August 5, 2021 1:00 pm at 1:00 pm #1997389
Because I refuse to take a vaccine I do not need! I recovered from Covid earlier this year and I already have antibodies so try shaming me into getting a vaccine I do not need.August 5, 2021 1:06 pm at 1:06 pm #1997433MenoParticipant
YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF!!!!
(Did it work?)August 5, 2021 3:38 pm at 3:38 pm #1997437
Its your decision. Likewise, its the gabbai’s decision to keep you out of shul if the membership has voted to require ALL mispalalim (regardless of prior Covid infection) to upload a copy of their vaccination card before entering the building. Freedom of choice on both sides.August 5, 2021 3:39 pm at 3:39 pm #1997439ymribiatParticipant
The anti vaccination cult isnt validated by Covid.
Reminds me of an actor who was asked if he was vegan. He answered, “No, I’m Babtist.”
The anti vaccination position isnt grounded in אידישקייט, it’s a foolish fad.August 5, 2021 3:40 pm at 3:40 pm #19974412scentsParticipant
You are oversimplifying something that is complex.
Preliminary data suggest that natural immunity from previous strains is below the desired level when it comes to the delta strain.
When compared to vaccine acquired immunity, while less effective than the previous strains, it still is within the desired range of immunity.
there is not a lot of data on the delta variant, but below is from an article in nature named:
Reduced sensitivity of SARS-CoV-2 variant Delta to antibody neutralization
“We examined the sensitivity of this strain to monoclonal antibodies and to antibodies present in sera from individuals who had recovered from COVID-19 (hereafter referred to as convalescent individuals) or who had received a COVID-19 vaccine, and then compared this strain with other strains of SARS-CoV-2. The Delta variant was resistant to neutralization by some anti-NTD and anti-RBD monoclonal antibodies, including bamlanivimab, and these antibodies showed impaired binding to the spike protein. Sera collected from convalescent individuals up to 12 months after the onset of symptoms were fourfold less potent against the Delta variant relative to the Alpha variant (B.1.1.7).”August 5, 2021 3:41 pm at 3:41 pm #1997447
August 5, 2021 (Houston, TX) 11:51 AM CDT
Texas Republican leader dies of COVID-19 five days after anti-vaccination post
A Texas Republican leader who was hospitalized with COVID-19 died Wednesday evening, just days after he shared a post on social media questioning the effectiveness of the coronavirus vaccine. The Republican Party said that Scott Apley, a member of the State Republican Executive Committee. had died.
While the party did not specify the cause of death, his family said he was admitted to a hospital Sunday with “pneumonia-like symptoms and tested positive for COVID.” “God remains in control although this is yet another tough one to swallow,” the organization added.
Apley, had shared a post on Facebook just two days before he was hospitalized that questioned the credibility and effectiveness of the COVID-19 vaccine. Apley had also previously vocalized his opposition to vaccinations and mask mandates, and in May shared a flyer for a mask burning event.August 5, 2021 3:44 pm at 3:44 pm #1997457
Get a fake vaccine card. It’s easy.August 5, 2021 6:28 pm at 6:28 pm #1997491
ujm, what you suggesting is genevas daas. If he believes in not vaccinating, let him suffer the consequences.August 5, 2021 6:43 pm at 6:43 pm #1997529
Anyone who considers you an anti vaxxer for waiting on this vaccine is either a bully or a moron. Just walk away.August 5, 2021 6:43 pm at 6:43 pm #1997526
Reb E – BRAVO! Your blind hatred has led you to CURSE a fellow jew. how sad is that. Really now, instead of pretending you didn’t, don’t you think maybe it’s time to step out of these discussions? What a tragedy.August 5, 2021 6:45 pm at 6:45 pm #1997518vaccParticipant
ujm how do I get a fake vaccine card?August 5, 2021 7:32 pm at 7:32 pm #1997548
Syag: No one (especially the Chief Rav of the CR) is “cursing” anyone. The OP clearly states he believes he is “safe” w/o the vaccine and by implication, willing to accept the risks and consequences. As noted above, those consequences for anti-vaxers can come very quickly and with tragic finality. If that is an individual’s choice, so be it and let the cards fall where they may. Getting vaccinated, even for those who experienced prior Covid infections, doesn’t guarantee safety but certainly provide some additional level of protectionAugust 5, 2021 7:34 pm at 7:34 pm #1997545
Syag, you misunderstood. The consequences does not mean that he should get sick as if he gets a card, it will not save him from it but the peoples scorn for not vaccinating.August 5, 2021 7:34 pm at 7:34 pm #1997546
See the thing is I believe in getting the vaccine if you never got covid to protect yourself but it’s asinine to think that the a vaccine gives you greater immunity then natural immunity. You don’t know how vaccines work if you actually believe that and yes I know you can source some study in India that says the opposite but you can always find some wacko doctor to support crazy ideas like boys and girls sex is not defined at birth and protesting in BLM riots will not lead to covid spreading
The main thing everyone should keep in mind is not to follow the wackos on any side and to stay sane. This disease is not lemaleh min hatevah and BH doesn’t effect kids so if your old fat or sick then get the vaccine because covid edited and if you a kid do not get the vaccine. If your middle of the road and healthy thenAugust 5, 2021 7:51 pm at 7:51 pm #1997557
RM- so if you made up all that scientific information then you are being stupid. Unless a doctor confirmed your feelings on it, it’s worth nothing. I have never heard anyone argue against the fact that the vaccine gives you more antibodies. The argument is about how long your own last and if there are enough.
Forgive my lack of scientific knowledge but my antibody after being sick was 28 point something. One year later is was exactly the same. Lovely. That may have defied all the fear mongering put out thete but it still doesn’t tell me that i can beat the delta. And im smart enough to know that i can’t apply my own logic or education to this. I also know the news outlets are full of garbage. But my job is to gind out from trusted medical people what works, not spew my own theories.August 5, 2021 7:52 pm at 7:52 pm #1997558
> asinine to think that the a vaccine gives you greater immunity then natural immunity.
I respect you asking the question and approaching it with the research attitude. Could you quote what you found regarding antibody serology tests a couple of months after the COVID and after the vaccine? This will help you convince RebE to let you into CR minyan!
In addition to those numbers, there are additional questions to consider, though:
– how much COVID you have? probably best is to get your own serology test. You probably already had – would you mind sharing it with us, given that you are anonymous here?
– possibly (sic!) disease gives broader protection via other mechanisms, not captured by serologyAugust 5, 2021 7:57 pm at 7:57 pm #1997561
RebE > let him suffer the consequences.
I wonder whether courts (American or Jewish) can help sort it out. Could you sue a person who is creating a risk to you and, thus limits your behavior and business? Let’s presume for simplicity: I have a store and if all customers were vaccinated, I would not need any additional measures. So, can I sue all non-vaxed people who came in for the expenses of masks, barriers, testing, air filters, etc?
There is a reason parking tickets work – a lot of small punishments are effective in preventing most of bad behaviors.August 5, 2021 8:39 pm at 8:39 pm #1997568
RM -“This disease is not lemaleh min hatevah and BH doesn’t effect kids so if your old fat or sick then get the vaccine because covid edited and if you a kid do not get the vaccine.”
Just because you’re a Yesivish Guy – doesn’t give you the Right to do Averios, like Lying!
From the News:
“On Wednesday, during a COVID-19 briefing with city and county officials, leaders announced that an 11-month-old with COVID-19 was admitted to the ICU at University Hospital. Officials said there is also a 4-year-old on a ventilator in the ICU at the Children’s Hospital of San Antonio.”
Since they don’t give it to Kids – the only way to protect them is with Herd Immunity!August 5, 2021 11:53 pm at 11:53 pm #1997604
Health > Since they don’t give it to Kids – the only way to protect them is with Herd Immunity!
Just make the herd behave – you want it to be a light exposure, not a heavy one. At least make sure that the kids are not siting in a non-ventilated room with the same people for hours.August 6, 2021 3:08 am at 3:08 am #1997615Shimon NodelParticipant
I definitely understand your perspective 100%
On the other hand, why not just get it – lehashvos hadvarim?
Does it hurt? What’s the harm?
I myself also got very sick with covid last year (I am 27 with no health issues, and I was preparing myself to accept death as real possibility. Hodu LaShem I eventually got better.)
I have the antibodies, so I most likely did not need the vaccine.
But I got the vaccines anyway! Because why not?! It makes others feel better, which is probably the most important reason to get vaccinated – it’s very important not to cause other Yidden anguish, especially your family members regardless if they are right or wrong. Don’t you want to help others so they shouldn’t be stressed out? Also, if there is even the remote possibility that the vaccines will protect me from getting sick – even if it’s just a cold, so that’s good too. It’s like extra credit. I’ll admit, I got very sick each time I got the vaccine because having antibodies could cause your body to react strongly to the vaccine. But it wasn’t a big deal, I got it over with. I’m done. So nu, why wouldn’t you just do it?
Full disclosure (I am definitely not interested in getting a booster because I already got very sick twice from from the first two.) But at least I can truthfully state I am fully vaccinated.August 6, 2021 8:56 am at 8:56 am #1997617
In 3 months they will vilify you for not getting a booster shot.
What does it hurt?? How do we know the long term impact of getting this vaccine? If you never got covid and are older/ unhealthy then the risk to benefit ratio is very much on the taking the vaccine side because we know what the risk is but to get a vaccine which you don’t need is plain stupid and just because the whole world collectively lost their minds with mask mandates and lockdowns doesn’t mean I’m also going to act irradicly without reasoned logic.
And to the peeps yelling about how it’s not asinine to suggest vaccines give greater immunity then regular antibodies doesn’t understand how vaccines work. Vaccines is just the actual virus which has been nudured to not kill you or something that mimics the virus which is then injected into people strictly to make their bodies produce antibodies as if they had the disease.August 6, 2021 9:00 am at 9:00 am #1997635
Shimon: I’m glad you are vaccinated and agree entirely with your thought process as to why others should also do so. Sorry you had a negative response to the shots but global data indicate such responses are still relatively rare and almost all who have after-effects recover quickly. As more private businesses mandate vaccination, it may soon become a necessity for all who want to travel and participate in the economy. Slowly, the holdouts will be dragged into vaccination, especially after the CDC grants full approval in the next month or so for Pfizer and later for Moderna.August 6, 2021 9:02 am at 9:02 am #1997618Abba_SParticipant
I too have not been vaccinated. I took the antibody test last year and had >400 and am testing every 6 months to insure I have antibodies. My last test was 97.6 so I basically don’t see a purpose to take the vaccine as the reason for taking the vaccine is to get antibodies.
The vaccine doesn’t guarantee that you wouldn’t get covid and there are side effects which may include death. So why take the risk.August 6, 2021 10:46 am at 10:46 am #1997654
Rav Asher Weiss gave a whole shiur on the general subject of inadvertent killing someone after a bachur wrote asking what teshuva he had to do after infecting people who died. He brought down Rabbi Akiva Eiger’s teshuva (Mahadura Tanina 3) regarding someone who caused a wagon accident in which two people were killed. Among the things the person had to do was fasting every Mon and Thurs for a year, not to any simcha other than his children’s weddings, send an orphan to yeshiva until age 19, and then send another until age 18, and establish a kollel where the avereichim will learn for illuy neshmot the niftarim and say kaddish.
Getting the jab is no big deal unless you have a specific medical issue. If you have recovered you might only need one. I am shocked that people who are machmir on any little minhag are so meikal on nefashot.August 6, 2021 10:52 am at 10:52 am #1997642
“Why take the risk”
Aside from the public health benefits, which you discount, proof of vaccination may soon be a prerequisite to a number of daily activities which may or may not be a concern for you. If you live a fully sheltered life, don’t fly, don’t work for a large Fortune 500 company, don’t eat out, don’t go to a gym, etc. than it probably won’t be an issue. Otherwise, retain a good civil liberties lawyer and enjoy the litigation.August 6, 2021 10:55 am at 10:55 am #1997646
Several notes from recent research:
– Pfizer/Moderna produce more antibodies in short term, but J&J and AZ type vaccine produce more T-cells. IMPORTANT for anyone who takes immune-suppressing drugs that stop antibodies to consult a doctor to measure antibodies and possibly do J&J.
– Effect of the vaccine, both efficacy and side effects, are much more predictable: vaccine is a measured tool, disease is not. Vaccine went thru controlled trials, disease did not. Disease presumably has exactly same side effects as vaccine, except that it additionally attacks multiple body organs. This is like a gun v. a taser: a similar effect in trying to stop the person in his track, but very different outcomes “in the long run”.August 6, 2021 12:37 pm at 12:37 pm #1997680
Avi K> I am shocked that people who are machmir on any little minhag are so meikal on nefashot.
“pray for the welfare of the government”. I got new appreciation for both civil governance and halakha: people routinely follow so many rules from (mostly) stopping on red lights to (usually) saying mincha before zman, attending schools, paying for groceries, parking in the designated places. It is only when you get into an unsettled situation, then people change. Read about behaviors in Soviet and Nazi labor camps, some people behaved, some did not … Especially, when the danger is unseen…August 6, 2021 12:43 pm at 12:43 pm #1997681hujuParticipant
YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF BEING A SCHMENDRICK. Did that work?
And your friend ujm is a klutz. I call him/her that because YWN won’t print the word I really mean,editedAugust 6, 2021 1:12 pm at 1:12 pm #1997679
Avi K, thanks for the reference. The question is how to affect things lehathila. Maybe, Jewish communities instead of requiring vaccine passes, simply prepare a shtar to be signed, saying in case beis din determines me responsible I will take the practices listed above to the extent of my responsibility? That is, say, 1 of 3 people had infected 4th, then each should fast every 3rd week.
If we can figure two people holding one tales, we can figure out this.August 6, 2021 1:58 pm at 1:58 pm #1997693
Yes there is always a risk for vaccines and especially Pfizer and Moderna which are a new type of Vaccines that are called mRNA which have never been tested before and there is no data as to the long term ramifications of taking mRNA vaccines so the risk is even greater. Not only that but the icing on the cake is that if there are indeed long-term side effects of the vaccines the pharmaceutical companies that are peddling these vaccines are immune from liability!
I’m going to repeat myself for the umptieth time because people are stupid and might not understand how to read and process what I’m saying. If you never got Covid and are part of the older population then definitely take the vaccine because the risk of Covid is known and people are dying from Covid in great swaths and your an idiot if you don’t.
Now if your young and healthy which have a very low risk of dying from Covid if they contract the disease then you are a grown adult are perfectly able to make your own risk/benefit judgment call and decide for yourself if you should get the vaccine but know that its not if but when you will get Covid you will have to suffer the consequences of you decision.
And for your children that have like a 0% chance of dying from Covid, your a moron if you allow them to jab your child, they are not at all at risk of dying from this disease and the same idiots that are telling you to jab them are telling you that sex is but a social construct and that rioting in the name of George Floyd is not at all a risk!August 6, 2021 2:57 pm at 2:57 pm #1997717
RM -“And for your children that have like a 0% chance of dying from Covid, your a moron if you allow them to jab your child, they are not at all at risk of dying from this disease ”
The only Moron is You.
Kids aren’t able to get the Vax.
So how do you protect them?
Making sure anybody around them can’t transfer Covid 19 to them.
This means that they have adequate Antibodies, either through a Recent Covid 19 infection or a vaccination!August 6, 2021 3:28 pm at 3:28 pm #1997729
Resident, there is logic in your words, but part of the consideration is risk of exposure. The usual reason for extra testing of vaccines is that it is given to healthy population, of which only a small number will get exposed to a virus (think, Ebola or Yellow Fever).
In a case of a pandemic, when the pandemic is raging and those people who are at exposure (college, HS students in large groups, in poorly ventilated rooms, for example) might have say 30% chance of exposure or more. That is, you need to compare 1-to-1, or 1-to-3 risk/benefit from the virus v. risk from vaccine. Vaccine is developed by certified Western scientists, virus was developed by a team of bats and batmen. Vaccine is tested for extra safety, virus attacks your organs. Most of this is kal vahomer in favor of vaccine.
The only consideration might be an overdose. Vaccines had combined Phase 1/2 to test several doses, and then one shot to pass Phase 3 in time to save lives. I suspect that higher doses were used in order to pass the test for sure. Maybe, we should have had even more Phase 3s with different doses… Moderna just published that 1/2 and even 1/4 of doses seem to be effective, and this might be an approach to vaccinate more people in the world. “1/2 dose now is better than full does a year later”. Similarly, ongoing tests on children are using smaller doses. I see no reason why the smaller doses should not be used for any young person. There is also research showing that increasing gap between doses reduces side effects. I wish we could have voted to keep Pres Trump and his team to deal w/ Op Warp to sort all these issues out, while Pres Biden fights climate change and other sheidim.August 6, 2021 3:38 pm at 3:38 pm #1997732
Health, once I agree with you how to protect the children.August 6, 2021 3:48 pm at 3:48 pm #1997766
The only Moron is You.
Kids aren’t able to get the Vax.
LOL! Wait 6 months, or at most a year and you will see forced vaccination of kids to attend school! The only reason they aren’t pushing kids getting vaccination is the same reason the WHO just said that you shouldn’t get a 3rd shot YET, not because you don’t “need” a 3rd shot but because they are waiting for everyone over 18 to get inoculated with the 1st 2 shots. And it get better! Wait until the pharmaceutical companies start lobbying for yearly booster shots which will having nothing to do with making a profit but because they legitimately care about the wellbeing of the populace.August 6, 2021 4:27 pm at 4:27 pm #1997772
There use to be only 2 ways of achieving herd immunity when it came to viruses that is by getting the virus and recovering or dying from it. Whoever was left standing was immune from the virus so it couldn’t really go transmit to other people so the pandemic would die down. Now with vaccines they gave a 3rd option which is get the virus LITE version which made you part of the category of people that got the virus and survived. If you are an old person and got the vaccine then congratulations you are part of the group that got sick from Covid and is now extremely less likely to die.
The job of the government is get out of the way and to give each individual the ability to make their own informed decision. Right now everyone has an opportunity to get the vaccine so if someone chose not to and someone else chose not to and 1 ends up killing the other with the virus then its on the dead persons head for not getting the vaccine, not whoever doesn’t get it.August 6, 2021 6:33 pm at 6:33 pm #1997781
RM -“The only reason they aren’t pushing kids getting vaccination is the same reason the WHO just said that you shouldn’t get a 3rd shot YET, not because you don’t “need” a 3rd shot but because they are waiting for everyone over 18 to get inoculated with the 1st 2 shots.”
The Pharm companies say you need a 3rd shot.
It has nothing to do with Kids.
Maybe you should go to HS, because you don’t understand simple Science?!?
Let explain Simple Science – there is something called Antibodies against Covid 19, but they don’t last.
So you need a certain level of Antibodies to protect against the Disease called Covid 19!
“And it get better! Wait until the pharmaceutical companies start lobbying for yearly booster shots which will having nothing to do with making a profit but because they legitimately care about the wellbeing of the populace.”
See what I just wrote above.
You will need Booster Shots.
It could be once a month or once every 3 months or once every 6 months or once every year or once every 10 years.
Go learn some Basic Science, like in HS, before you post your Narishkeit!August 8, 2021 12:27 am at 12:27 am #1997874no more disinformationParticipant
there are much more people getting breakthrough infections after vaccination than natural infectionAugust 8, 2021 5:39 am at 5:39 am #1997901Yserbius123Participant
You should also be very careful about the decisions you’re making! There’s a lot of serious talk about health insurance going up for people who don’t get vaccinated. There’s a good possibility that someone who is hospitalized from COVID may be responsible for their entire medical bill (even under Medicaid)!August 8, 2021 5:41 am at 5:41 am #1997900Yserbius123Participant
I think simple math and observations can solve a whole lot.
First, think of how many people you know that died or were hospitalized from COVID-19. Think of all of those who are still having health problems. Then, think of how many people you know who died or were hospitalized from a COVID vaccine or are still having health problems. If there’s a significant difference in the numbers, your answer is a no-brainer!August 8, 2021 8:51 am at 8:51 am #1997916
I’m not scared of getting Corona, because… wait for it…. I ALREADY GOT IT!
BTW guys the CDC is now saying that even if you got the vaccine you can still transmit the disease so now there is actually no reason whatsoever l ( besides society and the government) to get the vaccine if your young and healthy.August 8, 2021 9:34 am at 9:34 am #1997946
Not getting the vaccine because you want more information or data is one thing, and more valid than people acknowledge. Not getting the vaccine because you don’t want to is infantile. It’s like these stupid anti mask protesters. Protesting mask mandates makes sense against government bodies who are ignoring the science and using it as a political pawn. Protesting masks because you don’t want people to tell you what to do is infantile. It’s equally as ignorant of the actual purpose.August 8, 2021 10:27 am at 10:27 am #1997960
And if the data indicates that those who already had COVID-19 don’t need the vaccine, then it is completely valid to choose to not get vaccinated.August 8, 2021 10:29 am at 10:29 am #1997965
Resident, vaccinated people can indeed transmit the disease but the chances are much less as are the number of people they infect. That is why in the US there is no mask requirement for those who have been vaccinated. In Israel there still is because the government wants to be extra careful.August 8, 2021 10:29 am at 10:29 am #1997968
Besides, vaccinated people have very mild symptoms if any.August 8, 2021 10:49 am at 10:49 am #1997973
People who had COVID-19 in the past are at least as well off as those who are vaccinated.August 8, 2021 10:49 am at 10:49 am #1997977
Hate to break it to you bud but your an idiot if you think a cloth mask does anything but give you a facade of protection. Buy the k95 masks if you want to actually protected but being in a room with someone with covid and you have the same chance of getting covid whether it is with or without the mask. Que all the mouth breathers calling me the idiot for pointing out the obvious fact.
Your wrong. Look at California and other major cities they are putting mask mandates whether or not you had a vaccine.August 8, 2021 10:56 am at 10:56 am #1997986
Resident Mortal- i never claimed i wasn’t an idiot. I also wasn’t making scientific claims about masks. I was commenting on how stupid it is to make protests against things without having your opposition based in fact/science. I don’t know who you are or how much knowledge you have about the facts out there, but i can tell you that you rant like a teenager and it isn’t giving you credibility. if you really are a grown adult with actual access to valid covid information (supporting either view), you may want to brush up on your presentation if you would like to be taken seriously.August 8, 2021 11:37 am at 11:37 am #1997990
> Buy the k95 masks if you want to actually protected but being in a room with someone with covid and you have the same chance of getting covid whether it is with or without the mask.
I agree that K95 are better if you choose to be in the room with someone for some time. Note that rooms can be made safer with open doors/windows/vents. In my tests with 2 people in a small room with 6 work places, having regular vents does not help, but just opening a door to a corridor solves the problem (CO2 level goes back almost outside level, that is air circulates out).August 8, 2021 11:38 am at 11:38 am #1997988
> data indicates that those who already had COVID-19 don’t need the vaccine, then it is completely valid to choose to not get vaccinated.
Data seems to indicate that disease provide antibody protection against cases on par with J&J, lower than mRNAs. There are lots of variables here:
– J&J and maybe disease provide better T-cell protection than mRNA, thus less protection against infection, but more against severe disease
– disease protection is proportional to severity. So, if someone had a weak case, then they may not have developed immunity
– San Francisco already authorized one mRNA after J&J, so given that disease protection is akin to J&J and varies, a similar approach makes sense
– best protection seem to be from 2 different vectors – mRNA and J&J/A-Z. Probably disease and mRNA will also work wellAugust 8, 2021 12:02 pm at 12:02 pm #1997952philosopherParticipant
You may want to reconsider your position and take the shot regardless if you have natural immunity. Look how effective the shots are in Israel…NOT. Another positive to taking this so-called “vaccine” that doesn’t immunize to covid-19 so that you can still get infected nor does it prevent you from spreading it to others, is that it lines the pockets of many, many involved in this scam.
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