How does one know?

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    I have this problem, I’m very scared of this whole “losing your basheirt” thing, and therefore when going out, I never say no to the girl, I pray that she should say no to me (for that reason, and because I know it can be quite painful to get rejected, so I’d rather not be the cause of such pain, especially to a girl). Where can I draw the line? I mean I’m getting a lot of offers, but I tell my Rebbi (who’s also my shadchan) that I’d rather not date them because of such and such but if Rebbi thinks I should, I will. If I do go out and I see potential problems, I still don’t say no for the aforementioned reasons. How does one know when he can say no and not “risk losing your basheirt”? I’m tired of this!


    This is endemic of your general outlook on life, which is in turn typified by your screenname.

    Perfectionism is a big problem in our community.

    The way it is manifesting here is that you think there is one perfect person for you and if you marry her it will be bliss and otherwise it will be misery. That is not true. But I don’t think I will be able to convince you of that, and even if I do it will not help in the other parts of your life. Dr. Ben Sorotzkin talks about this in some of his audio and text available free on his website.


    Spend some time praying for guidance, talk to your confidants, and think it over for an appropriate amount of time.

    Then follow your heart and make the decision that seems right to you, when you’re ready.

    Don’t be paralyzed with indecision, but conversely, don’t let people pressure you into making decisions you’re not sure about.

    Do not worry about losing your bashert — this is like saying “my life will be ruined!” Heaven forbid a person should think such a distressing thought. Trust in Hashem that he will guide you to make the right decisions.


    It’s good to have a friend / relative / rebbi / wise person / confidant to discuss these questions with and help you decide if your concern(s) are legitimate.

    You also need to have confidence in your own judgement. If you’re always not able to decide yes or no about the person you’re dating, you’re defeating the purpose of dating. That doesn’t mean people don’t have uncertainties – almost all of us do – but to be unsure about everyone is a problem.

    A good start might be discussing this with your rebbi / shadchan.



    The concept of “losing your basheirt” does not exist

    Do not say yes to any girl you do not like.

    Why ruin her life ?


    Ok, thank you. I didn’t really speak to my Rebbi in those cases, when he asked me how it went, I would always answer “it went fine, I wouldn’t mind another date, but wouldn’t mind if she said no”. I really hope what gilgul said is true though, because that’s what really bothers me about the whole dating process. I know that I have my “bas ploni lploni” and I’m not getting depressed or anything, I don’t mind waiting. I just don’t like saying no! From now on though, I’ll try to speak out any red flags to my Rebbi. Thanks guys! Shabbat Shalom! and Gut Shabbos!


    You shouldn’t speak to a rebbi. You should speak to a professional.


    Popa- your diagnosis may be accurate but please admit you never would have thought of it if not for his screen name.

    Gilgul- You absolutely CAN lose your Bashert. The Steipler told many older singles that they turned down their Zivug. But as long as you make correct decisions based on common sense and ask Daas Torah if you have a question, you’ll be fine.

    Rabbi Perfect- I must take issue with what you wrote that you don’t want to cause pain especially to a girl. Unless you meant that a girl is more likely to be hurt, it sounds to me like the secular notion of ‘ladies first’ being nicer to women, which is contrary to Torah values. See Horiyos Daf 11

    As for your issue I also feel bad for my rejects. But is it better to go out 8 times and then say no? Is it better to break an engagement and or a marriage Ch’V because the Shidduch was ill-conceived? Obviously the girl would rather you break it off earlier. To make up for the inadvertant pain you caused, you can Daven that they meet their true Zivug soon


    To popa_bar_abba

    although i liked your first comment and its true that the name “rabbi perfect” shows something, but don’t forget that “popa_bar_abba” is just as wierd, it just shows different things as you mention allown in your name (Incorrigible; semi-retarded; eccentric; perhaps a man; somewhere between mean and average; sometimes only a bit over the top; arbitrarily cynical.)

    But I still liked the thought A1


    Popa- A Rebbi is a professional as well, and the only part of my screen name that is false is my title as Rabbi (just for you :-] lol)

    Sholom- Yes I did in fact mean that girls are more likely to get hurt. I mean since they deal with things more on an emotional level and not in a logical sense, it’ll probably be harder to get over it. (btw I do daven for them to get their zivug, I remember all their names and try to daven for them whenever I remember) But you’re right, it would be much worse for me to break it off later on when there’s more of a connection, and after I might have led them on, as opposed to earlier on when it didn’t progress too much.


    “It’s good to have a friend / relative / rebbi / wise person / confidant to discuss these questions with and help you decide if your concern(s) are legitimate.”

    – Good advice. I spoke to a friend who helped convince me to go on a second date with the woman who became my wife, b’H. In hindsight, with your Q I realize I had siyata d’shmaya there, to help avoid me losing my bashert.

    @Popa – What do you make of the bat kol saying ‘ben ploni lbat ploni’? Also, whatever your points may be, I think you might say them in a nicer way.

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