April 30, 2023 11:05 am at 11:05 am #2185499
Z, I mean papers in research journals that compare health statistics on people after taking a vaccine with others who did not. A number of of them uncovered elevated risks from the vaccines, like myocarditis in young males. Europeans changed recommended vaccines for younger population based on some of this research. There was also a finding that having more time between two vaccines was safer. Etc. Also, when you put even worst estimates of the vaccine risk v. virus risk, for all groups, risk from virus was higher. Researchers by now have access to millions and millions of health records, and conclusions seem to be pretty definite.
As to sudden deaths, I think those are attributed to the damage from the virus itself. Virus seems to be affecting various organs in the body, leaving lasting damage. this might be especially true in communities that were totally uncareful and people were exposed to multiple versions of the virus (wuhan, delta, omicron).April 30, 2023 12:07 pm at 12:07 pm #2185551
@Yserbius123 because your friend google isnt showing you those doesn’t mean they don’t exist…Let me repeat this, there was a 8 hours conf gathering rabanim and physicians, a halachic decision with a copy in my possesion, and another one called second opinion. I’m sorry to break this to you but whoever is telling you they don’t exist is lying to you and you should stop believing them and you should stop your attempts to silence me by discrediting all the evidence. I’m answering those fools despite the low level of their comments. Sounds like the only tactic they found to silence people is bully&play dumb. This is so impressive.April 30, 2023 12:07 pm at 12:07 pm #2185550
See, the previous post is a perfect example of why you shouln’t use any AI tech even when you are strugling with common sense vs unintelligible..May 1, 2023 1:03 pm at 1:03 pm #2185871Yserbius123Participant
@Zetruth Someone linked to the video of the conference. You originally claimed it was with the Crown Heights Beis Din. It clearly was not, it was just a few random people in various positions in Chabad. So I’m skeptical when you claim that you have “in your hands” a halachic decision by an authority.May 1, 2023 1:39 pm at 1:39 pm #2185900
I contacted the Beis Din. This conference was not them. And they never issued such a psak.May 1, 2023 1:40 pm at 1:40 pm #2185901
it is a big world. People die all the time. Even those that are young and perfectly healthy. I know it’s scary. Your mommy can explain it to you.
PS There is a statistical model to show any increase in deaths. There. Don’t you feel better already?May 2, 2023 11:05 am at 11:05 am #2186235
So so naive..May 7, 2023 10:46 pm at 10:46 pm #2188012Neville Chaim BerlinParticipant
“it is a big world. People die all the time. Even those that are young and perfectly healthy. I know it’s scary. Your mommy can explain it to you.”
Where was this logic in 2020?May 8, 2023 12:42 pm at 12:42 pm #2188226Yserbius123ParticipantMay 8, 2023 1:12 pm at 1:12 pm #2188241
Not just in 2020, until today!May 8, 2023 3:21 pm at 3:21 pm #2188324
That logic was very much in place. Priority was placed on stopping the spread in a haphazard bureaucratic fashion. The primary logic was to give time to develop remedies and disperse equipment. If what we actually saw happen was a cultural reaction or the clinical intention is beyond my research capabilities.
But the more the dust settles it’s more and more apparent that the USA really bungled this whole thing. (And I don’t mean that as a political indictment or endorsement. Americans struggled with adversity on a national scale. For maybe the first time in it’s history.)
PS If people wouldn’t have been sick for so long – and the same small percentage died, there wouldn’t have been any shutdown.May 9, 2023 7:22 am at 7:22 am #2188453
CDC has a site Provisional Mortality Statistics, 2018 through Last Month Results. I plotted weekly total deaths in USA by week.
2018 and 2019 have winter peaks of 67K and 58K and summer lowers of 50K both.
2020 jumped from 60K to 80k for several weeks, from March to May;
again from Oct 2020 to Feb 2021, reaching 90K in the middle of that (with vaccine)
then from July 2021 to Feb 2022 with a peak of 85K at the top (delta)
then Nov 2022 to Feb 2023 with a smaller peak of 70K (Omircon)
lowest level during summers of 2021 and 2022 is 57K v. 50K in previous years.
plots going to normal previous levels in the last 2 months when data is available – Feb, March 2023 (this does not mean that there are no covid attributed deaths, as there is expected decline due to vulnerable peopple who died 1-2 years before their time).May 9, 2023 7:24 am at 7:24 am #2188455
this site allows a lot of filtering – by state, age. type of area, ethnic groups. I looked at the “healthier” group – 25-35 y.o.
There is less seasonality in 2018-2019 – deaths are in 1000-1200/week for 2018-19, then there is a clear jump in March 2020 to 1400-1600 band, reaching 1800 in Sep 2021, and going back to pre-covid numbers in Feb 2023.
For ages 5-14, need to smooth data to see the trend but still there is one – pre-covid 105/week
increased to 125/week starting first week of June 2020 (end of school year at home) and staying similarly elevated until Feb 2023 and normal now.
I think it could be last several weeks of data is not final and could be adjusted, but the trend is healthy for the last several months.
You don’t have to go to this crazy gov site, but I just wanted to make sure I am looking at raw data and not corrected by some web developers.May 9, 2023 8:21 am at 8:21 am #2188497
@nomesorah “But the more the dust settles it’s more and more apparent that the USA really bungled this whole thing. (And I don’t mean that as a political indictment or endorsement. Americans struggled with adversity on a national scale. For maybe the first time in it’s history.)”
I will ad to this: America started struggling on a international scale, then it became national. People start seeing how their govt is doing others nations wrong and themselves too. No one can tolerate this totalitarian regime any longer.May 9, 2023 5:23 pm at 5:23 pm #2188779
What is the international scale you refer to? I don’t see any totalitarian regime here. I see a bumbling bureaucracy.May 9, 2023 6:07 pm at 6:07 pm #2188800
Ok. Can anyone tell me how I delete my account and my posts, this platform was the wrong place to post anythingMay 9, 2023 6:28 pm at 6:28 pm #2188822
Just ask Zaphod.May 10, 2023 6:10 am at 6:10 am #2188980
I don’t have to ask anyone, this option should be clearly visible on the bottom of the site or the topMay 10, 2023 9:15 am at 9:15 am #2189086ubiquitinParticipant
let that be a lesson for life . Eveything is recorded thnk before you speak.
When you record your foolishness it remains there for all to see and laughMay 10, 2023 12:00 pm at 12:00 pm #2189170Avram in MDParticipant
“this platform was the wrong place to post anything”
Why?May 11, 2023 11:30 am at 11:30 am #2189578May 11, 2023 2:53 pm at 2:53 pm #2189720
I’m still waiting for some real info. The Crown Heights Bais Din never hosted such a conference.May 11, 2023 4:13 pm at 4:13 pm #2189729
Nomesorah, it’s not because you couldn’t find it that it didn’t exist!
This Content Was Published at https://collive .com/rabbinical-panel-hears-8-hours-of-anti-vaxx-testimonyMay 11, 2023 4:14 pm at 4:14 pm #2189737
Indifference to evil is more insidious than evil itself. It is a silent justification affording evil acceptability in society.May 11, 2023 5:33 pm at 5:33 pm #2189786
The Member of the Crown Heights Beis Din mentione din the link was not part of the conference. He, Rabbi Avrohom Osdoba was actually the one who put out a statement to follow doctors and take the vaccine.
I’m aware of this conference. They is not much in it even worth debating. Might as well just watch eight hours of Mickey Mouse.May 11, 2023 8:21 pm at 8:21 pm #2189833
Nomesoroh is a bot, I knew this from the beginning, it might need a resetMay 11, 2023 9:15 pm at 9:15 pm #2189849
Ze, thanks for the link! for those who don’t want to go to the link: the article lists who the panel was: a son of a BD member, a SIL of a former BD member, a melamed, someone who runs a Hotline, a sofer, a Rabbi, and a chiropractor. This is not Beis din, or even individual members of BD.
The article quotes at the end an actual BD member: Rabbi Yosef Braun, member of the Bais Din of Crown Heights, issued a clear call to members of the community not to follow the “lone” opinions of doctors, rather the majority who recommend being vaccinated
So, we can restore the honor of CH BD, B’H.May 11, 2023 9:15 pm at 9:15 pm #2189850
R Bruan has some interesting expressions:
I am not going to give an answer whether one should vaccinate or not, but I want to discuss the principle of Torah … medical questions are to be determined by doctors. You are not the barometer of truth. This principle that people should debate whether we should vaccinate or not vaccinate, and everybody has an opinion on the matter, is anathema to Torah.
“You are not entitled to your opinion when it comes to medical matters!
“You are not entitled to your opinion when it comes to Torah matters!
“A, It’s a waste of time and bittul Torah. And B, the Rebbe wrote to people many times when it came to medical matters, they should not research this matter. They should listen to the doctors and not involve their minds in their condition other than to listen to doctors’ instructions,” Rabbi Braun said.
That was years ago, before the “information superhighway,” Rabbi Braun said. Nowadays, with the “social media explosion, everybody has an opinion which they spread around all over.”
“Every one of these WhatsApp groups should be closed completely – they have nothing to contribute to this discussion,” he said. “You can’t even answer a question about v’sen tal umatar, you are going to decide about pikuach nefesh issues – issues of life and death?!”
And someone will say, I will find a doctor who agrees with my opinion…I will shop out for a rov who agrees with my opinion,” he said.
“Conspiracy theories about doctors and Rabbonim is apikorsis,” he said. “You are not an expert – you are not the one to decide if there should be an eruv or not, or to vaccinate or not.”
“Furthermore, you have no ownership of your body to begin with. That’s another principle of Torah – nobody has ownership of their body. This whole concept of liberalism where I get to decide what I feel is right and you are taking away my rights to make choices for myself, is also not according to the Torah,” he said. “You are not to decide whether to get vaccinated or not – that is a flawed way of thinking.”May 15, 2023 12:00 pm at 12:00 pm #2190476
Indifference to evil is a consequence of indifference to objectivity.
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