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Note:Be aware of large amounts of generalization.
Ever since I was a wee lad, I have always greatly admired sphardim(specifically Iranians/Persians), and have always thought of converting to their side. Besides for the fact that they are generally more awesome than Ashkenazim, here are other reasons I want to convert to Sephardism.
1)I much prefer their style of learning.(http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/for-pulsing-flower-to-rant-about-iyun)
2)I remember when I was a kid (7-8 yrs old) being at my Sephardi friend’s house, and his father always telling my mother “(To be read in a Persian accent) We have to find for your son a nice Persian girl.” I just found this hilarious, and its not something that I have ever encountered in an Ashkenazi home, although I’ve had similar experiences at other Sephardis houses’. I absolutely love this attitude, and want to be around it.
3)Persian food is AWESOME!!
4) I would love waking up at 3AM for 40 days. Sounds good to me.
5) I want to learn how to due the weird Sephardi throat yodeling.
6)They have a better mesorah (Everybody is welcome to tell me why I’m a koifer and I’m going to Gehenom)
7)They are generally less uptight-much healthier way to live.
8) Maran Ovadia Yosef
Finally I found my match. Someone with as much time…
Ya but they’re scarier
you forgot the most important reason
eating kitneot and
wet matza on pesach
seriously go befor 3 dayanim and do a hatarat nedarim and poof you are a sfardi the dayan can be an ashkenazi
Establish a permanent residence in a Sefardi community. The big question is what community has the halachic status as a Sefardi community.
Ya they get to eat chometz on pesach
Sorry .you must always watch from afar *scary music*
In general today, most organizations that do conversions will convert you based on your lineage. Therefore if your ancestors come from Iran for example, they will convert you Sephardic, however if you are European Ancestry they will convert your Ashkenanzic
If you aren’t Jewish, you get to choose Ashkenazic or Sefardic — there are a few Western European Sefardic communities including one in New York and one in Philadelphia. But you need to be part of a Sefardic community if you want to convert Sefardic. And be warned that it is MUCH easier to be Ashkenazic here in America as all the major kashrut organizations accept Ashkenazic leniencies that aren’t accepted in normative Sefardic halachic rulings.
If you are already an Ashkenazic Jew, it is a machloket as to whether one can ever become Sefardic. I personally have a psak halachah from a Sefardic rabbi that I can — if and when I move to a Sefardic community. But I have also heard at least one prominent Rosh Yeshiva say that it is not possible, ever.
Interesting. I guess it can work both ways. Everyone who has met me was surprised to find out that I come from (pure) Sephardi ancestry. The very few times that I went to a Sephardi shul and got an Aliya, the Gabbai would call my name ploni ben ploni and the second Gabbai would even append the name HaAshkenazi!
That’s like the litvishe tshuvos who say you can change from Nusach Sefard to Ashkenaz but not the other way around.
Logician, Rav Ovadia ztzuk”l said you can change from sfaradi to ashkenazi. That is NOT the same as what you say.
The current day Nusach Sefard is not Sefardi/oriental. It was made by the early Chassidim, around the time of the Ba’al HaTanya. The Ba’al HaTanya, took the tikunim that the Arizal made in davening and applied them to Nusach Ashkenaz, hence the name nusach Ari (used by Chabad). Later it was developed further and became what is known now as Nusach sefard, which is the tikunim al pi sod/kabalah which were previously only in sefaradi davening applied to nusach ashkenaz. It has nothing to do with the people known as sefardim.
So when litvishe tshuvos who say you can change from Nusach Sefard to Ashkenaz but not the other way around, it is because the mesorah of Nusach Ashkenaz is around 1000 years older than sefard. However, sefardi is probably just as old if not older than ashkenazi, and then you would not be able to change to ashkenazi.
does anyone really believe that if an ashkenazi jew accepts all kulos and chumros of the beis yoisef or if a sefaradic jew accepts all kulos and chumors of the ramuh, he will be punished by hashem or he will be considered a choyteh is gods eyes?
something we learned only a few days ago seems on point:
,????? ???? ????? ?”?, ?????? ????? ????? ?”? ????, ????? ?”? ???? ????? ?”? ?????? ?”? ???. ?????? ?”? ??????? ?”? ???? ????? ???? (????? ?) ?????? ???? ????. ??? ?? ??”? ???????? ?????????? ?? ??”? ???????? ??????????
Being Sephardi especially persian is amazing!
So is being Ashkenazi!
Being a Jew is amazing! Ashreinu ma tov chelkeinu! Bayamim hahem b’zman hazeh Hashem appeared to us at Har Sinai and gave us the Torah, gave us Olam Habba – and Olam HaZeh!
PulsingFlower,
Except for the couple halachic issues, you can do all the others which are cultural or up to your discretion.
PulsingFlower – you seem to have an emphasis on the Parsim but just to clarify from your original post Rav Ovadia was Iraqi, not Parsi. Don’t mix up the two when you are talking to one or you might not get a happy response :p
Aside from halachic issues of whether you can change or not, take into account whether you live in Israel or Chu’l. In many places in America, and probably any Anglo country or even Anglo communities in Israel it’s easier to fit in if your Ashkenazi. In general it’s more easy to follow the sephardi derech in Israel, especially Pesach time. Also their shuls tend to be much more mosaic from what I’ve seen (guy in black hat next to guy in jeans and tiny kippah he just put on before he walked in as compared to everyone the exact same). Sephardim tend to be more informal and passionate, but can also be more hot tempered. My family is mainly a European background (with some Indian thrown in) and we’re not converts but long story short my father didn’t have a set mesorah and when I did teshuva I went sefardi. I’ve got blue eyes so people make fun of me sometimes but I’ve never looked back.
It is somewhat difficult for Sfardim to eat out- restaurant, weddings, etc.
Ashkenazim rely on the Rema who allows hashlachat kisam (i.e. adjustment of the heat/flame, or lighting the pilot light) for bishul yisrael. According to the Beit Yosef, a Jew must actually place the food on the fire.
Logician, Rav Ovadia ztzuk”l said you can change from sfaradi to ashkenazi. That is NOT the same as what you say.
Read PF’s post. I made a comparison, based on his last sentence. Don’t know what you want.
Aaron Chaim: Nusach Sefard was established by the Arizal, not by Chasidim. And it makes no sense that you can go from Sefardi to Ashkenazi but not the reverse. Everyone is supposed to keep the same minhagim as their father (and their mesora).
keep climbing: Rav Moshe’s rebbetzin was taller.
26 posts and no one remarked on the use of the word “conversion” for a shift of practice *within* Judaism. As though Sephardim and Ashkenazim practice different faiths….
Naftush, Dont we practice different faiths?
bhe, The Arizal had nothing to do with nusach sefard. He established the sefaradi nusach, also known as ???? ???? ?????. That is what people from North Africa, Syria, Persia etc. use.
The Nusach sefard that chasidim use, is essentially nusach ashkenaz, but incorporates the tikunim of the Arizal and the other mekubalim, and was established by the talmidei Baal Shem Tov, from the Baal HaTanya/Alter Rebbe (hence Nusach Ari) and onwards.
The sense it makes , is that you can go to a mesora that goes back further, because even if your father davens sefard, his great great grandfather from 300 years ago, davened Ashkenaz (because there was no sefard then).
Aaron Chaim: ???? ???? ????? predates the Arizal and it was not established by the Arizal. The nusach the Arizal established is what is effectively known today as Nusach Sefard. It is what many Chasidim use but it was established before Chasidim and not by them.
Nusach Ari is not the same as Nusach Sefard, AFAIK. Chabad chasidim use N”A, others use N”S.
BHE, The Arizal was sefaradi, and did not daven nusach Ari or nusach sfard.
I heard the Arizal was either Ashkenazi or Italian (forgot which)
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