How do airlines ban customers?

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    How does an airline ban a specific person, given they don’t require an ID at the time of booking the flight, and many people have common names. Even when boarding the passenger can use a different form of ID then previously used.

    anonymous Jew

    Most airlines require a photo ID ( usually a driver’s license ) and it has to match name on ticket. An upgraded form of driver’s license ( or non driver ID) called Real ID will be required to board any domestic flight as of October 1, 2021

    Sam Klein

    Ever heard of being banned and removed from your flight from your seat on the plane without any names or announcement needed?


    People who cannot behave on airlines are a threat to the life and safety of all people on the plane, with or without a pandemic. I hope the airlines keep banning uncooperative passengers. If you have special requirements while in flight, e.g., kosher food or need to stand or face east to daven, make appropriate inquiries about the rules before you book the flight.


    “Most airlines require a photo ID”. Incorrect for domestic flights! The TSA requires a photo ID. A step further, using CLEAR checkpoints, ID is not required- as biometrics are gathered by fingerprint and eyes. Attaining the boarding pass can be completed on the computer or the airline’s app, with no ID required. When boarding the flight, the only thing scanned is the boarding pass.


    1. When you book a ticket you have to enter your name and date of birth on to the reservation, most transactions are paid by credit card and that has your address, in my case I add TSA pre check number that has my address to use the pre check lines.
    2. Your reservation had to match your ID or they will deny boarding.


    @TGIShabbos, I use to belong to clear, and drop it because it was not worth the money, you to to show ID to join and if your on a banned list it would not work

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕

    Ever heard of being banned and removed from your flight from your seat on the plane without any names or announcement needed?

    Has that ever happened to you?


    @huju, as a frequent flyer on most carriers I can tell you that the nastiness of the flight crew in the past year is off the charts, they don’t even try to hide the contempt they have for the passengers and are downright rude and if you think its me thinking that way because I am a frum yid, guess what this came up in a conversation with business associate who is a lily white non Jew from Ohio.

    anonymous Jew

    Here’s what I find fascinating. Liberals and leftists fight against any measure that requires a photo ID for registration and voting. They base it on the belief that it somehow discriminates against people of color and poor people. Yet there is no objection when it comes to air travel as the truth is anybody can easily obtain, and in fact already has, as an ID


    No one answered the OP’s question.


    Common Saychel: I’ve done most of my flying for the past year on United and Alaska Air….my experience has been exactly the opposite of yours. While the flight attendants have been very stressed out, especially as load factors have increased in the past several months, they’ve generally shown considerable patience and tolerance with passengers who at times sere acting like complete jerks. Given their constant close exposure to infection and low priority for vaccination (aka they are not “essential” even though the plane couldn’t take off w/o them) I have no issue with their insisting on rigid compliance with the mask requirements.


    I find it interesting that many of the articles in YWN recently complaining about banning, anti-frum behavior, general anti-semitism have been about the low cost, low service carriers such as Frontier and Spirit.


    @CT Lawyer, the employees of the ultra low cost airlines tend to be paid at a much lower pay scale then the legacy carrier hence a lower caliber employee, [ you get what you pay for], that being said I have flown Frontier Pre and during Covid with no issues other then the usual snarling about mask use.
    I refuse to fly Spirit where the CEO wrote in a email about someone who asked for a refund after his flight was canceled ““We owe him nothing as far as I’m concerned,” Mr. Baldanza wrote “Let him tell the world how bad we are. He’s never flown us before anyway and will be back when we save him a penny.”
    @Godal I flew Frontier, Jetblue, United and American, common denominator flight crew was rude for the most part from boarding of the plane to deplaning regardless is the plane was full or empty, most of them seem to be on a power trip.
    PS my son just flew back from this zman in Israel and told me that the flight crew was roaming the aisles looking for reasons to complain


    Bottom line: The airlines have no effective way of banning specific persons. They can send the person a certified letter saying he’s no longer welcome. But they don’t have enough information to stop him from flying with them again if he buys a new ticket using a different home address and a different credit card number or method of payment.


    common: you are pretty vague accusing airlines of being rude “on a power trip” “roaming the isles looking for reasons to complain”. Are you saying – they want you to wear the mask and you are not complying? Maybe they just want to come home safely?


    @AAQ, I am fully compliant in airports and aircraft so it was not directed to me, you want details? my son told me a fight attendant was roaming the plane with a pen and paper and taking notes of everyone whos mask slipped, when you get on the plane they welcome you with a “if you don’t wear your mask we will throw you off the plane. sorry that’s called a power trip, when a fully compliant mask wearer from Ohio who is not Jewish complains about the same thing you know its not a frum issue.
    PS have you flow in the past 12 months?


    Ctlawyer: low cost, low service carriers such as Frontier and Spirit.

    I think most of those who fly large families for a little vacation find using British Airways for that a tad expensive. We should thank Herb Kelleher for starting SouthWest and developing a new business model and Press. Carter and Reagan for deregulation, and for fracking industry keeping fuel cheap for allowing masses of Jews to fly to Israel and afford Florida vacations. Just average prices are 2x lower now than in in 1978 + Spirit.

    A free tip: you get even lower prices on Spirit if you buy in the airport. Spirit defines part of the ticket as “online sales tax”. With that, they do not pay other taxes on top of this tax. If you pay at the airport, you do not pay it, of course. So, if you have bli ayn hara a large family, hop in the car, go two hours before Spirit has a flight (when they asre open but no lines), have one person wait in the car. If you ask nicely, they can even assign your seats for free.


    Common, I am not flying. I am enjoying video conferencing and I drive within 8 hours from me. A lot to see…

    As you just said: you are complaint and nobody bothered you. You should be thankful that they keep others compliant and keep you safe. There is no reason people in an airplane can’t put on a K95 that does not slip.

    Not all idiots are Jewish, I hope you did not imply that. We talk hear about Jews as we expect us to have better midos and common saychel.


    @AAQ, try flying that way I did and then you can give your opinion if they are on power trip after seeing first hand, unless like your opinion about saying kaddish, you dont want to hear a differing opinion


    “We should thank Herb Kelleher for starting SouthWest and developing a new business model ”

    That did matter for a long time but more recently their success had to do with the price of jet fuel (and making correct predictions on its trajectory).


    @CharlieHall, actually we have Sir Freddy Laker, Frank Lorenzo, Kenny Friedkin of PSA, David Neeleman in addition to Herb who paved the way for the lost cost airlines.
    Most of them used the playbook of Don Burr of People Express and Nickle and Dime you for everything.
    At least in on those airlines it was fun to fly.
    PS I paid my way thru college working for People Express in EWR



    Thanks, but no thanks, I would not be flying Spirit.
    When I (alone) fly domestically, it’s First or Business (if no first is offered) and I am flying on business on the client’s tab.

    I used to fly AirTran Business class between White Plains and Florida every week, but when Southwest bought them, goodbye Business class, then goodbye White Plains. I was an AirTran stockholder so I made money on the sale.
    At this stage of my life I am not going to be flying any of the Greyhounds of the air.

    If I fly with MrsCTL, or more of the family we use my NetJets membership (due to her medical issues, we don’t fly commercial).

    I haven’t flown internationally in 13 months due to the Pandemic.


    Mr. CtLawyer. Not calling you to fly Spirit. You could still say thanks for the rest of the Jewish people. Also, without Spirit, you would not get a chance to brag about your fancy travels! I proudly flew Frontier for $40 on business, saving the client’s money, not that they cared or noticed. The alternative was to stay till the morning, bill for a nice hotel. I decided it would be a good musar for myself to do what I would have done if I were paying on my own. I was the only one in a suit on that red eye, everyone else weared T-shirts.

    One of the reasons was probably because I had an un-fortune to attend a learned class about business halakha. The speaker discuss a lot of proper humrot in dealing with the opposite sex and drinks in non-kosher places, and then some kulot in dinei mamonot, such as – can you bill 2 clients for the same trip when you visiting them both, or can you bill your company for fedexed kosher food, if it was delayed and hotel reimbursed you. He did not allow much after some pilpul. After than a local Rosh Kollel interrupting with “sheker sheker tirchok”, the talk was successful. So, maybe I took Frontier to get those possibility off your mind. Highly recommend to everyone who had non-kosher business thoughts.


    common, thanks for the invite. I’ll walk. Or drive.

    Btw, if you feel pressured in business, you can try resisting and be surprised by the response. I was on a business discussion, where several subs, some pretty significant, us the smallest, were invited to fly in and integrate/test their software. All parties did not hesitate to show enthusiasm and started discussing the trip (maybe because many of them would send their subordinates). At my turn, I said that we care very much about them and their project, but do not have high desire to see them right now in person, but will do if this is really needed. Everyone laughed and the online deliveries were arranged soon thereafter (for everyone).


    maybe I misunderstood you. You said – you were fully complaint (using your common saychel) and nobody bothered you. So, that seems liker a proof that they would not bother complaint people. Others were not and they were told so. I don’t see why you would not support this. “Partially complaint” is a subset of “non-complaint”. What makes you feel that rules are suggestions, and people expect to comply after a couple of reminders? Note that you are making an occasional trip, the airline personnel is in the air a lot at the mercy of non-compliant passengers. Their risk is pretty high. You should be telling other passengers to comply in order to protect the people who enable you flying.

    A statistical aside for your decision-making: having a non-compliant person is a higher risk than simply a difference between him having a mask on or off. Presumably, the person is non-compliant in other places also, so he is a much higher risk. He might have just came from a 1000-people wedding in corona-central. So, if you have a minyan and a guy like that shows up, lowering his nose under the mask does not lower the risk. Maybe chachamim used a similar approach defining Haverim in regards to Tumah? Haver is someone who is careful at all times not only when you interact with him, and thus you can rely on him.


    @AAQ, ein domeh smeah lereah, I experienced it first hand , they ARE on a power trip, you admitted you have not been in a airport in 13 months so your opinion does not matter


    My flying time on business is working time. Coach class on a budget airline does not have the space and quiet conducive to my work. If I stay over in Florida it is in my own home, the client does not get a bill for food or lodging.
    This is NOT bragging, as you surmise, but the reality of a law practice taking place in 4 states. Back in the good old days circa 1970, there were tables in First Class and you could sit two facing two and conduct business, or really spread out your work. No laptop computers then.
    As I wind down my activity in my practice with generation 2 assuming more of the duties, I fly less and less, which suits me fine. Covid precluded our spending last or this winter in Florida as we had all the extended family in the compound since last March. I”H next winter we’ll be able to spend in Florida where the weather will benefit Mrs. CTL’s health.


    >> My flying time on business is working time. Coach class on a budget airline does not have the space and quiet conducive to my work.

    yes, I do the same. Just in that case, it would involve staying overnight at the client’s expense and missing driving kids to school in the morning.

    I once felt very guilty going on a redeye, while my wife was dealing with a newborn. I had to ask myself, do I really dare to enjoy several hours of sleep, and that made me feel even worse? Hashem took care of my guilt feeling. A Chinese father or grandfather was flying with a small baby and signing a very annoying “niggun” the whole flight again and again. I presume this was Eliahu, as I never saw anything like that again in my life.


    @CTLawyer, You still have options out of HPN to Florida, Jet blue has service there and that is still my prefered option, the only issue I have with HPN is the lack of long term parking


    Thanks for sharing information that I already know.
    JetBlue service to Florida from White Plains has existed for years.
    It is of no use to me as it is all coach class service, although my grandchildren have used it when they would fly to visit us in Florida during the winter breaks.

    Years ago, when JetBlue started this service, they did not have use of the airbridges from gate to plane. Passengers had to walk outdoors in winter weather and up a long switchback ramp while carrying their oversized cabin baggage and young children. Not a pleasant experience…said my eldest and his wife who had to negotiate that with their two toddlers in a snowstorm. That said, I bought their shares at the height of the pandemic last spring (as I did with most American airlines, and industrials, as I had faith in a recovery) and they have more than doubled in value.
    Thus, I am happy when their revenues rise, I just don’t fly them.


    @CT lawyer, Great minds think alike, because I too invested in March 2020 in the travel sector [mostly airlines] [including some like spirt that I never fly on] my best move was buying Avis instead of Hertz.
    In the early days of Jetblue they had a culture of customer service and I enjoyed flying them, the former CEO of Jetblue is opening a new airline with a focus of customer service


    Fiat/ STLA
    Tata Motors
    American Air
    Jet Blue
    Home Depot..although I detest the founder’s politics
    Kraft/Heinz because people are cooking at home, even goyim not eating out much
    to name a few

    Mrs. CTL chose all the medical and biotech stocks, such as Moderna, Aztra zeneca. JNJ. Quest

    B”H, we’re in good shape, my business prospered during the Pandemic, so we are taking profits and making up the tuition/fundraising shortfall in one of our grandchildren’s yeshivas.

    I type this while taking a break from preparing my 2020 tax return, I yearn for a simple flat tax, these returns that can run in excess of a hundred pages are ridiculous


    common, reya is indeed better. That is why I am asking for your precious testimony – what did you see. You just said “power trip”, but did not specify what exactly you saw, except when you personally had a mask one, you had no problem. I don’t see there is a lot of gray area, maybe except these:

    1) nose under mask, but used to support the mask so that it increases non-filtered air access
    2) occasional to longer eating
    3) masks made out of materials that would not be considered tzanua if worn on the leg


    @AAQ, after you have flown I will answer your question


    Common, All I was asking you to describe what you saw. Just curious. Are you saying that the experience is such that it is impossible to describe? Would I also need to eat hazer to have an opinion whether it is kosher?


    AAQ, I cant give an opinion on how pork or shellfish tastes because I never eat it, same here I flew pre covid and during covid and I can tell you they are on power trips

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