Hi I’m back 3.0

Totally not the place sorry. my keyboard….

To none2.0

Your post is interesting. Can you give a concrete example? Many Shluchim know how to use the Chabad brand to get rich. Rabbi Yechiel Eckstein was making about 150 million a year from Christians. He gave most of the money to Chabad. One Rabbi in my neighborhood was getting a million a year. I don’t know if he’s still getting it now that Eckstein is dead. Eckstein was taking money from one set of Christians and giving it to another.

“coffee, thanks, but I am still reaching for the navi. There are a lot of features of tlamid chacham mentioned in the gemora that I view as a criteria“

Aaq,

I never said you were a TALMID chachacham, i said you are a CHACHAM which anyone can be (חכמה בגוים תאמין) the saying חכם עינו בראשו doesn’t only apply to Torah

To the group

I normally try no to repeat a point in a second post but I’ll make an exception this time. As I stated above the mantra that “this is the last generation of Golus and the first generation of Geulah” is central to Chabad theology. As noted 35 years have passed since the liar made his prediction and it didn’t come true and so that ends any further Novi BS. But not so fast, now Sechel proposes that the Rebbe didn’t mean the standard generation. Right maybe he was talking about a generation in the time of Adam Harishon which was approximately 200 years. This reminds me of a story. I had a friend growing up who was a genius. He became a physicist. Many years ago I called him up to see if he’s observant(he’s a professor at NYU). So I asked him if he believed in G-d. He answered, “I depends what you mean by God My god is big bang.” He was serious and he’s a very nice person. Sechel and the other Lubavich liars make up anything to cover up Schneerson’s Kefirah

coffee> I never said you were a TALMID chachacham, i said you are a CHACHAM which anyone can be (חכמה בגוים תאמין) the saying חכם עינו בראשו doesn’t only apply to Torah

your definition of the chacham seems OK, but your definition of the “talmid” seems off. T’Ch is a lower madregah and many true T’Chim call themselves mostly T’Ch as if they did not finish learning.

I don’t recall the source, but I think there is an explicit comparison – T’Ch can answer shailohs on the masechet he is currently learning, while Ch’ can answer anywhere in the Torah.

Maybe you are confused because, as you quote, chacham often refers to general knowledge and sciences, while t’Ch often is referred with ability to answer shailohs and also proper behavior (not walking on your own at night, dressing up properly). Maybe T’Ch starts with memorizing one mashechet at a time (see above), while Chacham has thinking capabilities that include as well general knowledge.

Anyway, I modestly claimed only naviyut, so none of these categories apply to me. And the reason I did it – to divert this ugly stream of mutual accusations … BTW, after I examined myself before I modestly concluded that I am not a T’Ch, I found I have something in common with Alter Rebbe!
As he said – he was choosing between going to Vilna Gaon and Maggid of Mezirich: I knew something about learning torah but I knew NOTHING about davening. So, I am 50% there like alter Rebbe! Of course, after Alter Rebbe learned something about davening, he tried to see Gaon – but he did not have a prayer …

To Sechel

1. Name a non-Chabad Rabbi who signed the Psak that the Rebbe was a Novi. 2. An engineer who contradicts a Rishon may not be a Kofer but he’s definitely a psychotic. Thank you for confirming what Rav Shach said about Schneerson.. 3. Just a question, ,”Why do you care if I call the Rebbe what he is he a Kofer? I wouldn’t care if you called Rav Moshe a name. The reason you can’t take it is because you know I’m right. BTW what’s your point about Rambam? Is it that he predicted that Nevuah will return 800 years ago? As I said his prediction didn’t come true. Why is that a problem? Rabbi Akiva was our greatest Tanna and he was wrong about Bar Kochba. Great people make mistakes because they’re human. Only two people were never wrong and they’re both dead Jewish gods and both Kofrim. One of them was Jesus. Can you guess the other one?

To non-political

As I said above I like your approach but let me share something about Sechel’s state of “mind.” About 2 years ago he challenged me as follows because I said I’m a Lower East Sider, “In 1962 the Rebbe announced that he was god. Rav Moshe was a Gadol at the time and he didn’t protest so this means he accepted the Rebbe as his god.” Sechel’s an absolute idolater.and so no logical arguments make any impression on him.

More about nevuah: see דרך מצותיך from the צמח צדק:
ואנחנו נבאר זה ע”פ הפנים העמוקים שלימדו מיסוד הבעש”ט והה”מ נ”ע אשר אליו נגלו האחרים כידוע
Seems like the baal shem tov and the magid had nevuah

@ Sechel

Signed Psak Dins are a-dime-a-dozen today.

Also, what sugya? My questions where:

1) To your knowledge, did the last Lubavicher Rebbe declare that he was speaking as a Prophet in the name of Hashem?

2) Do you believe that the last Lubavicher Rebbe was a Prophet (in the full Halachic sense of the word)?

These are simple yes or no questions

Regarding the whole Chabbad is Kfira / A”Z thing.

There is a case that has been made that the Gedolim of the previous generation where not aware of certain statements made by the last Lubavicher Rebbe and had they been aware they would have certainly considered Chabbad Kfira / A”Z. The thing is that, as of today, all the Rebbeim are aware of the controversial statements. Still, every major Kashrus organization relies on Chabbad mashgichim (even Moshichist ones). Even Rav Aaron Feldman, who holds not to rely on them, is clear it is not because we have to be Choshed them as being Ovdei A”Z.

That being said, believing in the tooth fairy isn’t Kfira / A”Z either. Now if someone insists of believing in the tooth fairy that is their business, and nobody who values there time should try to argue with them. On the other hand, if someone (or many someones) are engaged in a mass media campaign to pass off belief in the tooth fairy as normative Jewish belief and leaving teeth under ones pillow as normative Jewish practice this should rightly be fought against.

You can search Google פסק דין שהרבי הוא נביא. One example is Rabbi Yotzchok Hershkowitz – klosenberg dayan in boro park. Very known and respected.

@qwerty how about check artscroll gemara Sanhedrin 111a on rava which brings the maharal and the yaavatz that say what rava is referring to is that the people who won’t be redeemed are the people who passed away in previous generations, and will come back by techiyas hamasim.
Tell rabbi fishelis he’s an amazing haaretz (or you’re just leing that he told you such nonsense)

To the group

Looks like Sechel is correct. There is a Psak Din with numerous signatories so I’ll assume the Rabbi he mentioned is there. Here’s the problem. The year is תשנה 0 which is thirty years ago. The Psak declared that the Rebbe is not only a Novi but that he’s also Moshiach. But wait there’s more. The Psak declared that the Rebbe is alive. So Sechel is now contradicting himself because he said that no Lubavicher believes the Rebbe has already become Moshiach. Checkmate.

Qwerty, if you need a punching bag, so rage-post me (like you did for a few days 700 comments ago…), not the Lubavitcher Rebbe. I am definitely less of an Ehrlicher Yid than he was… But better for everyone to just shut up and move on with something more meaningful and productive, especially ערב תשעה באב.

To Yaakov Yosef A

You’re such a nice guy. I wrote my weekly Dvar Torah this week on the subject of rebuking other Jews. Thousands of people read me including some very prominent Rabbis. So let me share the salient points. 1. Don’t give Mussar to people who won’t listen to you, and I don’t have any interest in what a nasty jerk like you has to say. 2. Second don’t give Mussar unless you like the person you’re trying to reach. I’m sure you hate my guts as much as I hate you. 3. Don’t give Mussar unless you’ve made changes in yourself. Clearly you’re way to arrogant to ever work on yourself. If you want more of this keep writing. I’ve got plenty more in my arsenal. As for your point that I and the other Chabad critics aren’t accomplishing anything. Well for one thing I drove you out of the thread. But seriously all we want to accomplish is to expose the truth about Chabad and it’s mission accomplished. Sechel is wobbling around but the more that idiot writes the more he demonstrates that Chabad is an alien religion. Checkmate dude.

“He says “there’s not a Jew in the world who deserves punishment” that does not mean there is no שכר עונש”

So if a person gets “punished” he’s telling Hashem that the person doesn’t deserve it? He knows better than Hashem?

@ Sechel

“I just watched Manis Friedman’s video and qwerty (Rav aharon Feldman) completely distorted it.”

Rav Ahron Feldman is an ish emes. He doesn’t distort things. That’s some chutzpa for you to speak that way about one of the Gedolei Yisroel.

“He says “there’s not a Jew in the world who deserves punishment” that does not mean there is no שכר עונש”

Really? Oh, you mean that there is schar and onesh but there is no Jew today who commits any willful transgressions. Every transgression by every individual is a ones or shogeg? Thank you for clearing that up. But, it’s Rav Aaron Feldman who is guilty of distortion??

“I even wonder who has more faith: the heretic who cannot accept the existence of G‑d after the Holocaust, or the believer who attributes such horrors to G‑d’s appetite for punishment.”

This is what is known as a fools choice. How about option “C” None of the above

“the “retribution for sins” approach is an unbearable affront to the holy Jewish nation and their G‑d.”

You may want to re-read the Asereh Dibros.

sechel83 – As they say here חבל על הזמן. You aren’t going to convince Mr. Qwerty of anything. Just leave him alone to stew in his own juices and this idiotic thread will die out ממילא. What is the point of debating someone so obsessed with things that have no relevance to his own life? No one is asking him to be a Lubavitcher. If he wants to go through life thinking that Reuven is an Apikoros and Shimon is a Kofer (and he himself is a fine Ehrlicher Yid…), so let him live that way. Answering him back just triggers his venom glands and results in כל שכן דפקר טפי, so better to do אל תענה כסיל כאיולתו.

To non-political

You’re addressing Sechel as if he’s a human being. Maybe the Rebbe is god. He took away his followers ability to exercise their free will just as Hashem did to Paroah.That BS he “wrote” earlier this week about being a heretic because of the Holocaust was part of Manis Friedman’s speech. Mams is now openly challenging Hashem. He said that he’s not afraid of hell In his speech he called Hashem a monster for creating sin and then punishing man if we do them. When I was a kid there was an ad, “You don’t have to be Jewish to love Levy’s,(rye bread) Today the ad would run, “You don’t have to be an insane Kofer to be CHabad, sorry yes you do” And the same applies to dolts like Yaakov Yosef A who support the movement.