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A few weeks ago, I volunteered to photograph a five-hour event for an organization. I showed up on-time with my camera and gear and began shooting.
About three hours into the event, I needed to take a break. Now, when I volunteered, we made no mention or agreement about breaks. Nonetheless, after three straight hours of standing, squatting and kneeling (sometimes to get a good picture you have to get down to a lower level), my legs and joints were complaining — loudly. I needed to take a short break. So, at what I figured was a non-critical juncture in the event, I went outside, sat down, and relaxed for about fifteen minutes. Afterward, I went back and finished shooting the event.
My “employer” (I put the term in quotes because it was a volunteer job) expected a five hour job from me. That was what I agreed to give. In the end, I only gave about four hours and 45 minutes. My “employer” didn’t notice my absence and I didn’t miss any important shots due to my absence.
My question is this — since I promised the organization five hours of work, and only delivered 4.75 hours, do I owe them anything, and, if so, what? I can’t honestly say that my taking a break constitutes theft*, but I do feel like I’ve wronged my “employer.” Attempts to justify it to myself as “you really needed the break in order to be able to finish the event” and “you deserved a break anyway” and “heck, it’s a volunteer job, you can take a break if you want” all sound self-serving and unacceptable to me.
The problem is this — even if I wanted to pay them back for the missing time, I can’t. For example, you might suggest “well, give them an extra fifteen minutes the next time.” The problem is that (a) they might never need/want me again and (b) if next year’s event ran 5:15 instead of 5:00, I’d do it for free anyway, so I’m not really giving them an extra 15 minutes that I otherwise would not have.
I also can’t attach a monetary value to the fifteen minutes and donate that. It was a volunteer job — there is no monetary value. I can’t even estimate a value for fifteen minutes of my services because I am not a professional — I’ve never earned a penny for taking a picture. So I can’t make an honest estimation that my photography is worth $X per hour and give a quarter of that.
So, what do I do? How do I repay them for the unauthorized break?
The Wolf
* I don’t believe that failure to fulfill a pledge is theft in the strictest sense. It’s certainly unethical and wrong, but it’s not theft IMHO because, IMHO, theft requires that you take something that someone already had — which is not the case here.
did you make any mention of the water you would drink at the event?
what about the use of their tables to place your equipment on?
did you stand on the floor? although minor, i imagine your walking might have weakened the structure of the building to a small degree?
do you know exactly how much it contributed?
perhaps you should hire an engineer to find out?
did you speak to anyone there not 100% necessary to your job? did that distract them temporarily from paying attention to the event?
i think your Halachic problems are just beginning.
Do you honestly believe that your “Employer” expected you to take pictures every single minute of those 5 hours?
Would you feel guilty had you needed the restrooms?
Wow- I’m astounded by your honesty and by your determination to do the right thing.
As for your dilemma- Why dont you ask your “employer” what you should do? Tell him you needed a break and does he want you to do anything to make it up? If he’s mochel it, then you are left with a clear conscience and if not, maybe he can outline how you can repay it.
Wolf- I can’t help you with this, but just something for NEXT time. In the future, please arrange with them approximate timing- (approx 5 hrs, instead of 5 hrs). Will save us all some trouble.
Why don’t you go over to the “employer” and tell him if you’re 15 min break was ok?
Any job has considerations for a “breather” and a “bathroom” break. It is normal for a photographer who is also human to also have to eat, breathe, drink, sit or use the bathroom. Some even have to take a cigarette break. If you were a “paid” employee you would certainly be entitled to such a break, kal v’chomer a volunteer should not get anything less than a paid employee.
Wolf, I’m sorry but this is an uncharacteristically dumb post. A wolf is cunning and smart (as your posts usually reflect) are you turning into a turkey? In a volunteer relationship you do not owe anything to the “employer”. There is no fiduciary relationship. There is nothing to “repay” as you put it. There is no halachic issue here. Next you’ll be asking to tithe salt. Seriously, there are real issues available for theoretical halchic discourse. This is not one of them.
Ctrl Alt Del (Wishes he could Ctrl Alt or Del some posts)
Hey, that would be a nice tag.
C A D
i agree with your general assesment of this topic but for different reasons
i dont know about the Halacha, but when someone volunteers to do a job he has a certain responsibility to make sure he does it properly. after all the job is important to the one that asked for it to be done, and had he known the volunteer would do a subpar job he might have arranged for a different person to do the work.
so, at least in a moral sense, you do “owe” something to the “employer”
Wolf,
Why don’t you buy a box of ice cream from the store where you advised a fellow customer on ingredients that may have caused the customer to decide not to buy, and give it to the “employer” whose event you photographed.
Voila! Two birds with one stone:-)
On a serious note, what responses are you actually expecting to your query?
“so, at least in a moral sense, you do “owe” something to the “employer””
Not your first born…. Or your sanity.
I’m willing to wager that should the “Employer” find out that this is how you feel (should these feelings be real) he would in turn feel terrible.
Wolfish~ I personally don’t think you should be beating yourself up over this… after all– you’re only human! oy! or are you? 😉 .. if you hadn’t taken that very much needed break, then you probably would not have been able to complete your endeavor… & THEN we would have been able to really discuss & debate your obligation.
tizku l’mitzvahs!
Mod80:
but when someone volunteers to do a job he has a certain responsibility to make sure he does it properly. after all the job is important to the one that asked for it to be done, and had he known the volunteer would do a subpar job he might have arranged for a different person to do the work.
I was thinking the exact same thing. If a person volunteers to do a job for someone else when that person would likely have paid for the job had the volunteer offer not been made, very real damage could be done if the job is not done up to par.
I certainly don’t think that a 15 minute break can be considered subpar, however. Most places of employment allow two 15-minute breaks in an 8 hour work day, and I’m sure that if Wolf’s organization contracted with a professional photographer, a break period would have been in the contract. I think it’s as understood as using the floor, restrooms, and drinking water at your place of employment. After all, neither the photographing company nor the hiring organization want photographers with knee and back trouble. This is not Mitzrayim, and B”H we are not employed by paroh.
CAD- When one pledges to bring a Korban in the Bais Hamikdash, Even if it was out of the goodness of his heart he is now required to bring it and nothing less. When you pledge to do somthing you must do it.
i think it is reasonable that your “employer” expected you to take a break now and then…i’m surprised you only took 15 min….no worries in my opinion
Sacrilege,
I’m willing to wager that should the “Employer” find out that this is how you feel (should these feelings be real) he would in turn feel terrible.
I agree. If I were the “employer” in that situation and were approached and offered compensation for a 15 minute break, I would be upset and concerned that I had done something to mistakenly indicate that the photographer’s work was not up to par, or that he did not try hard enough, etc.
Wolf, did your “employer” comment on the job you did?
I’m a little unclear on one fact here, although I’m not sure it matters.
It sounded like you volunteered to photograph an event and that that event was supposed to last five hours. If so, you’re agreement was not time-based, but was a promise to do a reasonable job of photographing the event. In the same way your “employer” would have been out of line in suggesting you’d failed to live up to your agreement by using the wrong shutter speed (unless you’d done something unreasonable in choosing one), it was also up to you to determine how best to take pictures of the event. You did this, even if you were not shooting for all five hours.
Even if your agreement was to shoot for five hours, it sounds like you stopped shooting when the event was over. So long as that’s the case, I can’t imagine that your agreement could reasonably be interpreted to say that you needed to spend 15 minutes shooting caterers packing up, just so that you hit your five hours.
Think of it this way, if the event had just run 15 minutes short, would you still have owed them?
If you take a short break from learning to freshen up to be able to learn better, the 15 minutes is credited to you as if you learnt. Same when you sleep at night. You get credit for the sleep since you did so to learn better the next day.
I’d also throw out to Ctl Alt, that I think Wolf generally knows the answer here, but is interested in how people arrive at it. It is interesting that everyone here thought Wolf didn’t need to repay the money, but we had different reasons for it.
I needed to take a short break.
As you present the issue, the break was needed. It was therefore part of the job. So you gave the full 5 hours. (Even had you not used the term “needed”, a fifteen minute break would certainly be a reasonable expectation.)
Tizku L’mitzvos.
perhaps send in this question to businesshalacha.com and see what they say. It might even make their popular newsletter “Business Weekly”.
I think the correct halacha it to ask a few photographres what standard business practice is. If standard practice allows for such a break than you actions were certainly warratned from a halachic point of view as all agreements unless specifcially mentioned otherwise are assumed to be subject to standard pracrtice for that field. if a hired photograohere would be expected to not take such a break then the break was in all likley unwarratned.
i would posit that such a break is likely expeceted and assumed by employers of photographers.
Kol Hahavood for looking to do the right thing in monetarty issues.
I went to a chasunah in “ir hakodesh” (Brooklyn) recently. I was there until the end of bentching. There were 2 photographers (one for the ladies’ side and one for the men’s side). The photographer was sitting at one of the ladies’ tables that had been cleared off already and taking pictures. Every few minutes he would doze off for a few minutes, then take 1 or 2 pictures, then doze off again and to top it all off the machatonim were paying OVERTIME for this. Any thoughts?
my thought, phillybubby~ Brooklyn is sooo not “ir hakodesh”!! :-O
send in this question to businesshalacha.com and see what they say. It might even make their popular newsletter “Business Weekly”
I think BHI is run by the same fellow as the NASI project.
I think BHI is run by the same fellow as the NASI project.
Why do you mention that point?
I think what you should do is refuse to give the pictures, and renege on the entire deal.
Since the deal is unenforceable, they will have no recourse. And if there is no deal, then you will not owe them anything for taking a break.
ANYBODY would expect an employee who is actually GETTING paid, to take a break SOMETIME during a five-hour job. Kal V’chomer when you are doing the guy a favor and a chessed, he would have no less of an expectation of the same, and in fact, were he doing the proper thing, he would have ENSURED that you had taken a break.
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