I payed $21,000 for my daughters misery!

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  • #599580

    Arig
    Participant

    Very Frustrated!

    I just got off a two hour conversation with my daughter who is in seminary in Isreal. Yes you guessed it, “but i am soooo home sick…I cant do this for another day (let alone another 9 months) why did i do this to myself…” At the start of the conversation I needed to bite my lip and hold myself back from blurting out the words “told you so”. You see i am not here to bash the whole going to E”Y thing, (even though i think its ridiculous) I just dont understand why it became something that my daughter only did cause “thats the in thing”…and we needed to give in because of the lack of good options here in NY for a good regular BY girl… I mean starting from the fortune of money it costs (not just tuition but all that spending money, tickets), to the fact that most of the girls spend 3/4 of the year just getting used to it… I just dont understand how we let this happen. So my wife and I who gave into our daughters begging and let her go, are now gonna need to spend possibly the rest of the year worrying… not a bad deal $21,000 for our daughters misery and our constant worrying…I just think its time our community gives us a amazing seminary in town, that provides all the benefits that the EY seminarys offer…cause BH we have 4 more daughters after this one and if we get a option of this sort they will IYH NOT GO TO ISREAL FOR SEMINARY!!! Do you people agree with me?!?!?! or is it just my daughter?

    #813249

    shmoel
    Member

    It’s absurd to send girls to Israel for seminary.

    #813250

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    It’s ok. She will get used to it, and will be happy she went.

    I do think you should stop thinking about the money.

    #813251

    LeiderLeider…
    Participant

    Hatzlacha!

    #813252

    Y.W. Editor
    Keymaster
    #813253

    mamashtakah
    Member

    You shouldn’t send them to Israel. Just live here instead.

    #813254

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    This is not about sons or daughters

    Not everyone at age 18 is ready to go on their own to a foreign country with possible strangers.

    I was strongly encouraged to go to Israel for a year and I refused and frankly it was the best decision I made, I was not ready to leave home yet (I went to College and lived at home, I was not ready for sleep away college either).

    Kids should go when they are mature enough to go.

    #813255

    Arig
    Participant

    Thanx for all the chizuk! But dont you think its absurd that i need to “survive” the year, after all the money… and hardship going on here…whats wrong with a good seminary in NY!!?? its about time no?

    #813256

    Arig
    Participant

    Thanx for all the chizuk! But dont you think its absurd that i need to “survive” the year, after all the money… and hardship going on here…whats wrong with a good seminary in NY!!?? its about time no?

    #813257

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    I payed $21,000 for my daughters misery!

    Lucky. You’re not paying more later, when your daughter comes home only wanting you to support a Kollel Boy.

    Consider it a wise investment.

    #813258

    AinOhdMilvado
    Participant

    Calm down.

    She’s only been there a couple of weeks.

    Kol Hatchalot kashot.

    She needs to learn that it takes time to adjust to new situations.

    Better she learn that NOW, so you don’t, chalila, get a phone call like this a week after her chasuna.

    Check back in another 6 weeks.

    #813259

    “whats wrong with a good seminary in NY!!?? its about time no?”

    are you implying there are no good seminaries in NY? BY half day, BY intensive, Machon, further out in LKWD there’s a few, baltimore has Maalot (and Binah for 2nd year) Cleveland has Yavne, and there are a few more that i can’t remember where they are. these are all seminaries in America and they all cater to different types of girls. what type of “good” are you looking for?

    (btw i went to an american seminary and i am insulted that you think there are no good seminaries here in america)

    #813261

    Arig
    Participant

    Did any of you hear about a new seminary in brooklyn opening next year… Rebbetzin Assaf and Rebbetzin Weinreb? heard its gonna be the reall deal. Got a daughter in 12th grade again, and she is not going to E”Y!

    #813262

    Arig
    Participant

    old man…I guess many people are bring there chidren up “to remain a child”, cause she claims ALOT of the seminary is feeling the same exact way!

    #813263

    TheGoq
    Participant

    Where would you take a tiyul to cooperstown? six flags? not quite the same

    #813264

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Go to Seminary in Israel is ALOT differnet than going to Seminary in say Cooperstown (Eurphimism for any sleepaway , but somewhat local school)

    If someone went to seminary in Cooperstown and felt homesick, they could come home for Shabbos, You cannot come home for shabbos in Israel.

    Sometimes its better to slowly walk into the water rather than jump

    #813265

    TheGoq
    Participant

    dad i didnt say anything about a seminary being in Cooperstown i was rather referring to trips the seminaries in Israel take to various site of holy and historical significance.

    #813266

    Arig, i feel for you and what you fell for!

    Now that she is there, you have to try to work things out and teach your daughter some real life lessons.

    Perhaps you speak to the mechanechet and help set your daughter up with a family where she will feel comfortable and the mother/father can be her mentor and hold her hand while you are not close to her.

    In Mir, the bochurim are today hooked up with such. I know, as my son is the shoulder for some bochurim. They feel close enough to discuss their doubts for whatever it is and have a place for a good home cooked meal and some real family life, not yeshiva/seminary lunchroom dynamics that sometimes does not see a mechanech/mechaneches and the kids are busy with such as bottomless texting and that starts their sliding down from Torah life!

    Hatzlochah!

    If your daughter is adamant of coming home, tell her that the condition is to get a job and pay back the $21,000!!!!

    Gut Shabbos, Good Luck and a Gut Gebencht Yuhr.

    #813267

    MiddlePath
    Participant

    The whole “Israel for a year” after high school experience works for some, and doesn’t work for others. But I do think it is probably common for a girl to be homesick after her first month or so in Israel when she’s lived her whole life until then in one place. Same applies to boys. I personally never went to yeshiva in Israel, as there was a good bais medrash/college option for me here in America. And I’m sure there are wonderful seminaries here in America as well, as some posters have brought up already. Then again, some people really get a spiritual connection when going to Israel and it can really uplift them. That most likely cannot be found in America.

    #813268

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Kids feel pressured from classmates and teachers to go to Israel, if all your friends are going and your favorite teacher says to go. You want to go.

    But the reality is not all kids are ready. Some are mature to go and others are not.

    My personal advice is the following. It IS alot of money and I dont know your financial situtuation

    IF you can afford it, take a trip to Israel and see her.

    If you CANT afford it, try skyping with Webcam that way you can have an interactive chat with her, Its the next best thing to being there.

    #813269

    EzratHashem
    Member

    Parents are afraid of their kids today, saying no has become the dreaded ordeal, this seems true from the smallest to the biggest kids. With the little ones they get prizes for every correct behavior, that years ago we were just stam expected to do because it was right. With the older ones we’re afraid to tell them they can’t go to sem or have all the perks their friends have, for fear of rebellion or mental health problems. It’s sad.

    #813270

    yungerman1
    Participant

    Seminary in E”Y is great for most girls and for exactly this reason. I know this sounds harsh, but an 18 year old should be mature enough to survive some time on her own. I know being away till Pesach is a long time, but for those who have been to sleep away camp then they should manage just fine after some difficult adjustment. And for those who have never been away from their parents for a night, then its about time. I dont know if starting off with six months away is the best approach, but the process needs to start now. In a year from now you will let her start dating and get married. Will she be magically ready to move out of her parents house then?

    Are we pampering our kids so much that they cant survive without living in the same house as Mom and Dad? I am not knocking the parents or the children, but we need to raise our kids with the tools to have a life of their own.

    I understand that every kid is different, and some are not ready at 18 which may be the case with AriG’s daughter, but I am generalizing.

    Its definitely a very difficult adjustment, but the girls come out the other end much matured and more emotionally prepared for life.

    #813271

    adorable
    Participant

    i dont think you should worry about it. im sure shes going to love it in the end.

    #813272

    littleapple
    Member

    I don’t mean to belittle you or your daughter’s homesickness at all but if you are paying 21k it means you don’t qualify for TAP, Pell, Massa, BY scholarship money, all of which basically brings down the price by half, which means you can probably afford to pop over and visit Chanukah time, bring her back for Pesach, which means she should really get over it how long is it going to be before she sees Mommy and Tatty, already? Again please be mochail but we all need to understand the culture we are raising our kids in and what the mussar avicha v’toras imecha calls upon us to do. And maybe considering the Sems mentioned above is called for on your part and not calling for inventing a so called top-line new sem.

    #813275

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I agree with OP. Girls are so dumb.

    They drive themselves crazy to get into some boy’s yeshiva, and then they don’t even like it.

    That is why they should just stay in the kitchen.

    #813276

    apushatayid
    Participant

    “Where would you take a tiyul to”

    She could go on a 6 week tour of E”Y and tiyul to her hearts content, while saving her parents most of that 21k. If any of my children ever told me they wanted to go to E”Y for yeshiva or seminary and used “tiyul” as an argument, I would sign them up for a 6 week tour and enroll them in a local yeshiva/seminary.

    #813277

    adorable
    Participant

    POPA- you made me laugh. as a girl, its cute to hear your voice on the topic. i love hearing how every guy thinks they know that girls should be doing better than they know themselves.

    #813279

    ChanieE
    Participant

    Not qualifying for financial aid means earning too much to be considered poor and get some help, but not rich enough to afford the lifestyle we would like!

    I wish I could pop over and visit my daughter (and E”Y, where I haven’t been in close to 20 years), but we’re scrimping to make our tuitions and we don’t have a spare few thousand dollars.

    #813280

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    if you are paying 21k it means you don’t qualify for TAP, Pell, Massa, BY scholarship money, all of which basically brings down the price by half,

    Never heard of these (Pell, TAP) being used out of country. I have no idea what MASSA is (tried looking it up online, got the Gorilla), and Sems don’t (in general, from what I have heard) offer scholarships. Could you please discribe how you have used these programs to lower your cost (L’Toeles HaRabbim)?

    #813281

    ChanieE
    Participant

    “MASA Israel journey is a project of the Government of Israel and Jewish communities around the world, represented by the Jewish Agency for Israel and its partners, United Jewish Communities / the Federations of North America, and Keren Hayesod – UIA.”

    They offer a small grant that is not needs-based, and they also offer scholarships.

    American financial aid programs could probably be used if the student is enrolled in an American school, even if they take the classes elsewhere.

    #813283

    soliek
    Member

    i agree. can you get a refund?

    #813284

    littleapple
    Member

    It wasn’t easy but we already sent two girls for the year in Sem. at just a little more than we paid for 12th grade so it is worth the hassles with applications and qualifications. BY private scholarships also exist if you seek them out (and swallow pride btw)

    #813285

    chanie
    Member

    I have a CD that I purchased in where I heard Rav Shmuel Kamentzky, Shlita, when asked in the summer of 2010 during an Irgun Q&A in the Bostoner shul on Ave. J. what’s his opinion of girls going to Seminary in E.Y. He answered, girls should not go as well as most boys. He did not go into much detail, but he did say that a good percentage of them come out worse or change for the worse then when they went there. In addition, he said that here in America, you have seminaries on par with their Israeli counterparts.

    That being said and your daughter is in Eretz Yisroel, it is common knowledge that the first 2 weeks of seminary is a time for crying sessions. Then comes ????? which for most girls is a very lonely and depressing time. Unless she is still homesick, she should be okay by Chanukah ????? ???.

    #813286

    Hummingbird
    Participant

    Can anyone tell me please what if anything you know about Rabbi Wallerstein’s Seminary called Ateres Naava that he has together w/ college? I’m a single divorced mother & I have a daughter in 12th grade & I’m trying to see which Seminary here in Brooklyn would be an option for her for next yr, IY”H? She already told me based on what we heard about the new one from R’. Assaf, that she does not want to go there nor does she want B.Y. Seminary either. I feel like I don’t have too many options besides Machon. So I’m just wondering if that might even be an option for her or not? Any suggestions/insights, please?

    #813287

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    ChanieE & littleapple: Thank you.

    ChanieE: That would mean that your credits would have to be accredited in Israel. I know Michlala & BJJ do so, but I’m not sure about the other “minor” Sems. None the less, it is something to look into for those sending to Israel.

    #813288

    littleapple
    Member

    TAP and Pell can be used with Touro Israel or Skokie (Seminary) and your daughter will come back with up to 55 transferable college credits. Many but not all sems participate.

    #813289

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    TAP and Pell can be used with Touro Israel or Skokie (Seminary) and your daughter will come back with up to 55 transferable college credits. Many but not all sems participate.

    Good to know! Thank you.

    #813290

    GumBall
    Member

    Arig-Its supposed 2 be an AMAZING sem!! TONZ of people are talking about it!!

    #813291

    BaalHabooze
    Participant

    by the end of the year she’ll be crying to stay in E”Y. It’s harder for the parents, but beleive me she’s gonna LOVE it.However, it really shouldn’t be the standard to have to send daughters to E”Y. My wife stayed in town for seminary and loved it, learned plenty and grew spiritually.

    #813292

    aries2756
    Participant

    Arig, the choice to send to E”Y for seminary was a choice you made as a family. Not everyone chooses to do so. The fact that your daughter is homesick at this time, is not something to be worried about because it is not unusual. The thing to do at this point is not to bite your lips to keep from saying “i told you so” but to support her decision to go. Allow her to vent and reassure her that you miss her as well but you will both survive the separation. Remind her that this is an amazing opportunity and she is just not used to her surroundings. Everything new takes an adjustment period and that even though others might seem stronger than she and are not displaying their emotions, they too feel the same way, they are just dealing with their homesickness better. It is never easy to be away from family during holidays, but what an amazing opportunity to be in E”Y ir hakodesh for the Yomim Noraim. Ask her about the schedule the seminary has planned for them. Ask her about the tiyulim they have planned for her. Ask her about what she has already seen and who the girls are.

    Remind her how she had to adjust to sleep away camp and how Mommy had to adjust to her being away from home as well. Remind her that she is a young adult right now, and that this is just the first of the many adventures she will be experiencing in her new adult life. Suggest that she write her feelings, thoughts and emotions in a journal show she can look back on them in a month, two months and further down the line. She will be amazed that she even felt this way or considering going home in a few months time. It will be something you will all laugh about in the future. Send lots of hugs and kisses and remind her that you are always with her no matter where she is.

    #813293

    am yisrael chai
    Participant

    It’s still September!

    How long has she been there, a week?

    She should give herself a chance and the time to adjust!

    #813294

    tahini
    Member

    Ariq, I am sure all of us can identify with your worries and anxiety about your daughter but as is being said on the posts here, it is still very early days.

    There was a song in the 1950’s called ” camp granada” where a homesick boy reads out a sad pitiful homesic card to his parents as he sits inside at summer camp on a rainy day, as the sun comes out his mood changes and he ends the card ” kindly disregard this letter” . It is still September and with all the chagim etc it is hard for a young girl to be away, but it is also enriching and beneficial too. I hope soon she will settle, it is natural for kids to unburden themselves only to feel better in a short time. Be strong and try and think positive, of course a sem in NY sounds great, but to be in Eretz Yisrael is an experience second to none she may well thank you for later on!

    #813295

    farrockgrandma
    Participant

    Part of being homesick is missing friends and family, and what may make it worse is feeling lonely. Does she have friends there? I was also there at that age, and the group was wonderful, but some of them stick to the friends from home and are not welcoming to new faces. Does she have family or people from home to connect to? (I can loan you a few) Many of the seminaries refer the girls to chessed opportunities, with families with small children. Talking to girls I know there, it seems that there are so many young married women originally from America. Wouldn’t it be a good idea to establish an alumni association for each of the American schools, TAG, Bais Yaakov, etc, to provide a support group for the girls from their neighborhood who come for seminary?

    #813296

    dvorak
    Member

    There are a lot of reasons why seminary in EY should not be the default, but this is not one of them; there are many reasons why you might not allow your other daughters to go to EY, but this should not be one of them. My sister is in seminary in EY this year too, so I know all the seminaries started a scant 3 weeks ago- this is NOT enough time to decide that your daughter must hate it there because that’s what she’s saying right now.

    #813297

    i suggest that under NO circumstances should you bring her home. Make her grow up. …even if its the hard way.

    #813298

    golden mom
    Member

    half the problem today is that the girls all need to have a cell phone in israel and the all have a magic jack phone in there dorm with a 718 number so basicly they can call home 24 7 and there so busy calling home and seeing what they are missing verses yrs ago when we didnt have cell phone or 718 numbers and a phone call home was very expensive we spoke home i think once a month and relayed important things we didnt see what we were missing we were too busy having fun and making friends and not standing on line to call everybody in the family once a day to see whats going on..

    #813299

    Imaofthree
    Participant

    One of the things that amazes me about most of these Israeli seminaries is that we americans plop down thousands of dollars on a school we have never seen, nor have we even spoken to the heads of the seminary. The girls wait by the mailbox in February (?) to get the letter of acceptance to these schools. Then comes the packing the shopping, more packing and shopping. They finally get there and oh no, there are all these changes! The food is not like mommy’s, they miss being home for shabbos, they have to share a room with two other people, it’s so hot/freezing, the homesickness and the tears come. This is all normal and part of the seminary year. The one thing I would suggest is maybe call the aim bayit of the seminary and mention your daughter is really homesick. I am sure she has a trick or two up her sleeve for homesick girls. Good luck!

    #813300

    kapusta
    Participant

    As was mentioned, its only the beginning. Give her a chance to get settled. Just watch, in 9 months or so you’ll be on the phone with her trying to talk her into coming home instead of spending extra time with her friends.

    *kapusta*

    #813301

    I think it was a great deal- it’ll teach her a little independence. Its not good for someone to be hanging off their mommys apron strings at that age. 21,000 bucks is not a bad price for your daughters maturity.

    Shes been there at most 2-3 weeks…it takes most girls until Chanukah before they arent homesick and then they dont even want to go home for pesach because they love it so much.

    Dont worry so much. When the year is over she’ll be crying to go back…

    #813302

    MorahRach
    Member

    Who ever is saying ” stop worrying about the money”, either is bH comfortable enough that they have no need to worry, or has not had to invest in things such as seminary yet. That is a foolish thing to say.

    Anyway.

    Seminary in Israel and seminary here are SO different you cant compare them. The experiences girls get in Israel is just on a different level, a beautiful level. She just got there. Please please don’t make yourself sick over this. Wait a few weeks, a few months, and youl see she will make the best friends of her life there, she will meet amazing rabbanim, she will grow spiritually. It will be great.

    When i was in college even, i was 5 hours away from home and the first 3 weeks i would call my mother everyday crying hysterically, i even missed a class or two because i could not function i wanted to come home so badly, i was so mad at myself for choosing to learn so far away…at about the 1 month mark, i calmed down and realized how great it was to be so independent, and my years in school were some of the best in my life. It takes a while to grow up and get used to being away from mom and dad. Give her some time.

    BUT it is perfectly ok to fret that you have just wasted 21 grand, because to most people that is a fortune.

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