January 7, 2010 4:51 pm at 4:51 pm #591068YW Moderator-80Member
This was posed by oomis elsewhere, and chesedname requested that it be given it’s own topic.
Now here’s a question, and I am curious as to your responses. If you enter a contest from a Yeshivah or Shul at a Chinese Auction to win, let’s say for argument’s sake, $20,000 cash, do you think it’s ok for the institution to deduct a maaser from the amount and only pay out $18,000 to you(no small piece of change, of course)? Do you feel that they should or should not be expecting that maaser money to go back to their mossad? Should the winner be allowed to decide for himself where he prefers to give his maaser money, or should he fargin them the 10%? Is it ethical for them to deduct it in advance without asking, or is this the norm?January 7, 2010 4:57 pm at 4:57 pm #672701YW Moderator-80Member
answer from chesedname in the maaser thread:
they have no right to take anything from your winnings unless it was in the fine print, on a side note **** had an auction recently i took out a ck and was going to donate 360.00 but saw the fine print saying they can use my name or picture for advertisements (if i won) i for one didn’t like the idea and threw the ck away.January 7, 2010 5:01 pm at 5:01 pm #672702gavra_at_workParticipant
Second chesedname.January 7, 2010 5:07 pm at 5:07 pm #672703squeakParticipant
The gemara in Peschim says that a Levi taking maaser from produce is pritzus. Maaser is to be given.
The baal habayis has an exercisable right with maaser (and terumah) to give it to whom he wishes. This option is considered to have actual value in halacha – hence taking the option away is akin to stealing (though it may be less than the value of a perutah).January 7, 2010 6:27 pm at 6:27 pm #672704
thanks YW Moderator-80 for putting this under a new topic
ps i included the organizations name so they should know about it, although I understand why you took it out. if you have contact with them it would be beneficial to show them the post.January 7, 2010 7:57 pm at 7:57 pm #672705
I did not win any money (I wish!!!) 🙁
But – I know someone who did, and they received a check for the amount less 10%. When they asked why the deduction, they were told the school assumed they would WANT to donate maaser to them. They did not make an issue of it though they felt it had put them on the spot, but I was indignant because they support other institutions to whom they intended to give that maaser if they were to win (spread out to four places). I just wondered if this is typical.January 7, 2010 8:26 pm at 8:26 pm #672706
Thank you Mod 80. I meant to say that previously.January 7, 2010 9:33 pm at 9:33 pm #672707
do you work? have a family you take care of? if so you’re a winner in my eyes 🙂January 8, 2010 4:52 am at 4:52 am #672708
“do you work? have a family you take care of? if so you’re a winner in my eyes 🙂 “
Nice!January 8, 2010 2:21 pm at 2:21 pm #672709yiddeshekup101Participant
No one should assume where you want your masser money to go to or to assume that you are incapable of deducting the appropriate amount of masser yourself. The halachos are complicated….to assume that you need to give 10% of what you just won is also wrong.January 8, 2010 3:07 pm at 3:07 pm #672710arcParticipant
The lottery and most organizations give themselves the right to use your picture if you win.
I know someone that won a nice sum of money and they did alter his picture (added a long beard and changed his hair color).
As for Maaser they cant take it without permission but I feel a person should give it back to the organiztion they won from.
I once did work for a yeshiva and told them to deduct 10% from my pay.January 8, 2010 7:24 pm at 7:24 pm #672711
arc, that was your prerogative. What if you won the prize from a mossad whom you don’t specifically support in their beliefs, but wanted to go to the auction because it is a good one. For example, let’s say it is a mossad who is strongly anti-Zionist, and you are avid Hapoel Hamizrachi. But they have terrific prizes, the fee is very reasonable for the tickets, and you have nothing to do, so you go to the auction. When you find to your pleasant surprise that you win, do you really have a chiyuv to give more money to a place that supports beliefs so alien to your own – or do you not have a right to support whatever Yeshivahs, aniyim fund, cause, you espouse as your own?January 8, 2010 7:34 pm at 7:34 pm #672712HIEParticipant
another shailah, if i put in MAASER money to a raffle for a yeshiva or shul and i win, do i have to give masser again?January 10, 2010 12:36 pm at 12:36 pm #672713jphoneMember
I don’t know if this scenario is required under hilchos tzedaka, or not, but one of the more inspiring things I have ever seen involved a lady collecting outside a shul, and when the last person passed by her, she counted what she received, took out 10% and asked someone to put it in the pushka.January 10, 2010 2:22 pm at 2:22 pm #672714
GREAT story, Jphone.January 10, 2010 4:48 pm at 4:48 pm #672715
the halacha is clear, even someone collecting has to give masser. (you can give it to shimon and shimon gives you his masser from what he collected)January 10, 2010 6:27 pm at 6:27 pm #672716aries2756Participant
The fact that a person bought the raffle in the first place was their way of giving tzedakah to that mosad. When a person buys a raffle ticket (usually more than one) they don’t really expect to win, so their intention is usually to give tzedaka to that mosad. So no the mosad does not have a right to automatically assume anything. Unless it is written upfront in the rules of the raffle program, they have no right to deduct anything and by law have to remit the entire amount or be liable for fraud.
A person has the right to donate masser to whomever they choose. As a matter of fact they might have met aniyim at the auction that they decided to donate to if they happened to win, or they might have had intention of participating in the auction/raffle to begin with only to donate the money or the masser of the money to a certain individual or organization. So by taking the money out it is not only chutzpah it probably borders on gezeilah if not genaivah. The intention here is for the mosad to give and not to take!January 11, 2010 8:20 pm at 8:20 pm #672717arcParticipant
hashem is everywhere ask a local rabbi but if you use $100 from maaser and win $100K I cant see why you wouldnt have to give $10K.
Oomis it’s your preragotive to do what you want with the money but when you buy tickets from an organization you’re supporting them. If you’re that anti a place dont buy tickets. Say Neturah Karta (I figured they’ll go through the edit) has a raffle I would not buy a ticket because I am virulently anti them.January 12, 2010 10:17 pm at 10:17 pm #672718aries2756Participant
arc you said it yourself, when you “buy” the tickets you are supporting that organization. That doesn’t mean if you win, your intention is to continue that support with the your 10%. You could possibly choose to give part of it, half of it, all of it or none of it. It is not up to the organization to assume that. You might be supporting various institutions or have hakoras hatov to many. You might wish to support a local Rav, or a poor family that you wanted to help but couldn’t before. Your child might be very behind in tuition payment and they might be threatening to kick your grandchild out of yeshiva, that donation might be a gift from Hashem to help not only that child but all your children with tuition and/or mortgage payments.
I am sorry but I just don’t agree with you, it is utter chutzpah to make the assumption that anyone would WANT you to automatically deduct the maaser for yourself. And it is illegal. The organization should remit the entire amount and include an envelope in case they wish to make a contribution.January 12, 2010 10:31 pm at 10:31 pm #672719WolfishMusingsParticipant
Wow… something we all seemingly agree on! I haven’t seen one person that supports the right of the institution to deduct the 10%.
The WolfJanuary 13, 2010 12:27 am at 12:27 am #672720
Arc, if I bought a ticket from an organization, it does not mean I support that organization, but the truth is the ticket purchase itself is support, as the prizes are usually donated items. I might have bought the ticket because someone I KNOW suports that organization and solicited the ticket purchase. It does not mean I want to necessarily offer additional support (though I might choose to do so).
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