August 8, 2021 12:23 pm at 12:23 pm #1997997
AAQ -“best protection seem to be from 2 different vectors – mRNA and J&J/A-Z. Probably disease and mRNA will also work well”
Again you’re Singing the Vax route.
As a Medical professional, I can’t understand why the Government is only pushing Vaccinations.
Vaccines work as we have seen in the last 70 years.
But who knows about vaccines that they produced in less than a year?!?
I can definitely see that some government officials are getting a Kickback from the Pharmaceutical companies!
I did get 2 doses of a mRna Vax, but as we see from the Delta variant – this isn’t the Answer.
I also take 100mg of Zinc with Quercitin everyday.
The dose for an actual Covid 19 infection is 200mg daily.
You can’t take that for a long time because of Zinc toxicity!August 8, 2021 12:44 pm at 12:44 pm #1997999
From what ive learned so far the delta variant has a different symptom list than the original and is hitting a different population and in a different manner. Is that typical of a virus? Or is this just phase 2 of engineered china virus?August 8, 2021 2:23 pm at 2:23 pm #1998008
> Is that typical of a virus?
A classical theory said that viruses become more contagious but less virulent “in long term” because mutations that kill the hosts do not propagate much. It is understood now that it is not always so, especially given billions of hosts, crampled in large cities and travelling in the airplanes, available for mutations.
on the other hand, even if weapon developer did not think about using virus attacks on such large scale, they for sure are thinking about it now.August 8, 2021 2:30 pm at 2:30 pm #1998020
Health > , I can’t understand why the Government is only pushing Vaccinations.
Current gov is not pushing anything much. They continue using vaccines they got from Trump, and working on getting a new head of FDA. This is a difficult task tht they hope to accomplish soon.
The argument for focusing on vaccines that we became a society of stupid. The solution works when it is automated and does not require human effort. People read fbook instead of books freely available at the libraries. They buy 1-click from amazon things they could have bought years ago from a wholesale store 30 minutes away. If you manage to convince people to get to a CVS for a vaccine, you achieved a lot. Many other complimentary efforts require a human effort from public or doctors, it is hard. Some doctors in advanced hospitals do not order antibody test for vaccine immunity because CDC does not recommend and the hospital system does not allow ordering. No kidding. Some of the medicines are not used fully because the protocol of using them ina hospital is too complicated.
Re: your protocols (in addition to the vaccine, I presume), it is called “multi layered defense”, is used in all militaries, including defense against nuclear or any other mass attacks. For example, Israelis use Iron Dome, but also sirens to tell population to hide, and Arrow for other types of missiles. This is what Yaakov does before meeting Esav.
So, at minimum, people should continue SD to whatever level they can do, keep ventilation up, eat vitamins, exercise, and daven.August 9, 2021 9:50 am at 9:50 am #1997769
> Making sure anybody around them can’t transfer Covid 19 to them.
For the coming year, hopefully things will get better unless Delta leads to some Zeta, but try to keep common sense measures for kids: open windows, keep air filters working, do not go to big Simchas, do not travel constantly for no reason. editedAugust 9, 2021 10:14 am at 10:14 am #1998084hmlParticipant
I had vax #1, got Covid, recovered, got Vax #2 & I’m waiting for the booster.
I heard a semi-funny “joke” the other day…a child overheard mom reminiscing with Bubby about getting chicken pox. He asked what is chicken pox? Well, says mom, you don’t know what it is because there’s a vaccine….
Anti-vaxers put my immuno-compromised grandkids at risk. They can’t be vaxed, but you selfish people who refuse to get the vaccination could pass on the virus to them. But what do you care? As long as you get to have your rights… what about my grandkids’ rights to be safe from disease?August 9, 2021 10:16 am at 10:16 am #1998045
AAQ -“The argument for focusing on vaccines that we became a society of stupid. ”
It’s not just Stupid.
But I think it’s more likely to be something, in some places, just wickedness!
I remember that YWN had an article that the doc in Monsey tried personally to get HCQ from a pharmacy & the pharmacist denied filling it.
I’m not blaming the Pharmacy, but it looks like the NYS government required HCQ only for Lupus or Arthritis, or something similar.
This is Very Wrong.
Government should have No right to involve themselves with the Practice of Medicine, unless there’s a real or potential harm.
That doc was giving HCQ along with Zinc.
If a layman stopped a Doc from practicing medicine, he would be Criminally Charged.
So why Not a Government official?!?
Besides, I found Medical literature that says HCQ is effective alone for Covid 19 – taken right after onset of infection!
So the Liberal States that are in a tizzy about employee abuse (like Cuomo) – couldn’t care less about Deaths from Covid 19!August 9, 2021 11:34 am at 11:34 am #1998192
On July 27 the CDC released a new study showing Delta infection resulted in similarly high SARS-CoV-2 viral loads in vaccinated and unvaccinated people.August 9, 2021 11:34 am at 11:34 am #1998190
The CNBC reported on July 30th that 74% of people infected in Massachusetts Covid outbreak were fully vaccinated.August 9, 2021 12:07 pm at 12:07 pm #1998210
philosopher, how many vaccinated ended up in the hospital and how many died from it?August 9, 2021 2:57 pm at 2:57 pm #1998263
For that matter, how many were asymptomatic?August 9, 2021 3:06 pm at 3:06 pm #19982712scentsParticipant
“The CNBC reported on July 30th that 74% of people infected in Massachusetts Covid outbreak were fully vaccinated.”
Carrying the virus is not the same as being sick with the virus, most of those that were carriers were asymptomatic.August 9, 2021 3:06 pm at 3:06 pm #1998270
I just checked the numbers. Breakthrough cases were only 3% of those fully vaccinated. Nationwide, the percentage of breakthrough cases is less than .08% of those fully vaccinated. A little of 1% of those fully vaccinated who tested positive died. The vaccines work.August 9, 2021 3:09 pm at 3:09 pm #1998244
Reb Eliezer, first of all, my point here is that “vaccinated” people can spread the virus just as easily as unvaccinated people, with less likely spread from those who already have naturally developed antibodies after contracting the virus previously. So those who got the coronavirus shot should stop feeling so self-righteous for supposedly saving the world and stop bullying those who don’t want the so-called vaccine. These sham vaccines are not preventing the spread of the virus.
As far as these “vaccines” saving lives, for that you have to believe VAERS and the CDC to be entirely truthful. Which I do not believe they are. First the CDC claimed and misled people that the “vaccine” is 99% effective in preventing infections and spread of infections and the percentages keep on going down. I will also not get into VAERS numbers, the fake flu numbers as well as other major diseases dropping in unprecedented percentages which makes absolutely no sense while covid-19 numbers are “spiking”. As well as there being an average global death rate for 2020 despite millions of people dying of covid-19…The numbers do not add up.I Again, I’m not going into all of that, however I will again say that I do not believe any of that. At this point the covid-19 death rate is 1% and there are no studies at all how many of these were vaccinated. We do know that in Israel many of individuals who died of covid-19 were “vaccinated”. I would be surprised of CDC does a full investigation of how many people globally died from coronavirus after getting the shot. And formerly healthy individuals are complaining of serious side affects of this so-called “vaccination” but manufacturers are disregarding it with only myocarditis and mytosis being officially recognized as a potential serious medical condition that may develope in young people who got the mRNA coronavirus shot. As of yet, they are NO CONTROLLED STUDIES DONE AT ALL ON CELL BASED SHOTS so everyone will come to the conclusions based on whether they believe corrupt, inept governments and lying MSM or not.August 9, 2021 5:25 pm at 5:25 pm #1998325Resident MortalParticipant
Why was my previous post censored and not posted?
YesAugust 9, 2021 5:27 pm at 5:27 pm #1998305mentsch1Participant
The Cleveland clinic study from June supports your theory. Granted it doesn’t take Delta into account, but it’s reasonable to assume that you are no worse than a vaccinated person.
In addition, I believe Israeli policy recognizes this science and doesn’t require a vaccine for recovered patients.
In addition, I believe a poll of your friends will have similar results to mine. In almost all recovered patients, there was a reaction to the vaccine, with some reporting that it was worse than their initial symptoms to the virus. So a risk/benefit assessment must be made. If scientific studies do not show a need for the vaccine, why would the medical community push a procedure that carries with it side effects?August 9, 2021 5:37 pm at 5:37 pm #1998306mentsch1Participant
Israeli numbers are much more accurate
google breakthrough cases and vaccine efficacy against delta in Israel
You will see reputable sites quoting Pfizer as being as low as 39% effective against delta. which means that up to 61% of the cases being reported in Israel are in fully vaccinated patients.August 9, 2021 5:37 pm at 5:37 pm #1998324GadolhadorahParticipant
I give up….this debate is insanity. Clearly the vaccines work really well, albeit we don’t know exactly how well. C’v some of you will be arguing at the levayahs of your friends and family who are niftar from Covid as to whether they should have been vaccinated or their tragic loss should be quietly accepted as the outcome of hashgacha pratis. I hope all of you ultimately get vaccinated and stay healthy but I won’t be surprised if some continue their mindless anti-vax rants till the very end.August 9, 2021 5:38 pm at 5:38 pm #1998332
mentsch1: They’re pushing people to get a vaccine even if they previously recovered from COVID-19 for political reasons.August 9, 2021 5:38 pm at 5:38 pm #1998323
“NO CONTROLLED STUDIES DONE AT ALL ON CELL BASED SHOTS”
putting words in caps doesn’t make them true.
see for example :
Krissy K. Moehling, et al
A randomized controlled trial of antibody response to 2018–19 cell-based vs. egg-based quadrivalent inactivated influenza vaccine in children,
Vaccine, Volume 38, Issue 33, 2020, Pages 5171-5177,
Eun BW, et al
A Randomized, Double-blind, Active-controlled Phase III Trial of a Cell Culture-derived Quadrivalent Inactivated Influenza Vaccine in Healthy South Korean Children and Adolescents 6 Months to 18 Years of Age. Pediatr Infect Dis J. 2019 Sep;38(9):e209-e215.
Also you quoted CNBC ““The CNBC reported on July 30th that 74% of people infected in Massachusetts Covid outbreak were fully vaccinated.””
You accidently forgot to quote the more relevant part of the article:
“Roughly 97% of new hospitalizations and 99.5% of deaths in the U.S. are among unvaccinated individuals,”
Just to clarify 97% is not the same as all. Yes there are (relatively) few hospitalizations among the vaccinated. Nobody ever denies that. Nobody ever suggested the vaccine (or any vaccine) is 100% effective . In fact the opposite is true. Your comment helpfully points out the need for more to vaccinate. IT isnt just well You are vaccinated so, why do I have to be. Because, again the vaccine is not 100% effective. so the more vaccinated the better.August 9, 2021 6:18 pm at 6:18 pm #1998339
Thw military is deciding to vaccinate all its participants which employs 3 million people.August 9, 2021 7:29 pm at 7:29 pm #1998355Resident MortalParticipant
Answering yes to a why doesn’t answer the question. Please post what I wrote
If I wanted it posted I wouldn’t have deleted it.August 9, 2021 7:38 pm at 7:38 pm #1998364
>> The CNBC reported on July 30th that 74% of people infected in Massachusetts Covid outbreak were fully vaccinated.””
because the outbreak happened in a very vaccinated community where, I think, people were carded before – and when these vaccinated people decided that COVID is gone and they jammed in a one huge party. As Israeli study that I quoted showed – if vaccinated people keep to their four amot, they do not generate a new cluster, although they might get sick from unvaccinated. If they disregard all caution, then R0 grows over 1August 9, 2021 7:45 pm at 7:45 pm #1998374
What we have established is that vaccinated people often get COVID-19. Whereas people who perviously had COVID-19 rarely get it a second time.
As such, recovered unvaccinated people are much better off than vaccinated people. Nevertheless, for political reasons, they are trying to force vaccinations upon those who have already recovered from COVID-19.August 9, 2021 9:36 pm at 9:36 pm #1998394
Recovered unvaxxed people are not better off…look up long covid:
“Long COVID can affect nearly every organ system with sequelae including respiratory system disorders, nervous system and neurocognitive disorders, mental health disorders, metabolic disorders, cardiovascular disorders, gastrointestinal disorders, malaise, fatigue, musculoskeletal pain, and anemia”
Whereas i managed to avoid getting covid since i realized what was coming before purim last year and was only sore for a day after the shot…August 9, 2021 10:32 pm at 10:32 pm #1998402
ari: Long Covid doesn’t relate to the issue of unvaccinated recovered people vs vaccinated people. Nor to the issue of forcing recovered Covid people to get vaccinated.August 9, 2021 10:32 pm at 10:32 pm #1998398
What gets me is that Dr. Ditchek warned about covid before purim on this very site and if only its readers actually followed that warning we would have been able to prevent many deaths. Everyone would have looked up to the frum community as a role model. But no, we have the opposite reactionAugust 9, 2021 11:37 pm at 11:37 pm #1998410
Dr. Iwasaki explains:
How is the vaccine helping some long-haulers?
As many as 30 to 40% of those who get the vaccine have reported improvements to their symptoms. “I’ve heard from people who say they no longer have ‘brain fog,’ their gastrointestinal problems have gone away, or they stopped suffering from the shortness of breath they’ve been living with since being diagnosed with COVID-19,” says Iwasaki.August 9, 2021 11:38 pm at 11:38 pm #1998409user176Participant
All I know is I’ve seen plenty of articles about vaccinated people getting corona. I have yet to see an article about recovered people getting corona…August 10, 2021 9:20 am at 9:20 am #1998413
The fact is that other countries are accepting proof of having previously had COVID-19 as acceptable instead of getting vaccinated, for events that require one or the other.
Biden’s America, for political reasons, is not following that same policy.August 10, 2021 9:21 am at 9:21 am #1998414
.לא ראינו אינה ראייה
There are a number of articles online. Google “recovered people getting corona”.August 10, 2021 9:21 am at 9:21 am #1998430
Resident mortal, NYC is only making a recommendation. I guess it depends on how machmir one wants to be. In any case, I would not go by the People’s Republic of California.August 10, 2021 9:24 am at 9:24 am #1998441
Vaccines are supposed to give lasting immunity. When you get a polio or measles vaccine you don’t get polio or measles; that’s what vaccines are meant for, to prevent you from getting viruses or diseases, not to get jabs with a so-called “vaccine” but still have to socially distance and mask up indefinitely( not that I believe in masks) . A shot that you need to socially distance and wear masks indefinitely is not a vaccine in any capacity. Neither is it working if you need boosters every 2-3 months because the efficacy only last that long ( which I’m skeptical if it even lasts that long).
I have said previously and I say here again, that I believe that for the majority of people two jabs of these so-called vaccines won’t cause issues ( although I’m not sure about it long-term, I am also assuming that in the majority of people these fake “vaccines” will shed before causing serious problems) however if people continue getting “booster” shots it will be extremely dangerous for them. These are mRNAs, DNAs proteins, they travel all over the body to places you don’t want them in, to places the coronavirus doesn’t travel to. It is particularly dangerous for the elderly who have lower immune resistance and for young people causing heart and muscle inflammation.
It is important to build up the immune system naturally. If the government would have our best interests in mind they would promote healthy lifestyles, keeping gyms open, talking about excersize, fresh air, eating fresh fruits and vegetables; these are the most effective against coronavirus. Hygiene is equally important, people oftentimes people forget about this crucial aspect in staing healthy. Vitamins can also help boost the immune system.August 10, 2021 9:25 am at 9:25 am #1998445
One is protected when not vaccinated from being reinfected with the delta variant when recovered from delta variant but not from the alpha variant.August 10, 2021 10:29 am at 10:29 am #1998464
Reb Eliezer, the vaccines were developed before the existence of the Delpha variant. Having recovered from COVID-19 is a better protection from Delta than the vaccine.August 10, 2021 10:38 am at 10:38 am #1998465
“These are mRNAs … they travel all over the body to places you don’t want them in, to places the coronavirus doesn’t travel to”
do you have a source for the statement that the Vaccine’s mRNA travels to places that the viral mRNA doesn’t?August 10, 2021 11:15 am at 11:15 am #1998497
hml – They can’t be vaxed, but you selfish people who refuse to get the vaccination could pass on the virus to them. But what do you care? As long as you get to have your rights… what about my grandkids’ rights to be safe from disease?
please rethink this. I don’t disagree with you overall. I would never have believed there were actually people out there against masks and the vaccine just on the 3 year old tantrum of “don’t tell me what to do” Anyone around me who fights those preventions is doing so because of lack of data or presence of contradictory information and behavior (for instance people locking you down but partying maskless-obviously they don;t believe there is real danger despite their press releases)
I feel for your grandkids, If my sister was still alive she would be in the same situation, I often wonder how she would have dealt with this pandemic. But I want you to know that people really do care. There are people out there who are terrified of the vaccine for different, personal medical reasons. please don’t think that everyone out there is so selfish. And I wish them and you gezunt and arichas yomim.August 10, 2021 11:16 am at 11:16 am #1998494
Reb Eliezer, the vaccines were developed before the existence of the Delpha variant. Having recovered from COVID-19 is a better protection from Delta than the vaccine.
you are too smart not to know how stupid that comment is.
First is when people who play with computers think they have a handle on what the immune system is doing, and second is thinking that the scientists don’t allow for variants to the best of their ability. I personally don’t know how close they were able to get to protecting from the delta, but I do know that I don’t know. I remember hearing talk of it when it first appeared and I don’t know if there is even enough data yet, even anecdotally, to determine how it is working.August 10, 2021 12:05 pm at 12:05 pm #1998507
Syag, all I’m saying is that despite Delta arriving after both the vaccines and after most Covid recovered people had their recovery, between the two – having had COVID-19 previously is a better immunity than getting the vaccine.August 10, 2021 12:23 pm at 12:23 pm #1998524
ubiquitin, Professor Sucharit Bkhadi, MD and a number of his colleagues about the danger of cerebral vein thrombosis from coronavirus “vaccine” shots. They said that these gene-based injections can travel anywhere in the body including to the brain.August 10, 2021 12:26 pm at 12:26 pm #1998515
Talking about the Delta varient, most covid-19 tests do not read the Delta gemone sequence and all standard tests do not test for this varient. It is media and Fauxi propaganda that spreads talk about the Delta varient as if it’s a given fact that almost all cases today are the Delta varient. In any case, coronavirus cases today are definitely mutations from the original lab-created varient as coronavirus today is only 1% fatal compared to the 2% of last year.August 10, 2021 12:53 pm at 12:53 pm #1998536
philosopher, thanks for bringing your sources. Here is the info about the professor. I am not analyzing his science, but you may want to question his analytical abilities, see below. I would be interested what made you decide to rely on this particular expert v. the others?
Sucharit Bhakdi, a former professor of microbiology at the University of Mainz, made several antisemitic comments in an online video promoting his parliamentary candidacy for “Die Basis” — a political party founded during the pandemic by conspiracy theorists who charge that governments have deliberately misled their populations over both the nature of the virus and its cure.
“The people who fled this country, where there was arch evil, and founded their own country, they have turned their country into something that is even worse than [Nazi] Germany was,” .. “That’s the bad thing about Jews: They learn well,” he continued. “There is no people that learns better than they do. But they have now learned the evil — and implemented it. That is why Israel is now … a living hell.”August 10, 2021 12:54 pm at 12:54 pm #1998532
philosopher, this is called random sampling:
you select some of the tests and do additional analysis on them. Delta is 97% in US, 100% in UK, 91% in Israel, 68% in Canada. With such overwhelming numbers, hard to make a mistake.August 10, 2021 1:15 pm at 1:15 pm #1998531
ubiquitin, Professor Sucharit Bkhadi, MD and a number of his colleagues warned about the danger of cerebral vein thrombosis from coronavirus “vaccine” shots. They said that these gene-based injections cana travel anywhere in the body including to the brain.
According to WHO, from March 12- April 21 there were 12 reported cases in the US of cerebral venous sinus thrombosis caused by the the coronavirus shots. There were many cases reported in Europe. You may say that is a tiny percent of the many shots given, however there are undereported cases and we don’t know the long-term affects of these shots. In any case, as I stressed repeatedly, I think that generally the initial two shots will not adversely effect the majority of those who received the so-called vaccine, however I believe that “booster” shots, especially if they will continously be given every few months when the eficacy of these shots will wear off ( provided they had any efiacy to begin with…) will definitely cause serious medical issues in recipients.August 10, 2021 1:15 pm at 1:15 pm #1998549
Thanks for pointing that out about Bhagdi. Regardless, there is proof that the coronavirus shot can travel to the brain as we have seen cases around the world of cerebral vein thrombosis caused by the shot.August 10, 2021 1:31 pm at 1:31 pm #1998561
Philosopher- if you are anti vax as a rule, none of your arguments are going to mean much because you wouldn’t have been able to be objective in the first place. When someone’s mind is made up before the fact, their views are considered propoganda, not opinion.August 10, 2021 2:19 pm at 2:19 pm #1998567
“They said that these gene-based injections cana travel anywhere in the body including to the brain.”
Thanks, though this is nt what we are looking for. sure there are side effects reported from the vaccine. That was not the question. My question was regarding your surprising contention that vaccine mRNA travels to different parts of the body than viral mRNA.
There are a number of case reports on CVT due to the covid 19 virus see Tu TM, Goh C, Tan YK, et al. Cerebral Venous Thrombosis in Patients with COVID-19 Infection: a Case Series and Systematic Review. J Stroke Cerebrovasc Dis. 2020;29(12):105379.
So while there are documented reports of same after vaccine (you dont need to take the word of an anti-Semite , try to find real sources eg See I, Su JR, Lale A, et al. US Case Reports of Cerebral Venous Sinus Thrombosis With Thrombocytopenia After Ad26.COV2.S Vaccination, March 2 to April 21, 2021. JAMA. 2021;325(24):2448–2456.) This is NOT an example of vaccien mRNA traveling differently than viral mRNA
(note your premise is flawed I’m not sure that mRNA needs to travel to the spot where the thrombus forms, but that is beside the point)August 10, 2021 2:19 pm at 2:19 pm #1998568
Philoeopher, 12 in how many?August 10, 2021 3:26 pm at 3:26 pm #1998574
” I believe that…”
Yes I know what you believe. It is a free country you are free to believe whatever you want.
I don’t know enough about the long term effects of Covid vaccine boosters to have a strong opinion. but I am always interested in learnign more.
In your many posts on the subject you have made a number of surprising definitive statements as to how the vaccine works. Most (all?) of these are not grounded in reality or based on fact. Of course it is possible that I have it wrong, and that mRNA can somehow modify DNA, or that vaccien mRNA can travel to places viral mRNA cannot, that is why I ask for sources for these surprising contentions of yoursAugust 10, 2021 3:41 pm at 3:41 pm #1998637
User176 -“All I know is I’ve seen plenty of articles about vaccinated people getting corona. I have yet to see an article about recovered people getting corona”
Not only that you don’t read the News, but you don’t even read YWN News!
See this article from YWN News:
“The 2nd Time Was Worse,” Say Israelis Who Contracted COVID-19 Twice
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.