September 20, 2011 6:07 pm at 6:07 pm #599497
I joined the CR because I thought it would be a nice place to discuss different things with different types of frum Jews, and it has been that to some extent. But lately I’ve found myself many times getting upset and frustrated, and while it may be good to use my self control to hold back from saying or discussing something, it’s really not healthy.
I also know that my personal hashkafos are many times extremely different from the vast majority of members’ here, and that makes me feel very out of place. I would like to stay here, but I don’t know if that’s the best thing for me.September 20, 2011 7:00 pm at 7:00 pm #811929yungerman1Participant
If you are getting upset and frustrated, then maybe the CR is not healthy for you.
On the other hand, if you can express your opinion here without being attacked and are able to see the viewpoint of others, its probably a good idea to stick around.September 20, 2011 7:08 pm at 7:08 pm #811930photogenicMember
Its a hard call to make. On one hand, I hear what you are saying about certain posts causing you to feel out of place and on a different page than the OP. Is there any way to discuss how you feel about certain opinions offline? Sometimes its also hard to see how people come across by the written word…one reason I value face to face communication more than anything.
On the other hand…I, and I am sure others look foward to reading what you write. You have a unique sensitivity and maturity that comes across in what you write, that we enjoy reading.September 20, 2011 7:12 pm at 7:12 pm #811931
I haven’t followed threads where this has happened, so I’m just going by your words here.
In general, it’s really not healthy to hold back from saying or discussing something while keeping it in. Depending on the situation, this may be a passive approach (although sometimes it may be better to just ignore certain comments).
There is a skill to learn assertiveness without either aggression or passivity, and when to ignore in a healthy manner, and you may want to learn and practice it here instead of withdrawing.
I know that your presence here has contributed a lot till now, and I’m saying this after reading another refreshing comment you made on the men doing laundry thread.
HatzlachaSeptember 20, 2011 7:12 pm at 7:12 pm #811932ha ha ha haMember
well well 1st this is a fantastic place to have a HOCK!!!
but there wasn’t good ones lately…. it’s getting kinda boring!!
MP i challenge you to think up of the wackiest funniest and most enjoyable thread!!!
can’t wait to see it!!
btw your posts of very enjoyable keep them coming!!!September 20, 2011 7:29 pm at 7:29 pm #811933mommamia22Participant
Many people will miss your posts if you leave. Not all disagree with you posts, and, in fact, your open-mindedness and willingness to grow is an inspiration. People will lose out if you leave. I, too have felt like leaving in the past when some of my posts didn’t make it through. I’m glad I stayed for the support I continue to give and receive. I hope you’ll feel the same.September 20, 2011 7:32 pm at 7:32 pm #811934
I think you only feel this way because you may have taken a few on the chin (or gotten EDITED, not sure which is worse).
Stick around a bit longer; corner one of us with a slam-dunk argument, and you’ll see why we flock to this place like bees to flowers.
If you still don’t feel like you’re in tight, drink some more kool-aid. That’ll have you beleivin’ in no time!September 20, 2011 7:43 pm at 7:43 pm #811935TheGoqParticipant
MP i too am not an “average” or “regular” kind of guy here i don’t exactly fit in but its because that we are different that we should stay here and let our voices be heard so that those regular joes can see a viewpoint that isn’t the norm. You have a unique viewpoint one that needs to be heard loud and clear please dont go.September 20, 2011 7:43 pm at 7:43 pm #811936wanderingchanaParticipant
Sorry to hear that, Middlepath. You gotta do what’s best for you, whatever that is…September 20, 2011 7:56 pm at 7:56 pm #811939
MP, you know I feel the same way. I know you’ve helped many others here and I’m sure others have helped you. Maybe you fit in more than you realize. Or maybe this group just isn’t your peeps. If I may ask, what are some examples of why you feel like you don’t fit in?September 20, 2011 8:02 pm at 8:02 pm #811941tahiniMember
Middlepath I really enjoy reading your posts and must say it would be sad if you left the CR as your views and ideas are needed and valued. The appeal of the CR is the fact it is a forum for debate between different types of Jew. I too do get sometimes upset as I read things I vehemently disagree with or at times feel may even be counter to my cherished view of Yiddishkeit, I am a firm believer in loving all of Klal Yisrael, not through rose tinted glasses but from a sense of belonging, history and emunah, our history has never been easy, so many different experiences and traditions, not to mention cultural and political influences along the way. If you can face it, stand your ground it will make you stronger as you learn you can and should express yourself. Sometimes my words are moderated, it is fine and makes me determind to be careful but truthful with my language, perhaps learning to rephrase things in a diplomatic omanner. I am really new to the CR, but have been reading the interesting comments for quite a while, eventually I couldn’t resist joining in with posts myself.September 20, 2011 8:15 pm at 8:15 pm #811942observanteenMember
MiddlePath: I understand your frustration. Simple: I (and I think most or everyone on here)have also felt the way you feel. We all come from different backrounds (chassidish, litvish, yeshivish, MO, conservative etc.) and we don’t agree with everything everybody says.
Nevertheless, I think everyone would put their life on the line to help their fellow Jew. Whether MO, chassidish, yeshivish or even frei. And THAT is what’s so amazing. We are One. We have One Father, One Torah, and we as Yidden are One People.
I think you’re a great asset to the CR and people gain from you. You are a great source of chizuk to all of us. It’d be a great loss to us if you’d leave. Hope you stay.
Hatzlacha in whatever you do.September 20, 2011 8:28 pm at 8:28 pm #811943
omg I cant believe I missed this thread in all the time I was not here. Please do whats best for you but I am telling you now that you dont know how much I will miss you if you decide to leave. you know how much I love your posts i dont have to tell you.September 20, 2011 10:14 pm at 10:14 pm #811944
Thanks for all your posts. Forgive me for not responding to each of you individually, I’m a little busy right now. But I’m considering taking a little break from the CR and seeing if that helps or not.
bpt, what you said about cornering someone with an argument, that’s partly why I feel like I don’t fit in here. I’m not comfortable with the whole style of defending yourself and proving others wrong. That’s not how I grew up and I’m not used to that. I don’t like that. I grew up understanding that everyone does different things and may have different customs and that’s fine. If it works for them, great. Here in the CR, I don’t really see that too much. So I feel out of place.September 20, 2011 10:36 pm at 10:36 pm #811945happiestMember
Ok, here is my opinion on this topic. Middlepath, your posts here are so helpful to so many people. I and many others will miss you but I definitely understand how you can get frustrated and even upset by some posts here.
I too feel out of place here sometimes. I feel like maybe I am just not as “good” or as “frum” as the people on here. A lot of the time I do not post on certain topics because they just are so frustrating and infuriating to me. For a while I felt like people tried to push their “frumness” and “yeshivishness” onto the “regulars” here but then I just realized that this is their way of life, their minhagim and this is what they really and truly believe in. I may not agree with everything they say but everyone is allowed their own opinion and minhagim and rabbanim type that they ask their sheilos too.
But I REALLY REALLY understand how you might feel out of place here. For real sometimes I read some topics and just want to cry because they sound so ridiculous to me and I always ask myself, don’t Jews (especially frum Jews) have enough to worry about without nitpicking over every little thing. I still do not understand this and really still get frustrated sometimes (like I did on the Dov Hikind and Hatzala issue that was discussed or the gum chewing thread) but I just try my hardest to keep my mouth shut so others don’t hear my frustration and feelings about it.
I know I’ve rambled on and on here but if it makes you feel any better, you’re really liked here. Your posts really mean a lot to many people so you will be missed!! You obviously need to do what is good for you but we will miss you!!!September 20, 2011 11:52 pm at 11:52 pm #811946
MP- I’m not sure what you feel about the CR, but we will definitely miss you if you decide to leave.
Your posts contribute a lot here, as they are usually written with respect and a thought out mind.
I never had a problem with your Hashkafos and I’m Chassidish! We have to learn to respect each other’s differences.September 21, 2011 2:01 am at 2:01 am #811947HaLeiViParticipant
Don’t think of it that you are holding yourself back. You are merely deciding against posting and broadcasting a certain idea. There are many topics of which I had strong opinions, that I decided not to contribute, for any number of reasons. I’m not in middle of a discussion, where not answering is an answer of its own.
This is a message board. It is a place where people drop by and post a message, usually pertinent to the topic, and others read them and sometimes post another message.September 21, 2011 4:59 am at 4:59 am #811948kapustaParticipant
As was mentioned, you bring a unique voice to the CR. I don’t want to push you to do anything you don’t feel comfortable doing, but know that your opinion is appreciated here.
(Should you decide to leave, at least check in to keep us updated.)September 21, 2011 12:54 pm at 12:54 pm #811949
“…cornering someone with an argument, that’s partly why I feel like I don’t fit in here.”
MP, you are describing the “out-of-town” personality to a T.
Out-of-towners generally discuss issues respectfully without the need to take the other person down. There’s no need for condescension, insulting, aggression, cornering the other, etc.
It’s actually quite refreshing when you write, and I hope that we all can learn from your style.September 21, 2011 9:16 pm at 9:16 pm #811950
” that’s partly why I feel like I don’t fit in here”
You have a point, if you take it (or mean it) personally.
Hashing out differences, arguing fine points, its all part of the fun (and kept clean, due to the mods and members). And when its all said and done, we come away with a better idea of what the topic is all about, and a better understanding of our position. There’s a famous quote: “Once you know the why, you can address the what”
Think of it as excercising. 99% of us will never need to run a marathon, or fight off a hoard of maurading Huns.
But its nice to know you can, if you need to.September 21, 2011 10:37 pm at 10:37 pm #811951
MiddlePath, I think taking a break is a good idea (I think I’ll do the same. Lately the CR has been bringing out my negative side, and I need to step back for a bit.) But I hope you come back. I really enjoy reading your posts. It’s great to have a member here who thinks a little differently than most of the posters. I also don’t like having to defend myself here for just stating my opinion, and then feeling really bad about it. I know many people (myself included) agree with many of your views, even if they don’t say so.September 22, 2011 6:12 pm at 6:12 pm #811952I can only tryMember
Since it’s too late for me to edit a previous post (==>HERE<==) listing you as a favorite, I’m afraid you’ll just have to stick around.
(Plus, I agree with the nice stuff the other posters are saying.)September 22, 2011 6:24 pm at 6:24 pm #811953
A while back, someone suggested opening a “cocoa room” where only nice things could be posted.
Maybe we should consider implementing the idea. Then we could all sit in a circle with Morah Mod, sing Barney songs, and make smiley face stickers for one another.
Oh, and I’ll bring a back-up snack (carrot sticks, natch) in case someone forgets to bring oneSeptember 22, 2011 6:38 pm at 6:38 pm #811954
BPT- why can’t we make this into the cocoa room? Why do we need a Coffee room for nasty comments and a separate forum for pleasant ones?
We can all argue respectfully.September 22, 2011 7:09 pm at 7:09 pm #811955
Ok. I’m going to explain myself a little more right now. This may not be a very nice post. And I won’t be surprised if it gets deleted.
It really bothers me when I see people here writing freely with no respect for others. They have no problem with being sarcastic, saying very unpleasant things about other posters who may disagree with them about things, making fun of a situation that someone else is serious about. And yes, I just ignore it most of the time. But it bothers me so much that frum Jews can be doing such things. Some people here seem to completely ignore having derech eretz. That is what really upsets me. When I disagree with someone here about something, I try to do it respectfully. And I’ve disagreed with people here many times. And when I think I’ve gone over the line a little, I apologized. I’ve apologized many times here already. There are others here who should be apologizing for things they’ve said, and just don’t. Even if you KNOW you are right, if you’ve said something that can be demeaning to someone else, you should apologize. So it’s not so much about the contrast in views that I don’t feel comfortable here. It’s more about the attitude of some people that I can’t stand.
Having written this, I made sure to not mention anyone personally, but I am sorry if anyone did take offense to it. I’m simply trying to explain what I’ve said earlier.September 22, 2011 7:24 pm at 7:24 pm #811956
MP- do whatever you think is the best thing for you but I wish you lots of luck in whatever you decide and I pray for you! please dont go though i really like your posts.September 22, 2011 7:25 pm at 7:25 pm #811957
Ok, serious answer now.
I really feel that, for the most part (meaning 98% of the time) none of the steady posters (and I would consider myself one of those) are mean or insulting.
Sarcastic, wise-cracky in a funny way? Yes, that’s just the way I am.
Sarcastic, in a sneering, demeaning way, I don’t see any of us being that way. And if we sometimes come off too strong, we get “reminded” by the Mods or members to tone it down.
As far as taking a VERY strong stand on one issue or another, speaking for myself, if the topic is one that really has no place in a “yeshiva” based forum, then I see no reason to pull any punches. Since you picked the subject of music, I’ll go with that one.
Were the question, “is Mozart’s music good or bad?” that should generate a civil discussion, with each person advancing his or her opinion.
Were the question,”is Lady Gaga’s music good or bad?” that should generate a barrage of nasty, biting posts.
So we play nice, but we play hardball too. Depends what, who and when.September 22, 2011 7:27 pm at 7:27 pm #811958
Bravo, MP! You’ve said what quite a few of us have said in the past but to no avail.
Since when is onaas dvarim ok?
“Joking” at another’s expense?
One can disagree without becoming aggressive, joke without being insulting, and realize that we are all connected with the same Father.
Part of asking mechila is kabala al ha’asid, changing one’s ways in the future.
I sincerely hope we can all sign the unwritten contract barring these non-Ahavas Yisroel behaviors.
In the zchus of ahavas chinam and bain adam l’chaveiro, may Hashem bless all His children with a wonderful new year with peace on earth.September 22, 2011 10:42 pm at 10:42 pm #811959
MP- you are so, so right. I’m surprised at the posts that get past moderation here sometimes, and I’m surprised at the posts that get DELETED sometimes.
But I guess different mods, with different minds, approve different posts.September 23, 2011 1:09 am at 1:09 am #811960aries2756Participant
MP, I hear you loud and clear and would be very sad if you left. You have contributed so much to all of us and it is people like you that make many of us come back to see who is on and what was said or rather written.
I agree with you and I have learned over time when I get upset and frustrated to stop reading and instead of leaving the CR totally to just filter and not read those threads. I have to stop myself from getting involved in certain discussions and just leave them alone. i don’t open them, i don’t read them and I don’t get involved in them. And if a thread turns sour on me, sometimes I write a response and not send it. And sometimes I write a very wild and crazy response and leave it to the moderators not to post it. So basically I vent to the moderators and they are smart enough to file it in the trash.
So before you make up your mind to turn your back on us completely try to ease yourself away from those threads that people start to get someone’s goat, or to “hock”, and just join those that you feel you can help with or you can learn from.September 23, 2011 1:29 am at 1:29 am #811961
Hope I see more of you around 🙂September 23, 2011 2:44 am at 2:44 am #811962
Aries, I think you’re right. Sometimes it’s difficult to know which threads are pleasant and informative discussions and which are simply just there to get under people’s skin, but I’ll use my judgement. I definitely gain a lot here, especially from people like you, and it’s great for me. I’ll try to stick around and contribute when I can.
bpt, your’e right. I’m sure most posters here do have others’ best interests at heart. And I understand that sometimes one has to stand up strongly for what he or she believes in. And that is wonderful, so long as it doesn’t come at the expense of another poster’s feelings. And about the whole music thing, I do understand the distinction you are making. It just so happens that the music I discuss and appreciate is not pop, rap, or anything in connection with today’s pop music scene. Since I am a musician (I play the guitar and drums), I appreciate any music that incorporates those instruments, and really anything that I consider complex and skillful in terms of musical ability, which includes many genres, mostly dating back into the 70’s and 80’s.
Queen Bee, I do hope to be around, and I do agree with everything you said. I really do enjoy discussing things with you, as you are always respectful and are also a bit different from many posters here. I mean that in a good way!
smartcookie, you are definitely right.
adorable, thanks, and I do plan on staying.
To everyone else that posted here, I’m sorry I’m not personally responding to each of you, but thanks for all your posts.September 23, 2011 4:21 am at 4:21 am #811963
BTW Middlepath, I generally stay away from anonymous controversy. When I argue a point, I need to know who I’m arguing with , and what their level of intelligence is.
It can be like arguing with a 2 yr old if a Lolly or a million dollars is better. You have absolutely no idea whom you’re communicating with.
On an anonymous forum, I cannot argue my point, since I have so many different types of people here. So I stay away! I only visit the light, interesting threads. ( I don’t even read all those arguments).September 23, 2011 4:34 am at 4:34 am #811964
Thanks, MP. Right back at ya 🙂September 23, 2011 5:45 am at 5:45 am #811965kapustaParticipant
I hope I didn’t say anything that made you want to leave.
Its Elul, please tell me if I did.September 23, 2011 11:54 am at 11:54 am #811966tahiniMember
Middlepath and Queen Bee so glad you put in your views here as I a late comer do so enjoy the discussion yet at times have to stop myself from getting upset too or more often taken aback. The beauty of the CR is being able to enter into discussion or ask questions anonymously with so many different types of person and opinion. Yet at times that can cause problems too as a non Jewish forum discussing different subjects never affects me the way a Jewish forum does, I suspect we have a more emotional relationship with one another and when we disagree or be hurtful on things we really do care about it can hurt! When it comes to Israel or mutual tolerance of different types of Jew I have to back off as it can really hurt alotSeptember 23, 2011 2:23 pm at 2:23 pm #811967soliekMember
i got banned…September 23, 2011 3:20 pm at 3:20 pm #811968
smartcookie, you are one smart cookie for doing that.
kapusta, you have never said anything that made me want to leave. You are always kind and respectful.
tahini, you are right, and that is very true about Jewish forums such as this one.September 23, 2011 4:05 pm at 4:05 pm #811969
MP- glad to hear. its been a pleasure.
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