History of the Shas Party
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- This topic has 173 replies, 16 voices, and was last updated 6 months, 1 week ago by AviraDeArah.
November 19, 2022 9:01 pm at 9:01 pm #2140438
Avira, I had to search wide to make sure I am not selecting authors that you will dismiss. So, here is an artole from Lakewood Bayis havaad on abortion, they call TzE – perhaps the most lenient major recent halachic authority, and they quote in thsi order – Ben Isha Chai, TzE, Rav Moshe, R Bleich,November 19, 2022 9:01 pm at 9:01 pm #2140439
Shas is a Lithuanianized party pretending to serve Sefardim.November 19, 2022 11:30 pm at 11:30 pm #2140464
Aaq, I can’t find that articleNovember 19, 2022 11:30 pm at 11:30 pm #2140465
Yo…. we’ve already refuted that baseless statement.November 20, 2022 12:02 am at 12:02 am #2140476☕️coffee addictParticipant
“Believe it or not, it’s not so simple to get R’ Bender on the phone, even for former talmidim.“
You can’t ask any of your former rebbeim? Rabbi Altusky?November 20, 2022 12:41 am at 12:41 am #2140482
Aaq, found it – it’s not “the bais havaad” but rather a single author, rabbi yitzchak grossman. In the same article, he quotes the OUs position, and that of….aharon Lichtenstein. So we see which perspective he’s coming from.
R. Grossman’s writings appear in modern orthodox forums, like tradition, and “scholarly” maskilish places like the seforim blog and lehrhaus, where he wrote about protesting civil rights issues and quotes hertzl henkin’s twisted books – he also writes chidushim in BMG’s journals; he’s from an OOT community, and seems to have one foot in yeshivos and another in the MO world.
Any other examples?November 20, 2022 12:41 am at 12:41 am #2140483
To be clearer, i have no idea about r. Grossmans personal hashkofos or level of learning – could be he’s on those platforms to provide a daas torah that is missing (to say the least), and that he’s actually a talmid chacham and totally ehrlich – but his audience is not the yeshiva world, so that article may not be a fair representation of how he actually thinks.
If it’s to be taken on face value, it’s not an article representing the yeshivos, as it quotes the OU and aharon Lichtenstein, neither of which matter in the yeshiva world.November 20, 2022 12:43 am at 12:43 am #2140484ujmParticipant
Coffee Addict: DaMoshe’s afraid to hear the answer they’ll give him. So he instead pretends they are very difficult to reach people, who are too busy for his 3 minute phone call, so he’ll put words in their mouth instead.November 20, 2022 9:39 am at 9:39 am #2140559
Avira, I quoted a document with bais havaad logo, apologize I didn’t verify the author. If you can’t find it, you will have to trust me on thatNovember 20, 2022 10:51 am at 10:51 am #2140590ujmParticipant
This bais havaad is simply a financial-issues specialty Beis Din. This author has no particular specialty in medical issues.November 20, 2022 11:45 am at 11:45 am #2140667
Oh, I see that article is the Dayan Grossman, you are simply questioning him because he is welcome both at Lakewood and in other places – and he quotes places you do not approve. In essence you are saying that you only recognize a Talmid Chacham if he is not quoting anyone “modern” and he is not accepted anywhere like that also. This is sad … One would think that if you see someone acceptable to Bais Vaad quoting someone you don’t think is koshder as a reason to question your assertion of what kosher is.
Ujm, you are right. I am not sure why a financial vaad deals with these issues. The only reason I quoted this article is to show that Tzitz Eliezer is quoted in the list of other “major poskim” according to sources acceptable to the most insular members of our community. I would though trust a dayan
in choshen mishpat to know who “major poskim” in medicine are.November 20, 2022 12:19 pm at 12:19 pm #2140681
aaq, you’re missing my poiny and deflecting to the “but whats wrong with MO” track.
I said that in serious conversations about halacha, poskim do not include the TE together with Rav Moshe or other gedolei olam.
You found an article online from a yeshiva-world entity, which puts them together.
I answered that that particular article was at the very least not aimed at the yeshiva world, and was not a halachik treatise, but rather a blog post from someone who may or may not be representative of the yeshiva world in general.
You then went on the “whats wrong with…” issue – please stay on topic.November 20, 2022 1:38 pm at 1:38 pm #2140744DaMosheParticipant
I actually did ask one someone from Darchei. His response was “The Tzitz Eliezer was definitely a major posek, but I’m not going near this question!”November 20, 2022 1:54 pm at 1:54 pm #2140762
Was this “someone” a cheder rebbe? someone who, just like you, read stuff online quoting the TE and assuming that he allows marriages?
Or did you ask “what do you think of someone relying on the TE to marry a man,” without telling him that the TE never addressed marriage?
Not trying to accuse, I just want to know who you asked(not a name, a title) and what exactly was asked.November 20, 2022 1:54 pm at 1:54 pm #2140765
And if this rebbe, who may or not have been misled, says that he’s not touching the issue – why do you feel it’s ok to publicly say that these people have who to rely on?November 20, 2022 2:43 pm at 2:43 pm #2140776
this is an article posted by a Lakewood bays din in their newsletter. “not aimed to yeshiva world” because they quote people you do not approve!? you again defien “yeshiva world” by “those who you approve of”. Not just puts them together but use appellation “major posek” inter alia, as in “among major poskim”, so it is not even remotely controversial.November 20, 2022 3:15 pm at 3:15 pm #2140783
Aaq, go and talk to Lakewood rabbonim, and see if any care what Aharon Lichtenstein had to say. They don’t. It has nothing to do with who i approve of.November 20, 2022 4:23 pm at 4:23 pm #2140799
Avira, and your explanation that a Lakewood bays din newsletter quotes that is ” his audience is not the yeshiva world, so that article may not be a fair representation of how he actually thinks.” ?!November 20, 2022 5:20 pm at 5:20 pm #2140821
It’s clear that whatever his intention was, it’s not representative of serious discussion among yeshiva world poskim, therefore the fact that he quotes the TE with rav moshe means just as much as him quoting aharon Lichtenstein with rav Moshe – absolutely nothing.November 20, 2022 5:52 pm at 5:52 pm #2140834
Again. Who decides who is and who isn’t in this fictional “Yeshiva World”?November 20, 2022 5:56 pm at 5:56 pm #2140843
So, a dayan calls TzE a “major posek” and Avira – “not a serious discussion”.November 20, 2022 6:30 pm at 6:30 pm #2140847
Aaq, have a halachik discussion with a dayan, like rav chaim kohn, and bring up an opinion of aharon Lichtenstein, hertzl henkin, and the consensus of the OU, and see what their reaction is. Watch their attention wander and ignore the name being mentioned. They’re not significant. They’re just not. So if this dayan quotes them, he’s either writing for a specific audience, in which case the grouping of rav Moshe with the TE is inconsequential, or he’s just not part of the Yeshiva world himself.November 21, 2022 8:50 am at 8:50 am #2140924
Aveirah you’re not taking like a T”C. A T”C looks at all sides, sees the maalah of the other side, even if ultimately he doesn’t agree. This has been the way for millennia. You come off as very arrogant. I really can’t respect someone who is so involved with the Coffee Room as T”C. Yes, I’m on it too, but I don’t claim to be a T’C. Please answer the question though: what trauma did you experience when you transitioned from MO to “Chareidi”? Btw “Chareidim” in EY wouldn’t sanction your involvement in the CR.November 21, 2022 12:15 pm at 12:15 pm #2140999
When did I ever say I was a talmid chacham? I just relay what they say, for the most part.
I didn’t experience any trauma; I just saw the truth and accepted it
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