September 19, 2010 3:11 am at 3:11 am #592385
By us it went for $1500.September 19, 2010 3:33 am at 3:33 am #697831BEST IMAParticipant
$10,000 by usSeptember 19, 2010 3:35 am at 3:35 am #697832Ben TorahParticipant
You can get it on the cheap at a small minyan.September 19, 2010 3:48 am at 3:48 am #697833
$10,000? Wow thats chashuv.September 19, 2010 3:52 am at 3:52 am #697834Ben TorahParticipant
How does a higher price make it more chashuv? (If so, the guy in your shul should of doubled the price even if there was no competition at that price level.)September 19, 2010 3:54 am at 3:54 am #697835BEST IMAParticipant
It went for $150 Grand in a shul in brooklyn last year dont how much it went for this year thoughSeptember 19, 2010 5:52 am at 5:52 am #697836
NOT ONE PENNY. We don’t charge for kibudim in my shul.September 19, 2010 6:28 am at 6:28 am #6978372qwertyParticipant
I hear that in Kiev, Ukraine it usually goes for around 250k US dollars. (dont know about this year)September 19, 2010 8:16 am at 8:16 am #697838fabieMember
Didn’t sell that by us. The highest bidders were around 500 shekels for aliyas.September 19, 2010 10:45 am at 10:45 am #697839SRPsychMember
To my chagrin – free. The shul coulda used the money :O(September 19, 2010 11:23 am at 11:23 am #697840emoticon613Member
fabie – i’m with you. i actually didn’t notice i was busy saying tehillim and trying not to fall asleep/faint, but since we do things in shekel, it definitely didn’t sell for 10,000 dollars!
i’d guess around five hundred shekel though – my bas bayis mommy assumed her husband got a certain aliyah when she heard him bid 400. (he hadn’t but i guess that shows you how much they usually go for…)September 19, 2010 11:49 am at 11:49 am #697841
Looks like “how much did kibbudim go for” has become the adult equivilant to ‘when did you finish your sedorim”.
By us all kibbudim are given out by the Rav and the “commitee” as a way to say yasher koach to all those who help out the minyan during the year.
As always, it was given to the gabbai who after the Rav is the main cog in the minyan.September 19, 2010 2:52 pm at 2:52 pm #697842artchillParticipant
Baruch Hashem im my shul they don’t have auctions on Yom Tov.
Playing on the emotions of people that they feel like they have to WIN , or else their whole year is down the tubes is WRONG. I remember once davening in a shul with auctions and I LOST. The animosity that it caused was unbelievable. I made up my mind, NEVER AGAIN. It was this reason and another that helped me decide to invest elsewhere!September 19, 2010 5:04 pm at 5:04 pm #697843minyan galMember
I am firmly of the opinion that shul honors should never have a cash value. Many people cannot afford mishugas like this but are the lifeblood of their shuls and their minyans. Many of the wealthier members are as well, but many only come a few times a year and because they have the cash can buy their aliyah. Those that are there day in and day out, regardless of their finances are the ones that truly deserve the koved.September 19, 2010 6:00 pm at 6:00 pm #697844yaff80Participant
I always feel sickened at this time of the year, how the “services” have become so comercialised.
People think they must make a statement by giving money they have/havent got.
I have been to a shul where members put pressure on their peers to raise their donation to the shul. Last year they were pressurising someone who didnt have the money they were making him promise! This is pure “chamas” – a type of gezel. Is it worth a shul staying in existence through funds that are solicited in such a way? I wonder!September 19, 2010 6:50 pm at 6:50 pm #697845baron fritzParticipant
by us holding the 1st sefer torah for kol nidrei went for 600 times chaiSeptember 19, 2010 7:00 pm at 7:00 pm #697846arcParticipant
by us they sell maftir yona and psicha for neilah, it’s a way to raise a little much needed money for the shul.
it dosent make my shul better than yours but not selling doesnt make yours better than mine!September 19, 2010 7:11 pm at 7:11 pm #697847
artchill, minyan gal,yaff80 et al
Hold it guys!!! Selling ????? in shul is age old and has been the topic of dicussion by ????? ??????? some examples from the top of my head 1) See ???? ??? ???? ??”? ?”? ?”? ? Re buying Mitzvis in shul ftrom Maaaser money 2)See Shulchan Aruch Orach Chaim 306 6 in Rema re Shabbos (also R’ Akiva Eiger ad locum Bshem Shaloh re backing out from a bid)
3)The chasam Sofer discusses whether Kahal can sell the first aliya on ??? ?????? even when there is a kohein and whether they can or should ask the Kohem’s mechila.(I will leave it to the resident scholrs such as Popa bar Aba to supply referrences.)
43) Yje Arizal advised his talmid to buy the ???? ?? ????? ??”? ?? ?? ???? “????? ????? see ????? ?????? ???? ?”?September 19, 2010 7:14 pm at 7:14 pm #697848
corrction Excuse My horiible typing and spelling
??? ?????? NOT ??? ??????
4) The Arizal….September 19, 2010 8:49 pm at 8:49 pm #697849chofetzchaimMember
We didn’t auction anything off in the minyan I davened at but they made optional mi shebairachs after aliyos where people gave a “matanah l’yeshiva bli neder”.
The person who would have gotten psicha for Neila was still davening his shmona esrei so they gave it to me.September 19, 2010 8:52 pm at 8:52 pm #697850HelpfulMember
CC: do you daven in your yeshiva or a shteeble or what type of minyan?September 19, 2010 9:18 pm at 9:18 pm #697851
Come to think of it:
>>>>The person who would have gotten psicha for Neila was still davening his shmona esrei<<<< had a pretty potent segula woking for him maybe even better than pesichaSeptember 19, 2010 9:57 pm at 9:57 pm #697852
What exactly is the segula for psicha neila, maftir yona (aren’t you lihalacha allowed to give maftir to a katan?) and some of the other things people outbid each other for? I’ve davened in a yeshiva (the yeshiva has changed over the years) minyan almost my whole life and I’ve almost never experienced selling aliyos and other kibudim. Even now that I daven in an “alumni” minyan that tries to mimic the way things are done in the yeshiva we still don’t sell aliyos.September 19, 2010 10:06 pm at 10:06 pm #697853
For several years I bought myself Maftir Yonah as a birthday present. I decided what I wanted to give the Shul over the year and stayed within that budget.
One year one “charachter” decided to jack up the price on me. I simply outbid him by small increments until he decided that enough was enough. I told the gabai I will pay the last increase and let him have it. It was the last time he tried a stunt like this. And it was the last time I bid for Maftir YonahSeptember 19, 2010 10:18 pm at 10:18 pm #697854SJSinNYCMember
I don’t know the price, but as a board member of our shul, we use the money pledged from RH/YK seats and kibbudim to pay a large portion of our mortgage.September 19, 2010 10:19 pm at 10:19 pm #697855
I think it is just plain wrong to sell kibudim. If our shul did that, then my husband would never have gotten neilah p’sicha a couple of years ago. The shul gives out kibudim to people whom they feel give of themselves in mesiras nefesh and avodas mishkan ha-me’at. My husband is an anav who normally refuses to receive accolades in his personal life, and he was very touched when he was asked to do the p’sicha for neilah that year. Merit is more important than money. Otherwise only people who are financially well-off would ever be thus honored.September 19, 2010 10:34 pm at 10:34 pm #697856HadaLXTPMember
I think this would be a good idea.
Try “selling” the Aliyos for Dafim of Gemara?September 19, 2010 11:13 pm at 11:13 pm #697857
Try “selling” the Aliyos for Dafim of Gemara?
It is done in several yeshivos!
oomis1105 wrote “I think it is just plain wrong to sell ibudim.”
In the next compendium of the opinions of the POSKIM on the subject your opinion will caary much weight. see my previous postSeptember 19, 2010 11:47 pm at 11:47 pm #697858flatbusherParticipant
I hope the people who spend these large sums of money do so only to support the shul. I can’t imagine there is any practical zchus attached to any of these kibudim, and if there are, it certainly is hidden.September 19, 2010 11:49 pm at 11:49 pm #697859
Anyone care to answer what the signifigance of maftir yona and psicha neilah is? Why is it any more a kibbud than maftir by shachris? Why is psicha neilah any more a kibbus than psicha for avinu malkeinu?September 19, 2010 11:59 pm at 11:59 pm #697860
I agree with what Oomis wrote, but probably not for the same reason that she is thinking. One shouldnt think they are buying a kibbud. You can’t buy kavod. If that’s your intention, how sad. Same with the shul. You can’t sell kavod. You can “buy” a mitzvah. The shul is offering people the opportunity to do a mitzvah with their money. Oomis, one fact in life that may or may not be fair is that some people have more money than others.September 20, 2010 12:55 am at 12:55 am #697861Pashuteh YidMember
Look, the price of kibudim can’t matter much. If one is rich, then the money is nothing to him. If one is poor, he can’t afford it anyway, so obviously the RBSH considers it as if he bought it, as long as he had it in his heart to do so.
As far as auctioning things for blatt gemara, I am totally opposed, as there is never any way to verify that someone kept his neder. Even a bechina won’t help, because maybe he knew those dapim beforehand.September 20, 2010 1:20 am at 1:20 am #697862
As for the segula part the best place would be Sefforim like
The significance of Maftir Yonah my guess oven fresh. How many Maftirs are one of the required aliyos other than Taaniyos.
Signiicance of Pesichas Neila ??? ??? ??? ??? ????? ???
Sounds good? Anybody out there can offer something better?
>>> never any way to verify<<<<< And $$ at time of sale ???
Or do you work on a COD bais?September 20, 2010 2:44 am at 2:44 am #697863ZosHaTorahParticipant
By my shul, the rich guys buy the chashuv psichas and aliyos, then give them to the deserving minyon-ers. This way, everybody gets their reward.September 20, 2010 3:21 am at 3:21 am #697864
Psach lanu shaar….so now those words are diected towards mr psicha purchaser and not the ribbono she’ll olam?
Maftir yona. So, your selling shlish, not maftir yona. It happens to come along for the ride.September 20, 2010 3:28 am at 3:28 am #697865smartcookieMember
In our shul it went for about $600.September 20, 2010 3:32 am at 3:32 am #697866
Maftir Yonah: Segula for long life and prosperity.
Psicha L’Neila: Becoming a chosson (I know an older boy who became a chosson shortly after buying PN so it may have something to do with it) as well as other things I will see what I can find.September 20, 2010 3:40 am at 3:40 am #697867
Just curious. When did “maftir yona” become THE aliya of the year?September 20, 2010 3:44 am at 3:44 am #697868amichaiParticipant
we don’t sell it. also maftir yona not.September 20, 2010 12:40 pm at 12:40 pm #697869mybatMember
Ok, this is kol nidrei, but it went for about $50,000.September 20, 2010 12:50 pm at 12:50 pm #697870
….so now those words are diected towards mr psicha purchaser …of course not but we see that actions are M’orer (simanim R”H night, things that H” told Yecheskel to do)
Maftir coming along for the ride .. GOOD!!!September 20, 2010 1:19 pm at 1:19 pm #697871
A Rabbi told me, most people think Neilah is a Segulah for Parnassah but it looks like Parnassah is a Segulah for Pesicha L’Neilah!September 20, 2010 1:51 pm at 1:51 pm #697872
APY, I also thought of your point of not buying a kibud, but rather earning it (and that WAS the point of my post). As to the fairness or unfairness of the fact of life that some are rich and some are not (I, being in the latter category), that’s true. Life isn;t always fair – but it doesn’t mean that the people who sit on the boards of Yeshivahs or get honored at dinners, or are looked to like Tevye “If (he) were a rich man,” for guidance, are the ones who deserve to be thus treated, simply because they have a fatter wallet than other people. Because if that is true, that money makes you automatically more worthy of honor, then there is no logic as to why so many reshaim have it.September 20, 2010 2:19 pm at 2:19 pm #697873theprof1Participant
The comments are interesting to read. Some say shuls shouldn’t sell anything, some say that shuls should sell. The ones who say to sell kibudim all do this because it’s a prime source of revenue. In my shul the month of Tishrei brings in just about 80% of our annual budget in a good bidding year. Add membership dues and we are OK. I think that the comments not to sell have no idea of how their shul’s budget is covered. Maybe if they cut out selling and raise the dues by $500 a year, these comments would change.September 20, 2010 2:59 pm at 2:59 pm #697874telegrokMember
I’ve davened in shuls where the kibudim are auctioned.
And, I’ve davened in shuls where the kibudim are allocated by the gabbai with the unspoken understanding that a generous donation will be made following yom tov.
I’ve also davened in a shul where the recipients of major kibbudim are selected by the gabboim and the rov, and are bestowed upon those who are o’sek on behalf of the shul or community, and without expectation of major cash donations following – the kibbud is intend to (gasp) honor the recipient.
And, I’ve been gabbai at a shul where a good man was given in aliyah on yomim noraim simply because he is a good man. And he declined a separate misheberach for his family because he was could not afford to pledge a mattanah.September 20, 2010 3:05 pm at 3:05 pm #697875erm_saywhatMember
HadaLXTP – I’ve seen that done before. In a yeshiva about four years ago, they sold the kibbud ofmlighting the lag baomer bonfire for blattei gemera.September 20, 2010 3:06 pm at 3:06 pm #697876bptParticipant
Wow, 5-digit price tags? Ours went for a “measly” $520.September 20, 2010 3:12 pm at 3:12 pm #697877gavra_at_workParticipant
NOT ONE PENNY. We don’t charge for kibudim in my shul.
I believe that is a general rule for Young Israel’s, as well.
And your husband would also probably get a Kibbud based on the
“o’sek on behalf of the shul or community” criterion.September 20, 2010 3:17 pm at 3:17 pm #697878
On Rooash Hashana I subbed for the Gabbai who was at his Rebbe. The Kohain got an aliya gratis because he was the only Kohain. Whe I asked if he wants to include his children in the one Mi Sheberech he made for the Rebbe, Dayan,Baal Shachris & Kol hakahal, he declined because of????? ???????September 20, 2010 5:12 pm at 5:12 pm #697879
Whatever the revenue stream of the shul, I still think its wrong to buy and sell kibbudim. I think it is perfectly OK for shuls to offer people the ability to buy a mitzvah. I’m not disagreeing with the practice, just the semantics of what it is called. It just grates my ears when I hear someone say “we bought or sold a kibbud”. The mechaber tells us that “mefarsimei osei mitzvah”, not “lokchei kavod”.
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