Hungarian Yidden

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  • #1738196

    laskern
    Participant

    Chasan Sofer started to become chasidish in my time.

    #1738183

    laskern
    Participant

    My breed is a dying breed. The parents of these boys are chasidic younger than I am, so the boys are broughr up in a chasidic environment.

    #1738179

    samthenylic
    Participant

    Chasan Sofer/Mattersdorf davens Sfard because the “old” Rov Z”L, on coming to America was rov in a Sfardishe shul, but privately, he davened Ashkenaz. The yeshiva follwed suit, & davened Sfard.
    In Wien, the Rov – Rav Katz, is sefardish, in Williamsburg, the yungeleit minyanim, and any new moidad they daven Sfard. In Monsey & in BoroPark, they keep davening Ashkenaz, & say maarovis and yozros.

    #1738211

    Yabia Omer
    Participant

    Can someone explain what Maaravit And Yotzrot are?

    #1738276

    laskern
    Participant

    About yotzrot see Chavas Yair 238, Teshuva Meahava 1:1

    #1738270

    laskern
    Participant

    YO, For Yotzrot see SA O’CH 68 and for Maaravit see Tosfos Brochos 11,1 ד’ה אחת MB 489,1 אור יום הנף said at night 2nd day pesach before shmonei esrei about sefiras haomer.

    #1738352

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    “Can someone explain what Maaravit And Yotzrot are?”

    Piyuttim said in the birkas kiras shema and during the kiras hashatz. Sphardim don’t do it as they posken it’s a hefsek.

    You’ll find them in most Ashkenazi Machzors even though ~100% of Ashkenaz-davening shuls/yeshivas in America have been mevatel the minhag on account of the Gra. Some do strictly on R”H and Yom Kippur, I believe.

    #1738379

    Joseph
    Participant

    Hungarian Jewry had one of the higher survival rates during the churban of the Holocaust among European Jews since there Nazis ym”s didn’t enter Hungary until 1944.

    Rudolf Kastner threw hundreds of thousands of Hungarian Jews under the bus, in return for one train he received from his friend Adolf Eichmann ym”s, by not revealing to the public prior to the deportations to Aushwitz the Veba-Wetzler Report he received documenting the Nazi extermination.

    #1738489

    laskern
    Participant

    It is also called קרובץ – קול רנה וישועה באהלי צדיקים, see the Bach in O’CH 68

    #1738516

    Yabia Omer
    Participant

    NCB: not accurate. On YK there are things that are inserted into the chazarat hashatz. Plus not all Sephardim follow the same approach of hefsek as other Sephardim. There are many, many examples. The “Sephardic” community that most Americans (especially in NYC) are exposed to are Syrians. But there are other communities who have different Minhagim.

    And not every Sephardic community (perhaps none) follow the SA 100%. Some follow Kabbalah and some rule in certain cases like, gasp, the Rama.

    #1738515

    laskern
    Participant

    The Germans marched into Budapest March 19, 1944. Horthy officially stopped the deportation on July 8, 1944. The Arrow Cross kidnapped his son, so he was forced to resign. They took over leadership October 15, 1944.
    They wanted to liquidate the Budapest Ghetto around 70,000 Jews. Raul Wallenberg saved it and was freed January 17, 1945. Carl Lutz and Raul Wallenberg saved half the Jewish population of Budapest around 125,000 people.

    #1738504

    laskern
    Participant

    Joseph, In around 3 months (April 16, 1944 – July 8, 1944) they ym’s exterminated 437,000 Jews in Hungary.
    Read The Politics of Genocide, The Holocaust in Hungary by Randolph L. Braham, Condensed Edition

    #1738647

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    Yabia:

    Why did you ask what Yotzros were if you clearly knew the answer? Just so that you could critique whatever response you got?
    I have never heard of Sphardim saying yotzros on shabbos arba parshios, or shalash regalim. I could be wrong. Apparently, you’re the expert.

    Laskern: the rule of thumb seems to be:
    Call inserts into the birkas shema “piyutim”
    Call inserts into krias hashatz on chagim “yotzros” (misnomer because the word comes from yotzer ohr)
    Call inserts on Purim “krovetz.”

    I don’t think there’s any rationale to that pattern; it just seems to be the trend.

    #1738687

    Yabia Omer
    Participant

    I don’t know what Yotzrot are. Well now I do. Not criticizing, just saying that the comment that Sephardim don’t do them because of Hefsek isn’t accurate. There are instances when there are ostensible Hefsekim even in Sephardic liturgy.

    #1739016

    Billywee
    Participant

    We’re all Hungarian. My father didn’t go out and buy one but when he ended up with an extra chandelier he put it in the bedroom. Did look a little weird having it in a normal size bedroom. Bit still none in the bathroom.

    #1739072

    5ish
    Participant

    What is Krias Hashatz? Is there something I am missing here?

    #1739074

    Joseph
    Participant

    Are Hungarian Yidden to Ashkenazim what SY Yidden are to Sephardim? Y’know, wealthier than average and enjoys bessere zachen.

    #1739111

    laskern
    Participant

    Nev, Krias Hashatz, did you mean chazoras hashatz?

    #1739112

    yehoshuaahron
    Participant

    My 2nd great-grandparents name were R. Nathan Hershkowitz & Miriam Hoffman. He was born on May 10, 1884 In Sighetu Marmației, Maramureș, Austria-Hungary. All I know about him is he had smicha.
    What are the chances he was a Satmar Chossid? Where most yidden there Chassidim? He left Hungary to NY in 1910. Always wondered… my grandparents weren’t frum already.

    #1739213

    samthenylic
    Participant

    There was NO Satmer Chasidus in 1910. The whole chasidus started when R’ Yoel Z”L became rav in Satmar in the 1930’s. He was a grandson of the Yismach Noshe, the originator of the Siget/Satmar chasidus.
    To yehoshuaaharon – In those days, most of the Marmarosh kehillos davened Ashkenaz, and the chasidishe rebbes had their own beis medresh where they davened sfardish.
    Your grandfather MAY have been chasidish, maybe a sigeter chosid, but CERTAINLY not Satmere.

    #1739467

    laskern
    Participant

    Satmar was ashkanez led by Rav Yehhuda Gruenwald before Rav Yoel ztz’l.

    #1739914

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    Yes, I meant chazaras hashatz. Sorry about that.

    #1740237

    Joseph
    Participant

    laskern: Like traditional Oberlanders, you use the Chasidishe havara and daven Nusach Ashkenaz?

    #1741786

    laskern
    Participant

    My Rebbe the previous Matersdorfer Rav ztzv’l pronounced the Hebrew u as the Hungarian u with two dots on top like German ‘uber’ which is not available in English. The Chasidishe pronounce it as ee like she in Hebrew. Like the joke, how does a Chasidishe cow go? mee mee.

    #1742002

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    I think some chassidim do pronounce the umlaut, but it’s not very far off from an ee sound. They probably just got merged at some point by most chassidim. Most people would hear it and still call it “Chasidishe havara” I would think.

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