח
    החכם עיניו בראשו החכם עד שהוא בראשו של דבר הוא יודע מה בסופו. וכן אמרו בתמיד ל”ב איזהו חכם הרואה את הנולד. ובתרגום קהלת, חכימא מסתכל ברישא מה דעתיד למיעבד בסיפא.

    #1832596

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    klugeryid, it also says איזהו חכם הלומד מכל אדם a smart person learns from others. He does not need to learn from his own experiences but can learn from others experiences. You can argue that the Targum is not the Chasam Sofer but Rashi. He is able to see the consequences. Certainly the Chasam Sofer says what I said. It is hard to see the consequences, if someone did not experienced it and like this we resolve a contradiction on who is a chacham.

    #1832756

    klugeryid
    Participant

    Reb you.win.
    Lots of words. Looks smart and sharp. I have no idea what your point is

    #1832798

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    klugeryid, the Chasam Sofer says above that it does not say who sees the future but who sees the birth indicating past and future. We should learn from past experiences for the future.

    #1832809

    klugeryid
    Participant

    Totally true
    And therefore??

    #1832914

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    So the Trumkopf just commuted the sentence of the illustrious former Illinois Governor Rob Blagojevich (who auctioned off an appointment to fill the Obama Senate Seat for campaign contributions) and pardoned Mike Milliken (the junk bond fraudster from the old Drexel firm) and Bernie Keric (former NYC police commissioner and Giuliani’s BFF who was convicted of tax fraud and perjury). Still pending are requests from Bernie Madoff and the estate of Jeffrey Epstein. I guess Roger is sleeping comfortably.

    #1832950

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    And therefore?

    #1832951

    klugeryid
    Participant

    As I’ve been saying all along the man can pardon who he wants when he wants without any limits so stop getting bent out of shape when he helps his friends to get off

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